FSU Want to leave ACC and come to B1G

[MplsGopher]

The actions of:

one rogue professor (UNC) …
one rogue athletic trainer (MSU) …
one rogue football coach (PSU) …

means that cancer researchers at those schools should have their funding stripped??

Don’t be an asshat.

Sure, those things were horrible, but several tens of thousands of students and staff per year (several hundreds of thousands of alumni) had and continue to have absolutely nothing to do with those things.

 

[DrunkDons]

Bill Burr says otherwise

 

[MplsGopher]

I think you ought to obtain data on the incoming classes at UNC-Chapel Hill for the past several years. Take a look at the average high school class ranking (generally top 5%), number of high school AP courses taken by incoming students, number of valedictorians in class, test scores. UNC Chapel Hill and Virginia are about equal in academic rigor and are both highly regarded in academia; on par with Duke.

Correct. All three, like Stanford, are top notch as academic institutions and all nearly automatically qualify for the Big Ten in that sense.

Whether their athletics also belong is another matter.

 

[LongLiveMilesTarver]

I just watched this video and as much as college football sucks right now with the Transfer Portal, NIL, and everything else... man it is such a fun sport. Night games, fans, big game, intensity in the stands and on the field, the band, chants, cheerleaders... What an awesome sport!

I actually had the pleasure of attending this game. By far the best atmosphere of any sporting event I've ever attended and it was a great game to boot.

 

[swede2]

I can't believe anyone still buys into the idea that academics should play a roll in deciding who to associate with for athletic purposes.

 

[Taji34]

I can't believe anyone still buys into the idea that academics should play a roll in deciding who to associate with for athletic purposes.

Big Ten Academic Alliance - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Home - Big Ten Cancer Research Consortium

The Big Ten cancer centers united to transform … the conduct of cancer research through collaborative clinical trials and observational studies that seek to improve the lives of cancer patients in the diverse communities we serve by leveraging the scientific and clinical expertise of Big Ten...

bigtencrc.org

From https://btaa.org/research:

Big Ten Academic Alliance universities engage in $10 billion in funded research each year.

The research prestige of the B1G brings in more money per year than the media rights deal brings the conference over a 7 year period. To the existing member universities maintaining that prestige among the conference is a big deal. Sure, they could try to not allow future athletic members to join the academic alliance or cancer research consortium of they didn't meet the bar, but that's a can of worms that's easier left unopened.


I hate to break it to you, but these are college teams, tied to universities, after all. The presidents of the universities have a vote in conference matters for a reason.

 

[Goldmember]

I'm sure they don't want to pay the women's rowing team, but they sure as hell have the money to do so if it means a well-compensated football team.

They will have the lowest revenue athletics of any school in a P4 conference next year, and well into the future. Sure, they have some rich alumni. But that’s not how the proposed division will be funded.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I can't believe anyone still buys into the idea that academics should play a roll in deciding who to associate with for athletic purposes.

 

[mngolf]

Do you actually want FSU in the Big Ten? Or just for me to be wrong? Just looking for honesty.

It’s one thing for East-West regionalism to have been killed. It still actually aligned fairly well with state cultures.

If North-South regionalism is killed, then college football is dead. Blow all conferences up. Turn it into English soccer organization.

I don't agree. Once there is enough, it will regionalize again. And FSU is going somewhere. Why not be the one pulling the strings over SEC?

 

[DarthGopher]

It's your Hill to die on (pun intended). From the article:

In all, the report estimates, at least 3,100 students took the paper classes, but adds the number "very likely falls far short of the true number. For the first time since the scandal first came to light five years ago, UNC admitted that the wrongdoing went further than academics and involved its athletic programs. In fact, Folt said, "it was a university issue."

Bottomline. UNC's academics became a joke when this news broke, and then they tripled down on it by saying the option of not going to classes nor taking any tests applied to not just athletes, but to every student. It really doesn't matter if something like 20,000 students did it. The fact that the administration stated this was accepted policy for each and every UNC student shows how incredibly low they set the bar for "academic rigor". If I was a UNC grad, I'd be pissed off at what they did.

