Fleck Playing for Field Goals Lowers Morale

jfgopher83

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I have never seen a football coach at any level at the end of the half in the red zone with plenty of time on the clock to score a touchdown consistently play for field goals like Fleck. Doesn't he even consider the ramifications of that no confidence message to his players?
 

I have never seen a football coach at any level at the end of the half in the red zone with plenty of time on the clock to score a touchdown consistently play for field goals like Fleck. Doesn't he even consider the ramifications of that no confidence message to his players?
Also, I find the "you need to take the 3 because you can't risk coming away with 0 in a low scoring game argument" strange. If points are at a premium, it also seems like you can afford to pass up chances to get 7 when they present themselves.
 





He was afraid we would get sacked and knocked out of field goal range. We were at the 15. I mean…..

Can you imagine being a senior and not having beaten Iowa in your career and your coach has you playing for a field goal at the end of the first half?
Honestly, I don’t think he fears the sack and longer FG attempt. He fears the INT. He just doesn’t have confidence in this year’s passing game. Might be personnel, might be scheme, might be both. But it is clear that this year (and in 2020) we are not taking many reasonable opportunities to swing hard and deliver a knockout punch.
 
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Honestly, I don’t think he fears the sack and longer FG attempt. He fears the INT. He just doesn’t have confidence in this year’s passing game. Might be personnel, might be scheme, might be both. But it is clear that this year (and in 2020) we are not taking many reasonable opportunities to swing hard and deliver a knockout punch.
Which is dumb, Morgan has never been a turnover machine even in his bad times. Also it’s not like we have a kicker that is automatic. There are plenty of low risk pass plays you can dial up. Throw a fade to the back of the end zone or something.
 

Honestly, I don’t think he fears the sack and longer FG attempt. He fears the INT. He just doesn’t have confidence in this year’s passing game. Might be personnel, might be scheme, might be both. But it is clear that this year (and in 2020) we are not taking many reasonable opportunities to swing hard and deliver a knockout punch.
He actually stated that in his press conference Post game. He was asked, what I thought was a really good question; why didn't they take a 'shot' at the end zone when they had the ball with 58 secs left, 2nd and 3, at the 16 with 1 Timeout left. Yes HE did fear being knocked out of FG range!

Below; Fleck's comments are typed in normal text, my comments are in Bolded Italics. You can watch for yourself as it went from the 2:45-3:33 in his PG presser.

His response was almost 'mocking' the way the question was phrased with emphasis on 'taking a shot' at the end zone. He said "here's the thing; these aren't just 'shots' at the end zone. The coverage has to present itself (not sure I understand whatsoever what that even means as you call a play, you don't wait for the coverage to present itself) the 2nd and 3 we should easily be able to go and get 3 yards running the ball (again, not sure what that has to do with throwing to the end zone as he's not answering the question but maybe he was trying to stop the clock with a first down(?) but it does give you insight into his ultra conservative nature as to why he wouldn't throw it as he explains in the last part) that's what I'm talking about, it has nothing to do with taking a 'shot' at the end zone, you get sacked and your out of field goal range (WHAT??? You're at the 16, you tried a 53 yarder later at a more critical juncture in the game - does that mean (I know it doesn't but come on!) there might be a sack of 25 yards?) right, like I said before, we're playing for points, we're going to go up at halftime 13-10 and we did, we were up at halftime and that's what we wanted to be able to do and it was like we were gonna pop a run and we weren't going to go 4rth (mumbling and indistinct) and on 1st down take a shot at the end zone and 2nd and 3 did not seem like the opportunity at that particular time to get ourselves out of field goal range (REALLY?), but running the football I felt really good about, we just didn't execute the 2 plays.

This explanation to me was eye opening and kind of shocking but tells you that PJ absolutely does not regret one iota what the plays were and how things ended up. Even knowing you lost the game by those very points (we lost by 5 but if we didn't attempt the 2 pointer, we lost by 4, and we lost 4 potential points right there!!). Obviously everything changes if they get a TD, MAYBE, who knows. We'll never know but listening to this explanation was discouraging for me as a fan and I will leave it at that!

