Florida State Academic Fraud Penalties.

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Dr.Don said:
Do some things sound familiar here??? Unfortunately, yes.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3958292
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What is not similar is FSU's violations extend to 10 sports. This is clearly a larger problem than what we had with the Clem Haskin's basketball team. I'm not sure how far reaching the FSU penalties are, but it will be interesting to compare their impact to what happened at Minnesota.
 

I agree with you on that summation....I will bet a dollar to a donut that FSU will NOT end up losing everything the way the Gophers did.
 


Is this a Note on the Bass Cleff? "G". Answer: Yes. You Pass.
 


Dr.Don said:
Do some things sound familiar here??? Unfortunately, yes.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3958292
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I'll bet you my entire stock in Bank of America that these tools (FSU) get NOTHING compared to what the gopher basketball program got.

Interesting that Bobby Bowden has to "forfeit" wins though...so now he won't be just one behind JoePa...I have to admit, if Bowden had nothing to do with that mess, it's B.S. to take away his wins (and I'm a JoePa fan!) - just like it was dumb to take away Gopher wins that they obviously obtained. I have videotapes with them winning games that they lost.

What ever came out of the Christian Laettner thing years back, where he did something wrong and there was rumor Duke would forfeit all the tournament games he played in (including championship).
 

It's not who ya know, it's who ya blow. Duke forfeit something???? Dastardly thought!
 

Are you kidding me?? 61 athletes across 10 different sports???:eek::eek::eek: This is insane.

In our case, we had a handful of athletes in one sport and that was horrible. Now, Florida State has upped the ante significantly. It will be interesting to see what all comes down from the NCAA here.

Obviously, FSU should be slapped around silly by the NCAA. Let's see if they actually have the courage to do it. Like Dr. Don has said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the NCAA caves and lets them off easy.

Having said that, it also wouldn't surprise me to see FSU get some pretty nasty penalties. In the past, the NCAA has really been unhappy with various levels of academic fraud. But this has to be among the most widespread and comprehensive academic fraud case I have seen. It just begs for FSU to be made an example of.
 

NCAA Death Penalty???? It's happened before.
 



MRJ said:
Are you kidding me?? 61 athletes across 10 different sports???:eek::eek::eek: This is insane.

In our case, we had a handful of athletes in one sport and that was horrible. Now, Florida State has upped the ante significantly. It will be interesting to see what all comes down from the NCAA here.

Obviously, FSU should be slapped around silly by the NCAA. Let's see if they actually have the courage to do it. Like Dr. Don has said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the NCAA caves and lets them off easy.

Having said that, it also wouldn't surprise me to see FSU get some pretty nasty penalties. In the past, the NCAA has really been unhappy with various levels of academic fraud. But this has to be among the most widespread and comprehensive academic fraud case I have seen. It just begs for FSU to be made an example of.
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Quoted from the article:

The football team will be limited to 83 total scholarships in 2008-09; 82 in 2009-10; and 84 in 2010-11; the maximum usually allowed by the NCAA is 85. Florida State self-imposed the loss of the two scholarships for 2008-09, and will self-impose the loss of three scholarships for 2009-10. The NCAA added an additional loss of scholarship from the maximum in 2010-11.

The committee stated this case was "extremely serious" because of the large number of student-athletes involved and the fact that academic fraud is considered by the committee to be among the most egregious of NCAA rules violations.

Florida State's probation extends through March 5, 2013.

I would definitely call this getting off easy! What a JOKE!!!!!
 

If the NCAA lets FSU this easy with the extent of the violations and the numbers of student/assletes, then the NCAA should put our final four season back on the books as official, and cause us to forfeit the 1st OOC game of that season. About the same.
 

GoldenGo4Fan said:
Quoted from the article:

The football team will be limited to 83 total scholarships in 2008-09; 82 in 2009-10; and 84 in 2010-11; the maximum usually allowed by the NCAA is 85. Florida State self-imposed the loss of the two scholarships for 2008-09, and will self-impose the loss of three scholarships for 2009-10. The NCAA added an additional loss of scholarship from the maximum in 2010-11.

The committee stated this case was "extremely serious" because of the large number of student-athletes involved and the fact that academic fraud is considered by the committee to be among the most egregious of NCAA rules violations.

Florida State's probation extends through March 5, 2013.

I would definitely call this getting off easy! What a JOKE!!!!!
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Yeah, if that's all they get, then this will be a travesty. So much for "extremely serious":rolleyes:

It goes to show how corrupt the NCAA really is when it comes to dealing with these issues.
 

MRJ said:
Yeah, if that's all they get, then this will be a travesty. So much for "extremely serious":rolleyes:

It goes to show how corrupt the NCAA really is when it comes to dealing with these issues.
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Hard to believe that fsu would only get that kind of penalty. Is the Big 10 different, when in comes to ncaa penalties?
 



GoldenGo4Fan said:
Quoted from the article:

The football team will be limited to 83 total scholarships in 2008-09; 82 in 2009-10; and 84 in 2010-11; the maximum usually allowed by the NCAA is 85. Florida State self-imposed the loss of the two scholarships for 2008-09, and will self-impose the loss of three scholarships for 2009-10. The NCAA added an additional loss of scholarship from the maximum in 2010-11.

The committee stated this case was "extremely serious" because of the large number of student-athletes involved and the fact that academic fraud is considered by the committee to be among the most egregious of NCAA rules violations.

Florida State's probation extends through March 5, 2013.
Click to expand...

Extremely serious must mean taking away a whopping 2-3% of football scholarships during a 3-year run. Wow, rough. How will Florida State ever do with only 82+ players?
 