This is why I feel Minnesota should come out and say that Ganglehoff's writing services were technically available for any student, un-vacate 1997 and hang the banner back up. The moral high ground thing is noble, but clearly nobody else gives two shits. UNC is happy as can be with academic fraud 100x worse than some admin writing papers.

 

[swede2]

Big Ten Academic Alliance - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Home - Big Ten Cancer Research Consortium

The Big Ten cancer centers united to transform … the conduct of cancer research through collaborative clinical trials and observational studies that seek to improve the lives of cancer patients in the diverse communities we serve by leveraging the scientific and clinical expertise of Big Ten...

bigtencrc.org

From https://btaa.org/research:


The research prestige of the B1G brings in more money per year than the media rights deal brings the conference over a 7 year period. To the existing member universities maintaining that prestige among the conference is a big deal. Sure, they could try to not allow future athletic members to join the academic alliance or cancer research consortium of they didn't meet the bar, but that's a can of worms that's easier left unopened.


I hate to break it to you, but these are college teams, tied to universities, after all. The presidents of the universities have a vote in conference matters for a reason.

Did the WCHA somehow hinder the academic endeavors of the U? No. Grant administrators don't care about athletics. It's an artificial distinction and if the University or any Big 10 member university doesn't want to associate with an institution for research purposes, it need not let athletics dictate that affiliation.

Easy fix - FSU, your football players are not as smart as our rocket surgeon football players and thus, you are not part of the consortium.

MIT, your football players are not as fast and strong as our superhuman football players. You may join our research consortium but you will not join our athletic league.

It's a ridiculous suggestion that there should be some kind of academic purity among institutions when we're all here because of a few revenue sports, very few of the participants of which would attain admission to the institutions of our favorite leagues based on their own academic merits. Even before NIL and the portal era, the idea that our football, basketball and hockey players were " scholar athletes" was an antiquated and naive belief.

 

[fmlizard]

I have only lived in Big Ten states in my life (most of them) except I have also lived in Nebraska (I was born there I couldn't help it) and California. Those states have become Big Ten states.

I now live in Florida. Might this also become a Big Ten state? There's a Culver's just a few miles away.

 

[So_Money]

The actions of:

one rogue professor (UNC) …
one rogue athletic trainer (MSU) …
one rogue football coach (PSU) …

means that cancer researchers at those schools should have their funding stripped??

Don’t be an asshat.

Sure, those things were horrible, but several tens of thousands of students and staff per year (several hundreds of thousands of alumni) had and continue to have absolutely nothing to do with those things.

Absolutely, it was just the actions of ONE person in all of those instances...

 

[GVLCGopherFan]

A Condition of entry must be Men's and Women's Hockey, equipping both with new arenas.

A couple months ago I watched a buddy of mine play in Daytona Beach. The rink was in a shopping mall and the upper level served beer. Smelled like every other rink I’ve ever been in.

 

[howeda7]

 

[swede2]

FSU trustees approve lawsuit against ACC.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

$572 Million - that's getting up into Dr. Evil territory.

 

[swede2]

$572 Million - that's getting up into Dr. Evil territory.

From what I've been able to find, I don't think that that ($572,000,000 as an exist fee) is necessarily what was being represented. That appears to be more of a Twitter quick take. It appears to be more like a posturing related to the litigation in support of the legal theories that FSU will make in an attempt to break out of the ACC GOR.

Another interesting quick take out on Twitter is that while the ACC GOR runs to 2036, ESPN is allegedly only obligated to the ACC until or through 2027.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

From what I've been able to find, I don't think that that ($572,000,000 as an exist fee) is necessarily what was being represented. That appears to be more of a Twitter quick take. It appears to be more like a posturing related to the litigation in support of the legal theories that FSU will make in an attempt to break out of the ACC GOR.

Another interesting quick take out on Twitter is that while the ACC GOR runs to 2036, ESPN is allegedly only obligated to the ACC until or through 2027.

yeah, that makes sense - total "cost" as opposed to an exit fee. the number I've seen quoted several times is that the official 'exit fee' is $120-million. that is based on a formula for 3 times the annual conference pay-out.