I hate to keep discussing all of this but really, I'm upset at what transpired in that game and because his replies tell me that our HC did NOT learn any valuable lesson, and he'd do the same thing the same way all over again.
 
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Honestly, I don’t think he fears the sack and longer FG attempt. He fears the INT. He just doesn’t have confidence in this year’s passing game. Might be personnel, might be scheme, might be both. But it is clear that this year (and in 2020) we are not taking many reasonable opportunities to swing hard and deliver a knockout punch.
Maybe he watched one of the Kill era games vs Wisconsin where I was praying Leidner do not throw a pic in the Badger end zone here :)
 



Coach sees things I certainly don't see.

Maybe that's why he makes millions and I do not...
 

Honestly, I don’t think he fears the sack and longer FG attempt. He fears the INT. He just doesn’t have confidence in this year’s passing game. Might be personnel, might be scheme, might be both. But it is clear that this year (and in 2020) we are not taking many reasonable opportunities to swing hard and deliver a knockout punch.
Um, pound the rock.
 


He actually stated that in his press conference Post game. He was asked, what I thought was a really good question; why didn't they take a 'shot' at the end zone when they had the ball with 58 secs left, 2nd and 3, at the 16 with 1 Timeout left. Yes HE did fear being knocked out of FG range!

Below; Fleck's comments are typed in normal text, my comments are in Bolded Italics. You can watch for yourself as it went from the 2:45-3:33 in his PG presser.

His response was almost 'mocking' the way the question was phrased with emphasis on 'taking a shot' at the end zone. He said "here's the thing; these aren't just 'shots' at the end zone. The coverage has to present itself (not sure I understand whatsoever what that even means as you call a play, you don't wait for the coverage to present itself) the 2nd and 3 we should easily be able to go and get 3 yards running the ball (again, not sure what that has to do with throwing to the end zone as he's not answering the question but maybe he was trying to stop the clock with a first down(?) but it does give you insight into his ultra conservative nature as to why he wouldn't throw it as he explains in the last part) that's what I'm talking about, it has nothing to do with taking a 'shot' at the end zone, you get sacked and your out of field goal range (WHAT??? You're at the 16, you tried a 53 yarder later at a more critical juncture in the game - does that mean (I know it doesn't but come on!) there might be a sack of 25 yards?) right, like I said before, we're playing for points, we're going to go up at halftime 13-10 and we did, we were up at halftime and that's what we wanted to be able to do and it was like we were gonna pop a run and we weren't going to go 4rth (mumbling and indistinct) and on 1st down take a shot at the end zone and 2nd and 3 did not seem like the opportunity at that particular time to get ourselves out of field goal range (REALLY?), but running the football I felt really good about, we just didn't execute the 2 plays.

This explanation to me was eye opening and kind of shocking but tells you that PJ absolutely does not regret one iota what the plays were and how things ended up. Even knowing you lost the game by those very points (we lost by 5 but if we didn't attempt the 2 pointer, we lost by 4, and we lost 4 potential points right there!!). Obviously everything changes if they get a TD, MAYBE, who knows. We'll never know but listening to this explanation was discouraging for me as a fan and I will leave it at that!

I hate to keep discussing all of this but really, I'm upset at what transpired in that game and because his replies tell me that our HC did NOT learn any valuable lesson, and he'd do the same thing the same way all over again.
Your analysis is spot on and his arrogance at not learning from past mistakes is in full display. Taking desperate long shot risky plays late in the game when quality opportunities are overlooked earlier in the game is inexcusable. I like PJ but if anyone needs a dedicated analytics guy it is him.
 



We just want him to derail all our in-house experts and surprise us.

I clearly can't fathom what is wrong with the team. There are things we are not privy to as why the Offense stumbles..
 

