Fleck's Minnesota tenure

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dpodoll68

dpodoll68

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An important factor we're overlooking is that Fleck coached for two years under Jerry Kill at NIU. Since we all know that time spent as an assistant under Jerry Kill counts toward one's U of M head coaching tenure, the great news is that this will actually be Fleck's 3rd year as U of M head coach. We've already made it through the awkward transitional years and can really hit the ground running. Congratulations, everyone!
 

Claeys stans vs Fleck stans for the next two years can't wait!
 

The downside is that he is really enthusiastic and says things.... so he is also responsible for Brewster's years too ...
 

dpodoll68 said:
An important factor we're overlooking is that Fleck coached for two years under Jerry Kill at NIU. Since we all know that time spent as an assistant under Jerry Kill counts toward one's U of M head coaching tenure, the great news is that this will actually be Fleck's 3rd year as U of M head coach. We've already made it through the awkward transitional years and can really hit the ground running. Congratulations, everyone!
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Wow, what a dumb post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Claeys stans vs Fleck stans for the next two years can't wait!
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I don't know what this post means.

I'm a fan of both Claeys and Fleck, if that's what you were trying to say in whatever language you posted. I do think the drastic shift in attitudes re: W/L record since the changeover happened are quite hilarious, though.
 


dpodoll68 said:
I don't know what this post means.

I'm a fan of both Claeys and Fleck, if that's what you were trying to say in whatever language you posted. I do think the drastic shift in attitudes re: W/L record since the changeover happened are quite hilarious, though.
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That's what happens when the old coach has ten players suspended under his supervision.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
That's what happens when the old coach has ten players suspended under his supervision.
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So you're trying to say that people would've been cool with Claeys winning 6 games next year? Funny stuff!
 





dpodoll68 said:
An important factor we're overlooking is that Fleck coached for two years under Jerry Kill at NIU. Since we all know that time spent as an assistant under Jerry Kill counts toward one's U of M head coaching tenure, the great news is that this will actually be Fleck's 3rd year as U of M head coach. We've already made it through the awkward transitional years and can really hit the ground running. Congratulations, everyone!
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Unfortunately, it also means he was to blame for the QB situation last year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


dpodoll68 said:
So you're trying to say that people would've been cool with Claeys winning 6 games next year? Funny stuff!
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I don't think anybody will be "happy" with 6 wins next year, whether under Fleck or if it had happened under Claeys. What I will say is that I am OK if we take a small step back for a year or 2 if it means we win the Big 10 Championship in 3 or 4 years. I think that is the hope everyone has for Fleck and the concern most had for Claeys getting over that next hurdle.
 




dpodoll68 said:
I don't know what this post means.

I'm a fan of both Claeys and Fleck, if that's what you were trying to say in whatever language you posted. I do think the drastic shift in attitudes re: W/L record since the changeover happened are quite hilarious, though.
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Have you been seeing people drop the win total or increase?

I honestly don't recall seeing a lot of predictions for next year before Claeys was let go. I was personally thinking 7 wins next year if Claeys stayed (before the suspensions). With all the changes, I'm thinking 6 now.

I don't think we can say how changing OC every year under Brew was detrimental and not realize that this will be the 3rd different OC in 3 years. Plus the whole what happens to the 10 players question. Not to mention some graduations/transfers in key spots that there are at least questions on how they will be filled (QB, C, OT, WR, etc.). Again, the next man up may be even better than what we had, but there are certainly questions. In my mind, especially center and wide receiver. I have zero confidence any WR on the team can reliably catch a ball. Carter, Holland, Gentry, Still, Johnson, etc. have all looked like they have hands of stone at times over the last season(s).

Regarding your original post, I guess if you want call the Claeys regime a new regime from Kill you can. For me, when seven of the ten coaches (plus at least one grad assistant) didn't change, the overall philosophy didn't change, the head coach was the associate head coach and subbed for the previous head coach on multiple occasions, I think it's fair to consider it a continuation of the previous regime. I assume we'll agree to disagree. :)
 


i don't understand op! is his post mocking my side or the other side?
 

dpodoll68 said:
An important factor we're overlooking is that Fleck coached for two years under Jerry Kill at NIU. Since we all know that time spent as an assistant under Jerry Kill counts toward one's U of M head coaching tenure, the great news is that this will actually be Fleck's 3rd year as U of M head coach. We've already made it through the awkward transitional years and can really hit the ground running. Congratulations, everyone!
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Hold on....I think everyone is missing the key part of this post above....

