Former Gopher coach Brian Anderson on Twitter: "Change the culture? Oh Please"

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Johnnyboy18 said:
Compared to who? The previous regime, thank you for proving my point Spoofin.
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Compared to no one. My point was, obviously, you can judge this (and any) coaching staff's success based on their wins & losses.
 


When judging this coming season, which teams on the schedule will close wins against them be counted as a loss?
 

GFBfan said:
When judging this coming season, which teams on the schedule will close wins against them be counted as a loss?
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Terrible teams who don't win a game. We also must not criticize a teams performance where they almost lose to a winless team. Any other rules?
 

Spoofin said:
Compared to no one. My point was, obviously, you can judge this (and any) coaching staff's success based on their wins & losses.
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OK, let's say Fleck wins six games next season that would be considered a disappointment to you. Because the team won more games under the previous regime, correct?
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
OK, let's say Fleck wins six games next season that would be considered a disappointment to you. Because the team won more games under the previous regime, correct?
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Winning 6 games next year would absolutely be a disappointment to me. Not because we won 9* in 2016 but because our team has the talent and schedule that winning more than six should happen. As a big anti-fleck guy I am obligated to expect him to be wildly successful and win lots of games. I hate him so much I think he could win us a rose bowl some day.


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Spoofin said:
Winning 6 games next year would absolutely be a disappointment to me. Not because we won 9* in 2016 but because our team has the talent and schedule that winning more than six should happen. As a big anti-fleck guy I am obligated to expect him to be wildly successful and win lots of games. I hate him so much I think he could win us a rose bowl some day.


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And if we lose a couple of linemen to injuries early, have QB struggles in the first half of the B1G season, beat Sconnie, and finish with 6 wins and a competitive loss in the bowl game, will you be disappointed? I think it's so tough to think in definitive circumstances about being disappointed vs being enthusiastic. I can imagine an 8 win scenario where I'd be disappointed and a 6 win that I'd be okay with and convinced we're going in the right direction.
 

GoldenGopherTilTheEnd said:
And if we lose a couple of linemen to injuries early, have QB struggles in the first half of the B1G season, beat Sconnie, and finish with 6 wins and a competitive loss in the bowl game, will you be disappointed? I think it's so tough to think in definitive circumstances about being disappointed vs being enthusiastic. I can imagine an 8 win scenario where I'd be disappointed and a 6 win that I'd be okay with and convinced we're going in the right direction.
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Fair enough. I suspect you are right there could be scenarios where 6 wins would not be a disappointment. At this point I'm thinking 6 would be, but there are twists and turns I don't know of yet. However, in no case does it have to be a comparison to pst coaches or is that the only reference that makes sense as was suggested.


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John Galt said:
I haven't heard one person state they don't have bigger expectations overall for Fleck. If Fleck doesn't improve upon Kill and Claeys winning percentage, it was a failed hire. Happy?

The point many have made is that there are some big gaps on the roster next year. Just because Claeys won 9 games in 2016 doesn't mean that he would have repeated that in 2017. And it doesn't mean hiring Fleck was a failure if he wins 7 or 8 next season.
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There has been at least one poster who said 5-7 wins a year over the next 5 years would be fine, and others who have posted that if Fleck consistently get 7-8 wins, they'd be satisfied. Pretty sure that's not what Coyle expected when he hired Fleck and bet $18M+ over the next 5 years. Add in the Athletes Village, and a consistent higher win total should be expected.

Have never said that I would consider Fleck a failure if Gophs don't win 8 regular season games this year. I will be disappointed, though. It also won't change my regular season win expectations for 2018 (9+) or 2019 (10+). I have said I think he actually has a chance to run the table in 2019. That's how much I want him to succeed.

Also have not brought up winning percentage, but since you did, I think most would consider it a failed hire if Fleck doesn't improve on that winning percentage (.520) over the 5 years of his initial contract. It would also be well below his WMU winning percentage.

He's a perceived better HC, in a better situation all around compared to WMU, so I find it curious.
 



Section2 said:
it's missing the point with Fleck's "change the culture". though I wouldn't expect BA to catch the nuance. It's not, we have bad kids doing bad things, needs to change. It's changing the whole program, the perception of the program, and doing things in a different way. Or as fleck says, it's about connecting people. Maybe not a huge change from Kill, but probably pretty big from (edit) Claeys.
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Flecks change the culture isn't Flecks. It's Fleck echoing our worthless AD's inability to just make the change. If Coyle had just said, we decided to make a change.....none of this would be discussed.