--- I found a breakdown on the $572 million---

Florida State's lawyers and media consultants estimate that leaving the ACC now would cost the school $572 million: $429 million for the forfeiture of media rights through 2036 ($33 million for 13 years), $13 million for unreimbursed broadcast fees ($1 million for 13 years); and the exit fee of three times its annual conference revenue.

of course, some of those costs would be recapped because FSU would most likely receive more for its new media rights in the SEC or B1G. so the 'net' cost appears to be that $120-million.

 

[MplsGopher]

You don’t just directly go to a lawsuit like this. You attempt (ideally good-faith) negotiation and settlement before you resort to a lawsuit.

ESPN, via the ACC, essentially owns the rights to broadcast Florida State home games through the 2036 season. That’s the agreement that FSU signed with the ACC, specifically as a deterrent to teams leaving the conference.

ESPN and the ACC came up with a buy-out number. FSU decided that the costs of going to court were worth it for the long-shot, Hail Mary attempt that that number could be reduced or even eliminated.

I have exactly zero sympathy for them. This is the bed they wanted to lie down in. So go lie down in it.



They don’t belong in the Big Ten, and I don’t want them in. They aren’t welcome here.

If they want in the SEC badly enough, then they’ll have to pay the piper (ESPN).

And what would be their prize? Getting bashed in the skull on a yearly basis by the SEC programs? How often do you think FSU would ever win the SEC?

 

[MplsGopher]

yeah, that makes sense - total "cost" as opposed to an exit fee. the number I've seen quoted several times is that the official 'exit fee' is $120-million. that is based on a formula for 3 times the annual conference pay-out.

--- I found a breakdown on the $572 million---

Florida State's lawyers and media consultants estimate that leaving the ACC now would cost the school $572 million: $429 million for the forfeiture of media rights through 2036 ($33 million for 13 years), $13 million for unreimbursed broadcast fees ($1 million for 13 years); and the exit fee of three times its annual conference revenue.

of course, some of those costs would be recapped because FSU would most likely receive more for its new media rights in the SEC or B1G. so the 'net' cost appears to be that $120-million.

But the delta over those 13 years between the ACC and SEC (their only option) is probably around $50M per year, so clearly a massive net gain in their mind.

And ESPN pays in both cases. So clearly ESPN should try to force them to stay in the ACC, or otherwise ratchet the number up higher as the cost of entry to the SEC.

 

[MplsGopher]

It's a ridiculous suggestion that there should be some kind of academic purity among institutions when we're all here because of a few revenue sports, very few of the participants of which would attain admission to the institutions of our favorite leagues based on their own academic merits. Even before NIL and the portal era, the idea that our football, basketball and hockey players were " scholar athletes" was an antiquated and naive belief.

I understand this viewpoint. Understand the logic employed to arrive at it. The logic is valid. The viewpoint is valid. I even have some sympathy for the underlying motivation (to make the sports league the best, most competitive, and most valuable, purely in athletic terms with absolute disregard for all other aspects).

That’s the best I can do.

I cannot and will not abide this viewpoint.


Any new members to the Big Ten must be top academic research institutions in the country. Nothing less is acceptable.


To throw that baby out with the bathwater, and while we’re at it let’s destroy North-South regionalism, is exactly the death of college football.

Blow it up. Start over. Make it English soccer. Give it a new name.

 

[Sparlimb]

I understand this viewpoint. Understand the logic employed to arrive at it. The logic is valid. The viewpoint is valid. I even have some sympathy for the underlying motivation (to make the sports league the best, most competitive, and most valuable, purely in athletic terms with absolute disregard for all other aspects).

That’s the best I can do.

I cannot and will not abide this viewpoint.


Any new members to the Big Ten must be top academic research institutions in the country. Nothing less is acceptable.


To throw that baby out with the bathwater, and while we’re at it let’s destroy North-South regionalism, is exactly the death of college football.

Blow it up. Start over. Make it English soccer. Give it a new name.

That's just like, your opinion, man​

 

[howeda7]

I don't understand why they're so pressed on this over missing this year's Final Four when the issue goes away next year anyway. Move on. Going to the SEC to go 5-7 or B1G to go 7-5 won't make things better.

 

[MplsGopher]

I don't understand why they're so pressed on this over missing this year's Final Four when the issue goes away next year anyway. Move on. Going to the SEC to go 5-7 or B1G to go 7-5 won't make things better.