I have never seen a football coach at any level at the end of the half in the red zone with plenty of time on the clock to score a touchdown consistently play for field goals like Fleck. Doesn't he even consider the ramifications of that no confidence message to his players?
You haven’t watched much football then.
Sorry your morale is low. Hope you recover
 

You haven’t watched much football then.
Sorry your morale is low. Hope you recover
no coach does this consistently only rarely, and never with a suspect field goal kicker.

morale is high with PJ, just think his inability to adapt especially during the game will make his ceiling much lower than it should be, look how long it took him to replace old defensive coordinator with Rossi already on staff.
 

no coach does this consistently only rarely, and never with a suspect field goal kicker.

morale is high with PJ, just think his inability to adapt especially during the game will make his ceiling much lower than it should be, look how long it took him to replace old defensive coordinator with Rossi already on staff.
Many coaches do it consistently

not sure what you’re talking about. PJ is conservative, but he is not alone in his conservatism. If you think he is, you haven’t watched much football
 

Many coaches do it consistently

not sure what you’re talking about. PJ is conservative, but he is not alone in his conservatism. If you think he is, you haven’t watched much football
Mason addressed some of this on his appearance with Barrerio yesterday as well. Talked about how if you call a running play and it doesn't work you are conservative but if you pick up 10 yards you are a genius.
 

PJ is certainly not conservative, if he was he would never have gone for it on 4th down deep in his own zone mid game like he did against Ohio State and Bowling Green.

His problem is bad risk analysis and/or analytics. Giving up the chance to score 7 points against a top defensive team with a veteran QB with no history of interceptions when you certainly are not assured of 3 points with your field goal kicker is not being conversative, it is simply bad analytics.
 

Mason addressed some of this on his appearance with Barrerio yesterday as well. Talked about how if you call a running play and it doesn't work you are conservative but if you pick up 10 yards you are a genius.
Iowa ran on 3rd and more than 8 twice in the second half against Minnesota.

and people are saying Kirk was more aggressive than PJ.
 

Like a lot of you, I'm not a fan of the conservative tendencies Fleck has shown.

However, when it comes to the team and morale, I trust that Fleck is as connected and dialed in with his players as any coach.

Should he change his conservative playcalling? Yes, what do you have to lose at this point?
But is it because he is losing the locker room? I highly doubt it.
 

Good point, wrong choice of words I should have said confidence instead of morale. PJ is a great fit at the U, I am just concerned with his ability to understand his weaknesses and be humble and decisive to make the changes to improve.

Washington's score a touchdown to take a 10 points lead with 30 seconds left in an NFL game last weekend. Instead of going for 1 or 2 extra points at the advice of his analytics guys Washington coach took a knee to eliminate the slight chance of the defense scoring two points on the extra point attempt and making it a one score game. Does PJ have these resources and if he did would he trust them?
 

When only the Service teams run more than you do and you are 120th or so of 130 teams in passing yards, it means you do not have a viable passing game in the B10 in the coach's fifth year, with a senior QB and a huge, veteran offensive line, plus Autman-Bell, backs to throw to, tight ends also plus some developing wide receivers.
 

Iowa ran on 3rd and more than 8 twice in the second half against Minnesota.

and people are saying Kirk was more aggressive than PJ.
Mason was especially confused by Iowa's strategy late in the game where they essentially just kneeled on it and went for a field goal to go up 5 instead of trying to seal the game with a TD. On that series they were 100% just playing for a field goal by running QB sneaks into a stacked box.
 

Mason was especially confused by Iowa's strategy late in the game where they essentially just kneeled on it and went for a field goal to go up 5 instead of trying to seal the game with a TD. On that series they were 100% just playing for a field goal by running QB sneaks into a stacked box.
Yeah. Really odd to me.

everyone bagging on fleck for being too conservative…but in the second half fleck was the less conservative of the two coaches.



it is frustrating at time how conservative fleck is, but he is not alone in his conservatism
 

I would have to go back and watch the tape, but I think one aspect is not just that a running play was called, but you have to consider what type of running play.

the toss play was working well. that could have been used to set up a counter (if the Gophers have that in the playbook) or even a reverse.

the point is, if it's 3rd and 3, do you try to put a back in space, or just try to pound off-tackle or RUTM?