The ramifications of Coyle's ineptitude will hang with the program until he's gone.


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John Galt said:
Every coach tries to change the culture. No one says "I'm going to do everything just like my predecessor did." Sometimes the change is big, sometimes it's more subtle.

The part of the culture that has sucked is losing to Wisky for XX years in a row. The last staff lost to Wisky 6 years in a row. No excuses, that sucks and needs to change. So does losing recruits in December/January. And not getting the type of out-of-state recruits needed to be a top 25 team. The culture of recruiting already seems to be changing for the better. We'll see if it holds and if the wins follow.
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Recruiting changes when kids sign, not when they "commit". It looks like we've got some quality kids committed early, which is nice. When the sign in February is when I'll evaluate Fleck's recruiting ability. Things look better. So far this year. There was a whole lot of excitement around last years class and the changes in a short period of time that resulted in not much difference in the class other than the projected size (more kids). That was in a month of activity. I'm excited to see what happens, but nothing happens until next February ( unless they add the early signing period).


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caliGopher said:
Flecks change the culture isn't Flecks. It's Fleck echoing our worthless AD's inability to just make the change. If Coyle had just said, we decided to make a change.....none of this would be discussed.

The ramifications of Coyle's ineptitude will hang with the program until he's gone.


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i don't fully agree. Fleck is all about culture, he talks about it all the time. But I do agree that Coyle bungled the Claeys situation and firing.
 

caliGopher said:
Flecks change the culture isn't Flecks. It's Fleck echoing our worthless AD's inability to just make the change. If Coyle had just said, we decided to make a change.....none of this would be discussed.


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Just in case it is your ability to comprehend, here is what Fleck said at his introduction. Ya, Coyle could have handled things better with Claeys, but some people are so dug in on him, they just pull stuff out of their butt and act like they know what they're talking about. Even bolded it for you since you need the help.

“I am not here to change tradition,” Fleck said. ” ‘Ski-U-Mah’ is going to be all over the place. ‘Row the boat’ will be mixed (in). I am not here to change tradition. What I am here to do is change a culture. To change the movement, for us to create and experience things that University of Minnesota football has only dreamed of and hasn’t accomplished since the late ’60s.”


I'm very fine with a culture change that indicates we're done settling because we're Minnesota. I would hope an AD would have that vision to be the best.
 



Mulligan said:
Just in case it is your ability to comprehend, here is what Fleck said at his introduction. Ya, Coyle could have handled things better with Claeys, but some people are so dug in on him, they just pull stuff out of their butt and act like they know what they're talking about. Even bolded it for you since you need the help.

“I am not here to change tradition,” Fleck said. ” ‘Ski-U-Mah’ is going to be all over the place. ‘Row the boat’ will be mixed (in). I am not here to change tradition. What I am here to do is change a culture. To change the movement, for us to create and experience things that University of Minnesota football has only dreamed of and hasn’t accomplished since the late ’60s.”


I'm very fine with a culture change that indicates we're done settling because we're Minnesota. I would hope an AD would have that vision to be the best.
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CaliGopher may have been referring to the difference between what PJF has since your quote defined as his culture change vs what Coyle initially defined it as.


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GoldenGopherTilTheEnd said:
And if we lose a couple of linemen to injuries early, have QB struggles in the first half of the B1G season, beat Sconnie, and finish with 6 wins and a competitive loss in the bowl game, will you be disappointed? I think it's so tough to think in definitive circumstances about being disappointed vs being enthusiastic. I can imagine an 8 win scenario where I'd be disappointed and a 6 win that I'd be okay with and convinced we're going in the right direction.
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Most important factor in measuring success in this division.
 

Spoofin said:
CaliGopher may have been referring to the difference between what PJF has since your quote defined as his culture change vs what Coyle initially defined it as.


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"I determined that the football program must move in a new direction to address challenges in recruiting, ticket sales and the culture of the program. We need strong leadership to take Gopher football to the next level and address these challenges."

Must mean he suggested all the players are rapists.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
"I determined that the football program must move in a new direction to address challenges in recruiting, ticket sales and the culture of the program. We need strong leadership to take Gopher football to the next level and address these challenges."

Must mean he suggested all the players are rapists.
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Another meaningful post from you JB. We are so lucky to have you here. Listen to the PR and get back to me on what Coyle did/didn't mean.


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Spoofin said:
Another meaningful post from you JB. We are so lucky to have you here. Listen to the PR and get back to me on what Coyle did/didn't mean.