And it’s not like they’re actually suffering from lack of money. They do and will have all the NIL and other budget necessary to be nationally competitive in football.

It’s gotta be ego. That simple. Tired of feel like a step-child to Mississippi State because the conferences got so un-even in TV money, and this “perceived value”, so quickly.

 

[swede2]

I understand this viewpoint. Understand the logic employed to arrive at it. The logic is valid. The viewpoint is valid. I even have some sympathy for the underlying motivation (to make the sports league the best, most competitive, and most valuable, purely in athletic terms with absolute disregard for all other aspects).

That’s the best I can do.

I cannot and will not abide this viewpoint.


Any new members to the Big Ten must be top academic research institutions in the country. Nothing less is acceptable.


To throw that baby out with the bathwater, and while we’re at it let’s destroy North-South regionalism, is exactly the death of college football.

Blow it up. Start over. Make it English soccer. Give it a new name.

I'd much

I understand this viewpoint. Understand the logic employed to arrive at it. The logic is valid. The viewpoint is valid. I even have some sympathy for the underlying motivation (to make the sports league the best, most competitive, and most valuable, purely in athletic terms with absolute disregard for all other aspects).

That’s the best I can do.

I cannot and will not abide this viewpoint.


Any new members to the Big Ten must be top academic research institutions in the country. Nothing less is acceptable.


To throw that baby out with the bathwater, and while we’re at it let’s destroy North-South regionalism, is exactly the death of college football.

Blow it up. Start over. Make it English soccer. Give it a new name.

I'd be more than happy to go back to a time when the Big 10 consisted of 10 or 12 teams (although I generally like Nebraska as a regular conference foe), no NIL, penalty free transfers, and actual student athletes on the playing field. But the clock isn't turning back and any pretense that what we all enjoy has anything to do with academics is absurd. As far as expansion goes, I think that the larger the conference gets, the more likely we'll end up back with some kind of regional pod concept that most seem to prefer. And if the conference is going to expand, we might as well bring in teams with the most financial value and interest rather than schools with more lab rats. Georgia Tech isn't going to make the U of M athletic department more competitive on the field. But Clemson and FSU might pad the U of M athletic coffers.

 

[Sparlimb]

I did think its interesting that one of the complaints of FSU is even distribution of money. They don't like the ACC is doing that. Well that's a corner stone of the Big 10 and I don't see us agreeing to change that either. But maybe the extra 30 million a year they can earn in our conference is enough for them to not complain about that.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I'd much

I'd be more than happy to go back to a time when the Big 10 consisted of 10 or 12 teams (although I generally like Nebraska as a regular conference foe), no NIL, penalty free transfers, and actual student athletes on the playing field. But the clock isn't turning back and any pretense that what we all enjoy has anything to do with academics is absurd. As far as expansion goes, I think that the larger the conference gets, the more likely we'll end up back with some kind of regional pod concept that most seem to prefer. And if the conference is going to expand, we might as well bring in teams with the most financial value and interest rather than schools with more lab rats. Georgia Tech isn't going to make the U of M athletic department more competitive on the field. But Clemson and FSU might pad the U of M athletic coffers.

You have to go bigger to get smaller. FSU's lawsuit will take awhile to resolve. Possibly years. That's good for the Big Ten. It's not ready to absorb more teams. The conference needs two years to work out the logistics of travel, costs, and so forth of the new conference.

Once, that's ironed out, the conference will be ready to dismantle the ACC and incorporate more teams.

They should get to around 24. That will give them 4 divisions of 6 teams. Then you play an NFL type schedule. You play your division every year and then another division that rotates. The 4 division winners enter into the Big Ten playoff. The champion plays the SEC champion.

That's where this is going.

The Big Ten just needs time to figure out its current situation. It's not ready for the ACC yet.

 

[Some guy]

You don’t just directly go to a lawsuit like this. You attempt (ideally good-faith) negotiation and settlement before you resort to a lawsuit.

what color is the sky in your world ?

 

[MplsGopher]

SG says that Texas and OU sued the Big 12! Don’t believe what you read folks. It wasn’t really a negotiated buy out, it was a lawsuit!