I think dpodoll68 just made a joke......only possible explanation is that his account got hacked.
 

I'm more shocked at the number of stupid people who post on this board. I can't tell the difference between sarcasm and reality since some people are truly that dumb.
 

This isn't complicated stuff. And it's not Claeys vs. Fleck. Some of us just find it comical how the anti-Clays faction have suddenly developed a sense of what's reasonable as far as expectations for Fleck when no such reasonableness existed when Claeys was coaching. They were certain after one full year that Claeys was not the answer even though he probably posted the best first year record in Gopher history. Now they seem to be afraid of putting even modest expectations out for Fleck. And anyone who tries must be an anti-Fleck guy who is just trying to set him up for failure. What's funny is Fleck doesn't seem to be the type to shy away from high expectations - kind of one of the main selling points in hiring him. I didn't want to see Claeys go but I'm fine with Fleck. I want him to succeed. I'm just not cool with a restart where we step backward for one, two or however many years in the hope that he brings bigger and better things. It should become very clear very early if he's got us on the right track.
 


Old Goph said:
This isn't complicated stuff. And it's not Claeys vs. Fleck. Some of us just find it comical how the anti-Clays faction have suddenly developed a sense of what's reasonable as far as expectations for Fleck when no such reasonableness existed when Claeys was coaching. They were certain after one full year that Claeys was not the answer even though he probably posted the best first year record in Gopher history. Now they seem to be afraid of putting even modest expectations out for Fleck. And anyone who tries must be an anti-Fleck guy who is just trying to set him up for failure. What's funny is Fleck doesn't seem to be the type to shy away from high expectations - kind of one of the main selling points in hiring him. I didn't want to see Claeys go but I'm fine with Fleck. I want him to succeed. I'm just not cool with a restart where we step backward for one, two or however many years in the hope that he brings bigger and better things. It should become very clear very early if he's got us on the right track.
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I expect the gophers to win 6 next year. That's not trying to set a bar low or high. That's how many games I think they win.

Whether that's a success or failure is up for debate, but people need to be careful making blanket statements about how expecting a pretty average year means you're trying to set low expectations. in some cases it just means you think they'll win that many games.



I'd say 6 wins wouldn't be a terrible year, nor would it be anything to write home about. 6 regular season wins is my guess as to how many they win. If TC was still the coach, I'd expect them to win 6 next year.
 

Some guy said:
I expect the gophers to win 6 next year. That's not trying to set a bar low or high. That's how many games I think they win.

Whether that's a success or failure is up for debate, but people need to be careful making blanket statements about how expecting a pretty average year means you're trying to set low expectations. in some cases it just means you think they'll win that many games.



I'd say 6 wins wouldn't be a terrible year, nor would it be anything to write home about. 6 regular season wins is my guess as to how many they win. If TC was still the coach, I'd expect them to win 6 next year.
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Some of what you say is true, but if Claeys had stayed and won 6 games next year you would not be reading threads filled with patience and understanding. That is a certainty.
 

Old Goph said:
Some of what you say is true, but if Claeys had stayed and won 6 games next year you would not be reading threads filled with patience and understanding. That is a certainty.
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True. But SOME would have patience and understanding.


Likewise, while the team is going 6-6 next year there will be some that will insult fleck and some that have patience.





I personally thought the U of M had to make a long term decision on TC. If they gave him a one year extension there would be speculation all year about his job. In my opinion a one year extension would've been the worst thing they could've done. They either needed to give him a real long term deal that ended speculation or move on.

I personally think they made the right choice as I think 2016 was as good as TC was going to be able to make the program. I may have been wrong about that, but that was my opinion.

If he had been brought back with a one year deal, I think the team would've gone 6-6 next year.....speculation about his job would have ran rampant all year and undermined his ability to succeed long term because of recruiting, lack of momentum, and all of the questions constantly undermining him.