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“What I am trying to do is to build a culture of excellence. I’m trying to build a department,” he added. “… You can do things the right way, and you can win at the highest level, and you can graduate your students, and that’s what we’re going to strive for every day.”

“I determined that the football program must move in a new direction to address challenges in recruiting, ticket sales and the culture of the program,” Coyle said. “We need strong leadership to take Gopher football to the next level and address these challenges.”

These are the only times Coyle has mentioned culture. Clearly means once again that the problem is the culture of rape surrounding the football program and definitely not any problems on the field. Don't let blind hatred get in the way of facts Spoofin.
 

Mulligan said:
Just in case it is your ability to comprehend, here is what Fleck said at his introduction. Ya, Coyle could have handled things better with Claeys, but some people are so dug in on him, they just pull stuff out of their butt and act like they know what they're talking about. Even bolded it for you since you need the help.

“I am not here to change tradition,” Fleck said. ” ‘Ski-U-Mah’ is going to be all over the place. ‘Row the boat’ will be mixed (in). I am not here to change tradition. What I am here to do is change a culture. To change the movement, for us to create and experience things that University of Minnesota football has only dreamed of and hasn’t accomplished since the late ’60s.”


I'm very fine with a culture change that indicates we're done settling because we're Minnesota. I would hope an AD would have that vision to be the best.
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Yup. No one, ever, has ever, ever, ever, used the line their boss laid out in a press conference before this. Thanks for the "help".

A little "help" for you. An AD with a vision to be the best would be awesome. Besides having Fleck lined up before he fired Claeys, avoiding a drawn out fiasco on that front, what exactly has Mark Coyle done to share his vision? Have you spoken to him? Have you seen him? What "leadership" has he demonstrated to expect more? While the optics of firing Claeys would have been terrible without the tweet, why wasn't he willing to make the change until then (note: I'm going with reports that he did tell Claeys that he would coach this next season).

Wait, don't answer that. Not about this thread, and nothing you can say will change my mind. I know too much about what went on behind the scenes to ever see Coyle as anything more than a simpering fool that lacks character, integrity and morals. His mere presence undermined PJ Fleck's chances at success before he ever set foot on campus.

You can make my concerns about whatever you want to comfort yourself, but unless and until there is real change in the administration at the U, we are in the exact same place overall, maybe with more to lose this time around.
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
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“What I am trying to do is to build a culture of excellence. I’m trying to build a department,” he added. “… You can do things the right way, and you can win at the highest level, and you can graduate your students, and that’s what we’re going to strive for every day.”

“I determined that the football program must move in a new direction to address challenges in recruiting, ticket sales and the culture of the program,” Coyle said. “We need strong leadership to take Gopher football to the next level and address these challenges.”

These are the only times Coyle has mentioned culture. Clearly means once again that the problem is the culture of rape surrounding the football program and definitely not any problems on the field. Don't let blind hatred get in the way of facts Spoofin.
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Maybe not so clear? Check the stuff in Bold. Win at the highest level - we weren't there, but we did win 7.75 games in the past four years 8,8,6,9. That up from an average of 5.1 for the 24 years of prior coaching. While saying that's not good enough is fine, it certainly isn't that the wheels had fallen off, or that we weren't winning. We just weren't winning enough, or against the right teams. In the past 24 years we'd finished no higher than 4th in the conf. Under Kill and Claeys regime, we had a chance to win the west twice in the past four years. We didn't, and wanting to take the next step is fine, but you don't trash the program when you're program is in better shape on the field than it had been in 30 years. Graduate your students....ummm, we went to a bowl two years ago because of our APR. Which was ABYSMAL when Kill took over. Again, can we improve? Maybe. But was it a concern? no.

Clearly there was NOT a culture of rape on the team. More than 100 players were never accused of rape. There is nothing that suggests that was the case. There was an allegation of a single event involving 4 or 5 players. It could have also not been rape. I don't know and can't make a judgement on that. To say that it was clearly about a culture of rape is perhaps not so clear. Baylor, clearly had a culture of rape. We had one incident. One is too many, so I'm not excusing it, but there's a difference about an event and a culture of anything.

The underlined stuff?

Recruiting? Ticket sales? Leadership? All are relevant and debatable facts on why you'd make a change, although I'd still argue the ticket sales issues had more to do with MegaTongue than Claeys, there was no denying it was an issue, nor that Claeys did not have a personality that was going to change that with appearances and promotion of the program. And while I think questioning the leadership of Claeys comes with the territory with sending out his tweet is fair game, the complete and total lack of leadership displayed by Coyle from 9/2 until he finally fired Claeys removes his ability to question anyone's leadership.

