Fleck, who switched jobs 2 yrs after extension, thinks society has commitment problem

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MNVCGUY said:
A coach leaving one job for another is similar to a player transferring from one school to another. A verbal "commitment" on the other hand has nothing backing it other then the word of the player. There is no contract, no buyout, no scholarship.....a player can back out of a verbal at anytime with no real negative repercussions.

If a coach wants to leave for another school there is typically a buyout involved. If a player wants to transfer they usually have to sit out a year. Coach can get fired at any time by the university, regardless of how many years they have on their contract. In other words, a coach leaving for another school is very different then a recruit committing and then decommitting.

Fleck wants his verbal commitments to come from players that are truly committed and ready to shut down recruiting. He doesn't want guys that are unsure about where they want to go to commit just to hold their spot while they hunt for better/different offers.
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Bobby Bowden was fond of saying that he loved when players he was recruiting committed to another school. It just showed him who his main competition was.
 


Lots of posts explaining why it is OK for a coach to break his commitment. Honestly, I don’t see anyone disagreeing. The rub is someone who has done so to be preaching to others about how they shouldn’t.


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When I think of a societal commitment issue I lean more towards family relationships (including marital issues and abandonment of the family unit - for at times poor, immature, or selfish reasons) and towards more esoteric things like the “social contract” between employers and workers (both abandon the other without notice at the times).

Under many cirmcumstances exploring one’s options without the partner knowing about isn’t that big of a deal - as repeated ad nauseum most people wothout binding legal commitments are looking around and while sometimes this is looked askance at (eg cheating on a girlfriend prior to officially pulling the plug) it’s not necessarily the mark of a sociopath, or worthy of the same scarlet letters as breaking a legal or religious binding commitment. It’s not even as bad as impugning the character of a former staff to make oneself look better.
 



Fleck committed to accomplishing things at Western Michigan that hadn't been done before. He followed through on that commitment and then moved onto a better opportunity. That's much different than committing to something, then de-committing before accomplishing anything, or giving up when things don't work out in your favor.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Fleck committed to accomplishing things at Western Michigan that hadn't been done before. He followed through on that commitment and then moved onto a better opportunity. That's much different than committing to something, then de-committing before accomplishing anything, or giving up when things don't work out in your favor.
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That is pretty subjective standard.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Fleck committed to accomplishing things at Western Michigan that hadn't been done before. He followed through on that commitment and then moved onto a better opportunity. That's much different than committing to something, then de-committing before accomplishing anything, or giving up when things don't work out in your favor.
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How about when he left his teaching career? IIRC, that wasn’t in the summer as he was only a teacher for a very short period.

How about when he left the NIU OC position after one day?

Are these scenarios much different? Doesn’t seem to me he accomplished much at either of these jobs before leaving.


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It's obviously hypocritical for someone who leaves his job for better opportunities to preach about commitment issues when players leave for better opportunities. Fleck isn't alone in that hypocrisy, you see that mindset throughout the NCAA.

Personally, I don't blame a coach for taking better jobs and I don't blame players for transferring/backing out of verbal commits. I kind of agree with PE, those aren't the sort of social commitment issues that concern me at all.
 


A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I'm not a fan of that standard, but his accomplishments ate WMU aren't subjective. He accomplished a lot.
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I think he did too, but a recruit would argue that he accomplished a lot to receive an Ohio State offer.

And like I said before I think both are well within their rights to pursue the better situation for them.
 

WoodburyTim said:
I think he did too, but a recruit would argue that he accomplished a lot to receive an Ohio State offer.

And like I said before I think both are well within their rights to pursue the better situation for them.
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I think GopherWeatherGuy means he accomplished a lot at the place he committed to.
 



If you want 100% truth from a person, go to your local clergy person.
They will tell you all kinds of things and they never break step with what they preach.

This is a football coach.
 

Face The Facts said:
If you want 100% truth from a person, go to your local clergy person.
They will tell you all kinds of things and they never break step with what they preach.

This is a football coach.
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No one asked him to get on his soapbox about a commitment problem in society. He did that on his own and people should raise their eyebrows at it.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I think GopherWeatherGuy means he accomplished a lot at the place he committed to.
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Sure, but only in the one place mentioned. Not in all places. GWG forgot those other examples.