Those are the situations where the lack of a mobile QB really limits the offense. A Martinez-type QB can go out on the edge and create a run, pitch or pass option. with a less mobile QB, you lose at least one of those options.

That is one of my gripes with how they use Kramer in the wildcat. Almost every running play is off-guard or maybe off-tackle. why not try to go wide or create a run-pitch option?
 

I would have to go back and watch the tape, but I think one aspect is not just that a running play was called, but you have to consider what type of running play.

the toss play was working well. that could have been used to set up a counter (if the Gophers have that in the playbook) or even a reverse.

the point is, if it's 3rd and 3, do you try to put a back in space, or just try to pound off-tackle or RUTM?

Those are the situations where the lack of a mobile QB really limits the offense. A Martinez-type QB can go out on the edge and create a run, pitch or pass option. with a less mobile QB, you lose at least one of those options.

That is one of my gripes with how they use Kramer in the wildcat. Almost every running play is off-guard or maybe off-tackle. why not try to go wide or create a run-pitch option?
To your last part....interesting question.....he might not be good at that....pitch plays can be really dangerous if the QB messes it up.
 

PJ is certainly not conservative, if he was he would never have gone for it on 4th down deep in his own zone mid game like he did against Ohio State and Bowling Green.

His problem is bad risk analysis and/or analytics. Giving up the chance to score 7 points against a top defensive team with a veteran QB with no history of interceptions when you certainly are not assured of 3 points with your field goal kicker is not being conversative, it is simply bad analytics.
I agree with this assessment, he really needs to brush up on his analytics and/or the percentage based decisions. He went for it against Ohio State as I think we all knew they had to get something going or it might become a blowout as I think it might have been 10-0 already. Bowling Green, he didn't anticipate they would stuff the play as he thought we were so much better is my guess. It turned into a cluster (f) as they called a TO which gave BG a chance to adjust and they pretty much knew what we were going to run when they had a chance to digest the Gophers were going for it. They guessed right and absolutely destroyed the play. HUGE momentum swing and they never got it back.

Gut feelings are what Fleck uses as guides. Knowing the percentages would help this guy big time.

He's shown to be very conservative in my book as even when we had the overpowering Offense, he still punted against Wisconsin up 7-0 in the first quarter on a 4th and 2 from their 37.

There really isn't any rhyme or reason to what he does at times, which shows it's just going with his gut and he really should have a plan ahead of time to help with these decisions.
 
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Many coaches do it consistently

not sure what you’re talking about. PJ is conservative, but he is not alone in his conservatism. If you think he is, you haven’t watched much football
Name the coaches who do that consistently.
 

I would have to go back and watch the tape, but I think one aspect is not just that a running play was called, but you have to consider what type of running play.

the toss play was working well. that could have been used to set up a counter (if the Gophers have that in the playbook) or even a reverse.

the point is, if it's 3rd and 3, do you try to put a back in space, or just try to pound off-tackle or RUTM?

Those are the situations where the lack of a mobile QB really limits the offense. A Martinez-type QB can go out on the edge and create a run, pitch or pass option. with a less mobile QB, you lose at least one of those options.

That is one of my gripes with how they use Kramer in the wildcat. Almost every running play is off-guard or maybe off-tackle. why not try to go wide or create a run-pitch option?
This is one thing that was being commented on in the game thread, that hopefully the toss, which started to get overused quickly due to it's success, was hopefully setting up another level, and possibly some sort of trick play.

We all should have known that was not the case! They really had something there that could have been worked into a pass from the running back, pass back to Morgan for another downfield throw. Something with some creativity but alas, nothing, just 1 different play without any other additional thought or planning worked in (SMH).
 




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