And still, none of those were necessary jabs. All he had to do was say, we're making a change. It's really that simple. Let everyone assume what they want to assume. It was about the sexual assault, it was about the tweet, it was because he's fat, it's because he's as vanilla as they come in personality, whatever makes each individual happy. But Coyle let his ego get in the way and took pot shots at Claeys on the way out. Unnecessary. It lacks class. It lacks integrity. It shows Coyle's true colors.

Some are willing to give him a free pass because he hired Fleck. Some are not. Why? Because with someone who lacks a moral compass and will do anything to save his own hide, who works for a man who is even worse, I don't believe that Fleck will ever be safe if he does something, or one of his players does something that Coyle doesn't like and decides he needs a new guy, whether being fired is deserved or not. Coyle's shown he's willing to do it once. He'll do it again.
 

What's your basis for all the badmouthing of Kaler?
 




dpodoll68 said:
Great, thank you for the helpful and thorough explanation.

How would you know anything about his behavior in private?
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I've given several lengthy posts on his detestable behavior in public. His complete and total lack of leadership during the last season. How he nearly single handedly caused the players to go through with the boycott via his lack of leadership and outright lies to the media and his reprehensible behavior in speaking of those accused in the incident.

In private, I happen to know a few things from a Forrest Gump like twist of being in the right place at the right time (wrong place at the wrong time?) that if I laid out here would accomplish nothing.

I still believe we'll be bidding him adieu in a few months based on what I know/believe to be true.

If he stays, if Jesus himself came back to coach the program itself would rot from the inside based on the admins commitment to anything other than saving their own necks.

No one in the athletic department should feel good about their standing or their longevity as long as messrs Coyle and Kaler are in charge.

I don't know that they have an iota of integrity between them.


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I'm watching the Fred Glass press conference regarding the firing of Crean at IU and he handled the questions well (inclufpding clear discussions of the buyout!), wasn't clearly emotional, and was classy in discussing Crean, limiting it to discussion of on the court issues. Someone should send a link to MC on how to conduct one's self.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I'm watching the Fred Glass press conference regarding the firing of Crean at IU and he handled the questions well (inclufpding clear discussions of the buyout!), wasn't clearly emotional, and was classy in discussing Crean, limiting it to discussion of on the court issues. Someone should send a link to MC on how to conduct one's self.
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Maybe all this is true...I'm not one to watch an Indiana press conference. All I really care about, though, from an AD is who he hires. In my mind, Coyle's short-term legacy is based on Fleck. I will wait and see what happens, but is certainly seems like a homerun hire. His methods may be 'shady' but, hell, I welcome a shady AD - it gets us in the game.

As for what this thread's supposed to be about - Brian Anderson should have tweeted, "Develop a wide receiver? Oh Please" because apparently that wasn't on his short list of things to do.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I'm watching the Fred Glass press conference regarding the firing of Crean at IU and he handled the questions well (inclufpding clear discussions of the buyout!), wasn't clearly emotional, and was classy in discussing Crean, limiting it to discussion of on the court issues. Someone should send a link to MC on how to conduct one's self.
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And yet, the very first story I read about the firing is complaining about the AD.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/i...ng-of-tom-crean-was-a-surprise-183850550.html

Probably doesn't make a difference to Crean. He likely thinks he got dicked anyway.
It's a cutthroat business. I'm much less concerned about highly paid coaches and ADs than I am the student-athletes, who often don't know the landscape and pitfalls.
 

caliGopher said:
I've given several lengthy posts on his detestable behavior in public. His complete and total lack of leadership during the last season. How he nearly single handedly caused the players to go through with the boycott via his lack of leadership and outright lies to the media and his reprehensible behavior in speaking of those accused in the incident.

In private, I happen to know a few things from a Forrest Gump like twist of being in the right place at the right time (wrong place at the wrong time?) that if I laid out here would accomplish nothing.

I still believe we'll be bidding him adieu in a few months based on what I know/believe to be true.

If he stays, if Jesus himself came back to coach the program itself would rot from the inside based on the admins commitment to anything other than saving their own necks.

No one in the athletic department should feel good about their standing or their longevity as long as messrs Coyle and Kaler are in charge.

I don't know that they have an iota of integrity between them.
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Lol, you show up once or twice a month just to rip on Kaler and Coyle. You've been called out for flat out lying on here before.

But sure, you have 'inside information'
 

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