Also, I still don’t see anyone condemning PJ for his lack of commitment - not sure why you keep defending it - the issue is someone who has lacked an ability to honor his commitments preaching to others about how they should honor their commitments. Do as I say, not as I do.....

He also appears to lack self awareness.


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Look - I think every D1 coach would love to have every single recruit honor their verbal commitment. That makes things easier for the coach. they wouldn't have to worry about keeping kids committed, or having to go out and re-recruit positions if a kid de-commits.

But, in today's climate, that's just not going to happen. kids de-commit all the time. it's going to happen. and if it makes life a little more difficult for the coach - well, that's why they make the 7-figure salaries.

as far as the coach's side of it - yeah, coaches leave jobs where they're under contract. if we're being fair - coaches can get fired with years remaining on their contract. So, if they have a chance to improve their situation, I can't begrudge a guy for taking advantage of an opportunity.

I would just hope that everyone is honest about it. If you're going to point fingers at the coach for leaving, then you also have to point figures at players who de-commit, or transfer, in search of a better situation.

in the end, it's every man for himself (and God against all........obscure movie reference).
 

I am shocked that something a football coach says can be interpreted as inconsistent with something that happened in his past.

That's why when I listen to anyone talking about football commitments, I only pay attention to our local Priest or Pastor because they are the only ones who preach and do not remain consistent to what they preach. What they lack in football knowledge, they make up for in truth and consistency.
 

Face The Facts said:
I am shocked that something a football coach says can be interpreted as inconsistent with something that happened in his past.

That's why when I listen to anyone talking about football commitments, I only pay attention to our local Priest or Pastor because they are the only ones who preach and do not remain consistent to what they preach. What they lack in football knowledge, they make up for in truth and consistency.
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Are you drunk?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
No one asked him to get on his soapbox about a commitment problem in society. He did that on his own and people should raise their eyebrows at it.
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It is amazing how bent out of shape some people get when Fleck's hypocrisy is pointed out.
 


bleedsmaroonandgold said:
It is amazing how bent out of shape some people get when Fleck's hypocrisy is pointed out.
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It’s amazing how bent out of shape some of you get and lengths you go to trying to find a gotcha moment with him.

The majority of what he says is meaningless yet some of you act as if its personal.
 

scools12 said:
It’s amazing how bent out of shape some of you get and lengths you go to trying to find a gotcha moment with him.

The majority of what he says is meaningless yet some of you act as if its personal.
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It's not with him. It's the hypocrisy in all of college sports. He chose to go on a soapbox about it and his hypocrisy should have smacked any sensible person in the face.

I don't take it personally, it's just hypocritical.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
It's not with him. It's the hypocrisy in all of college sports. He chose to go on a soapbox about it and his hypocrisy should have smacked any sensible person in the face.

I don't take it personally, it's just hypocritical.
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I'm amazed at what some people consider a soapbox.
 


scools12 said:
It’s amazing how bent out of shape some of you get <b>and lengths you go to trying to find a gotcha moment with him. </b>

The majority of what he says is meaningless yet some of you act as if its personal.
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What lengths is that? PJ makes it so easy.

#Paycut, #SchoolTeacher, #4of5, #9Srs, #2ndYoungest, #Commitment, ........


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Spoofin said:
What lengths is that? PJ makes it so easy.

#Paycut, #SchoolTeacher, #4of5, #9Srs, #2ndYoungest, #Commitment, ........


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King of the "too's"...
 

Spoofin said:
What lengths is that? PJ makes it so easy.

#Paycut, #SchoolTeacher, #4of5, #9Srs, #2ndYoungest, #Commitment, ........


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A college football coach bothers you this much that you actually keep a running tally of the number of times he has personally offended you.

But as another poster has pointed out you are on a crusade.




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scools12 said:
A college football coach bothers you this much that you actually keep a running tally of the number of times he has personally offended you.

But as another poster has pointed out you are on a crusade.

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LOL. PJ is a windbag. Spin it however you want.


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scools12 said:
A college football coach bothers you this much that you actually keep a running tally of the number of times he has personally offended you.

But as another poster has pointed out you are on a crusade.




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Crusade has been going on for two years now, you'd think he'd stop eventually.
 

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