If they had given him a long term extension I think they'd have gone 6-6 next year but with no speculation he may have had a chance to exceed 2016s performance in 2018 or 2019. I don't think he would have done better than 2016, but again I may be wrong about that.



I am just happy the university didn't punt. They made a decision and went and got their guy. I expect the team to go 6-6 next year. If they do better than that I'll be surprised. If they do worse than that I'll be disappointed. Even if they went 9-4 or 4-8 next year...the years Fleck will and should be judged for will be 2018, 2019, and 2020. Hopefully fleck is better than Claeys. Nobody will really know for a couple of years whether or not good decisions were made.
 

Wow...threads like this seem to bring out the worst of people. Many dumb posts.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
Have you been seeing people drop the win total or increase?

I honestly don't recall seeing a lot of predictions for next year before Claeys was let go. I was personally thinking 7 wins next year if Claeys stayed (before the suspensions). With all the changes, I'm thinking 6 now.

I don't think we can say how changing OC every year under Brew was detrimental and not realize that this will be the 3rd different OC in 3 years. Plus the whole what happens to the 10 players question. Not to mention some graduations/transfers in key spots that there are at least questions on how they will be filled (QB, C, OT, WR, etc.). Again, the next man up may be even better than what we had, but there are certainly questions. In my mind, especially center and wide receiver. I have zero confidence any WR on the team can reliably catch a ball. Carter, Holland, Gentry, Still, Johnson, etc. have all looked like they have hands of stone at times over the last season(s).

:)
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Now, I have been trying to tell prexy k and coyles what a BAD thing it would be to give the 3rd, 4th & 5th year players their THIRD head coach in the past TWO seasons. However, they ignored me and even upped the ante by bringing in a whole new staff and systems this time around. They are apparently doing Federal Research on lack of continuity in the coaching ranks and how it impacts Big Ten West Division Football Players. It seems to be a thing in the West Division...wisky, Minnesota, Nebraska, Purdue and Illinois have all been playing "musical coaches..." ever since Nebby ditched and threw Bo under the buss. Minnesota has managed to put the players through the MOST chaotic, emotional and traumatic changes. I believe the 3rd, 4th & 5th year players MUST be suffering from PTCCS (Post Traumatic Coaching Change Syndrom) by now. The new slogan should be to promise new recruits that IF they sign on with Minnesota they will learn and experience the GREATEST SURVEY of coaching techniques in major college football. Way to go prexy k and coyle. So, by ALL means...make LOTS of excuses for pj, our poor 3 1/2 million dollar a year coach...with his 3 1/2 million dollar a year staff. Probably, the program is set back at least five seasons after all this change. Now even the 2nd year players have been displaced and abandoned by the administration that constantly stirs things up with the coaches in the football program.


If you cave in and say you went from thinking seven wins for Clayes...and six wins for the old fleckerhead, where will it EVER end? If you can make a case for six wins next year...with a case of bad luck, suddenly you would be ok with five wins next season. IF fleck has a step back for a year or two, he will be on such a hot seat going into his third season that he may never be able to recover.

Sometimes I fear that his 2016 season in KZOO may have burned the poor guy out. His mantra sounds kind of old and tired. I just don't know how well that oar or paddle routine will play in the Big City. Elite sounds good if you stay undefeated. The ooc portion of the schedule should be good for that, but I am not so sure about the 9 game Big Ten Schedule.

I'm probably just feeling kind of "snake-bit..." I unfortunately have seen entirely too many football coaches have their first few seasons here. Usually after one or two you pretty much know how the rest of the story will end. Fleckerhead had a season to remember back in KZOO last year. He'll really be bumming if he takes a step or three back in 2017.
 

Some guy said:
I'd say 6 wins wouldn't be a terrible year, nor would it be anything to write home about. 6 regular season wins is my guess as to how many they win. If TC was still the coach, I'd expect them to win 6 next year.
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I don't think this particular argument is really aimed at people like you then. However, there are a significant number of people who were in the anti-Claeys camp that weren't impressed with the Gophers winning 8 games last season under Claeys, and made arguments like "yeah, but it was a soft 8-4".