There is a direct relationship between your school name and your maximum penalties fromt the NCAA. If you are a small no name school say North Texas you can expect death if you breathe wrong, mainly because they don't bring in any money. Now if you Indiana you can hire a known cheater, not pay enough attention to him, let him cheat again, then claim you didn't know that he was going to cheat again and get off relatively easy. But you say what about this season they suck, and yes the do, but that isn't the NCAA fault that is there own fault for hiring a cheater and letting him cheat.

Pretty much the more money you bring in/the more tradition you have/the bigger the name of the school the smaller the penalty you get.
 

cncmin said:
What ever came out of the Christian Laettner thing years back, where he did something wrong and there was rumor Duke would forfeit all the tournament games he played in (including championship).
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I don't know about Laettner, but there was a thing with Corey Maggette that flew under the radar because it was Duke. Maggette accepted money from a summer league coach the summer before he enrolled at Duke. That would have made him ineligible. Duke should have forfeited the Final Four the year Maggette played but didn't. Both the coach and Maggette said it was true so there wasn't much of an investigation. At the very least, Duke should have had to give back revenue. Here's a good article about it:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=dw-ncaafavorites&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
 

TruthTeller said:
Hard to believe that fsu would only get that kind of penalty. Is the Big 10 different, when in comes to ncaa penalties?
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To be perfectly honest, I don't have a clue. I was under the impression that the NCAA has rules and regulations to address all these situations and they revolve around interaction with the institution in question. In that respect, I don't think the conferences have any say in penalties for this kind of activity. I think it comes down to interaction between the school and the NCAA directly. But again, I could be wrong....
 

The size of the FSU problem is to the Gopher scandal as capital murder is to a parking ticket.
 

Don't you think it a little irresponsible to casually reference homicide when talking about intercollegiate athletics?
 

Until you can prove that FSU administration played a part in this, Clem-gate is worse, much worse. This appears to be a tutor helping them cheat. I suspect this happens all the time, at most NCAA schools.

Our Head basketball coach was involved and helping them cheat.
 

It reminds me of that old quote (I'm not sure from whom) when the NCAA was upset with Adolph Rupp's recruiting violations - "They're so mad at Kentucky they gave Cleveland State three more years probation."
 



Winnipegopher said:
Until you can prove that FSU administration played a part in this, Clem-gate is worse, much worse. This appears to be a tutor helping them cheat. I suspect this happens all the time, at most NCAA schools.

Our Head basketball coach was involved and helping them cheat.
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Must respectfully disagree. Yeah, we had a coach involved. But to suggest that our one-program academic fraud problem is MUCH worse than Florida State and their 61 athletes from 10 different sports??? Come on. You'll need to explain why you feel this way, because the sheer numbers in this case are simply appalling.
 

What puzzles and upsets me is the discrepency between the penalties...U of M had 4 or 5 involved from one sport committing academic fraud and got pounded over the head with a sledge hammer... FL State has 61 involved from 10 sports and got their wrists slapped with a wet noodle. I can only shake my head trying to make sense of nonsense.
 

My point is that a high-level representative of the university (Clem) was involved and in fact was proven to have orchestrated the cheating. FSU appears to have been one (was it only one? Seems like alot for one tutor) tutor acting on her own. If they can prove that FSU's AD and/or coaches knew about this and encouraged it then it becomes much worse.

FWIW, and I admit to being pretty cynical, I suspect a huge portion of the "tutoring" offered to NCAA athletes borders on cheating. I would also like to audit the course offerings of athletes- I suspect you find they all take courses with the same professors- professors known to be sympatheic to the athletic program.

While cynical, this doesn't really bother me. High level athletics (any sport that prepares athletes for professional competition) and high level academics (university level) should not be connected. I love NCAA sports but understand the contradiction of asking full time athletes to be students just so they are allowed to compete at the highest level available to them. The NCAA system works great for the fans, the athletes not so much.
 

Winnipegopher said:
My point is that a high-level representative of the university (Clem) was involved and in fact was proven to have orchestrated the cheating. FSU appears to have been one (was it only one? Seems like alot for one tutor) tutor acting on her own. If they can prove that FSU's AD and/or coaches knew about this and encouraged it then it becomes much worse.

FWIW, and I admit to being pretty cynical, I suspect a huge portion of the "tutoring" offered to NCAA athletes borders on cheating. I would also like to audit the course offerings of athletes- I suspect you find they all take courses with the same professors- professors known to be sympatheic to the athletic program.

While cynical, this doesn't really bother me. High level athletics (any sport that prepares athletes for professional competition) and high level academics (university level) should not be connected. I love NCAA sports but understand the contradiction of asking full time athletes to be students just so they are allowed to compete at the highest level available to them. The NCAA system works great for the fans, the athletes not so much.
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Thanks for clarifying. I guess if we delved into the FSU situation deeper, I suspect that there were at least a few staff members that also had full knowledge of what was going on in this case as well. The fact that this situation was as widespread as it was suggests, at least to me, that someone in a position of authority must have known more than the media or FSU is reporting. I simply can't see how it gets to this level without certain staff members also being aware of the cheating going on.

Certainly, those in the tutor center have a lot of answering to do. Either way, the fact that FSU got basically a "stern finger wagging" from the NCAA while we got absolutely killed is still laughable. The NCAA is what it is: A group of politicians who insure that certain programs stay competitive while offering others up as a sacrifice. They'll always be that way. In effect, money talks. The rest of us are screwed however. Otherwise, half the SEC would be on probation all the time.
 

I was just saying that currently this situation is not as bad as ours. I fully agree that if the same incident happened at FSU, they wouldn't face the same punishment that Minnesota got.

The NCAA needs periodic whipping boys and lower tier teams from BCS conferences fit the bill perfectly.

In some ways, Minnesota is the perfect whipping boy- Big Conference, major market, small fan base and hostile big city media. A school like Missouri at least has the fan base to protect it.
 

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