I disagree with you, but I can't argue the stance "I don't think Claeys was the long term solution and I prefer Fleck". I think the back and forth comes in when people go to great lengths to downplay a 9-4 team, think we hired a better coach and expect us to win 5-6 games next season. That is logically fallacy under attack here.

As far as your stance, I disagree with it, but I don't think it's illogical. I doubt Dpo would either.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't think this particular argument is really aimed at people like you then. However, there are a significant number of people who were in the anti-Claeys camp that weren't impressed with the Gophers winning 8 games last season under Claeys, and made arguments like "yeah, but it was a soft 8-4".

I disagree with you, but I can't argue the stance "I don't think Claeys was the long term solution and I prefer Fleck". I think the back and forth comes in when people go to great lengths to downplay a 9-4 team, think we hired a better coach and expect us to win 5-6 games next season. That is logically fallacy under attack here.

As far as your stance, I disagree with it, but I don't think it's illogical. I doubt Dpo would either.
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But the obverse is somewhat true as well. There is a lot of revisionism on the 9-4 season (loss to Iowa, blowing half-time leads, squeaker against Rutgers, etc.) because many of the same people that are hailing it now seemed far from satisfied when it was happening.
 

I think recruiting has a lot to do with perception. A lot of fans were concerned that TC couldn't recruit and that the program would just sort of gradually trend downward. Is that fair? Probably not, but recruiting can make perception different. A 6-6 season next year with a really poor recruiting class looks different than a 6-6 season with a great recruiting class coming in. A 6-6 season with several of the new players recruited by Fleck making significant contributions looks different than a 6-6 season with no new guys making significant contributions.

It all needs to play out, but I think the recruiting energy is already making some folks optimistic. Will it be Brew part 2 or something else? We don't know. I am a TC fan and did not want him fired but I am a Gopher fan so I will jump on the boat and grab an oar.
 

rugger14 said:
I think recruiting has a lot to do with perception. A lot of fans were concerned that TC couldn't recruit and that the program would just sort of gradually trend downward. Is that fair? Probably not, but recruiting can make perception different. A 6-6 season next year with a really poor recruiting class looks different than a 6-6 season with a great recruiting class coming in. A 6-6 season with several of the new players recruited by Fleck making significant contributions looks different than a 6-6 season with no new guys making significant contributions.

It all needs to play out, but I think the recruiting energy is already making some folks optimistic. Will it be Brew part 2 or something else? We don't know. I am a TC fan and did not want him fired but I am a Gopher fan so I will jump on the boat and grab an oar.
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Agree!
I believe that TC and Fleck would do about the same with the same recruits but I would have to put Fleck ahead of TC when it comes to recruiting. That is my thoughts the difference is between thinking the "middle" and "top" of the BTN. However only time will tell, so I have to say "Row the boat, Fleck!"
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
Have you been seeing people drop the win total or increase?

I honestly don't recall seeing a lot of predictions for next year before Claeys was let go. I was personally thinking 7 wins next year if Claeys stayed (before the suspensions). With all the changes, I'm thinking 6 now.

I don't think we can say how changing OC every year under Brew was detrimental and not realize that this will be the 3rd different OC in 3 years. Plus the whole what happens to the 10 players question. Not to mention some graduations/transfers in key spots that there are at least questions on how they will be filled (QB, C, OT, WR, etc.). Again, the next man up may be even better than what we had, but there are certainly questions. In my mind, especially center and wide receiver. I have zero confidence any WR on the team can reliably catch a ball. Carter, Holland, Gentry, Still, Johnson, etc. have all looked like they have hands of stone at times over the last season(s).

Regarding your original post, I guess if you want call the Claeys regime a new regime from Kill you can. For me, when seven of the ten coaches (plus at least one grad assistant) didn't change, the overall philosophy didn't change, the head coach was the associate head coach and subbed for the previous head coach on multiple occasions, I think it's fair to consider it a continuation of the previous regime. I assume we'll agree to disagree. :)
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I'm excited about Fleck's potential and will always be cheering for Gopher football regardless of the coach. But your argument is a bit flawed. All the coaching stability was on the defensive side of the ball. One could argue our defense was championship caliber last year. All the coaching transition was on the offensive side of the ball. One which our new head coach had no control over until this season.
 

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