Fleck on KFAN #92noon

[Bob_Loblaw]

So we lost 9 great starters off of a team that won 5 regular season games in 2015, but are losing 11 not great starters off a team that won 8 regular season games last season. Sound logic...

Yeah, you'd think that was the ONLY way to evaluate a team (how good their senior class is).

I wonder if anything else happened during the 2015 season? Besides our coach retiring mid-season, yep, everything else was the same.
Was our schedule the same? Nope, way harder in 2015
Did we have any injuries to some of our better players? Cough. . . cough. . . Travis (one of those SENIORS you baffled how we could replace)
Maybe, I mean maybe, some underclassmen really stepped up in 2016?

But yeah, you're right, the quality of the senior class is the ONLY thing that determines how many wins a team gets.

Can you imagine the horror next year? We have 13 guys (that number will grow) who have already started games, who will probably start more games next season who are scheduled to graduate this season. So what are you predicting? 2 wins in 2018? OR. . . maybe. . . there MIGHT be some other factors?

 

[John Galt]

I listened to the interview and didn't come away with the same broad theme of negativity as the original poster. That said, I wonder who many people in this thread complaining love Jerry Kill's talk in his first couple of years? Jerry was much more negative and a lot of people ate that up. Fleck seems like he's in a no win situation: If he talks up the team, people then expect him to deliver in year one and if he doesn't, he's Brewster and if he tries to preach patience he's setting the bar too low and WE WON 9 GAMES LAST YEAR/THIS IS NOT A REBUILD/RESPECT KILL/CLAEYS!!!

I wouldn't be surprised if someone talked to PJ between his introductory press conference and yesterday and explained how much better the Kill approach worked with Minnesotan's than the Brewster approach. A lot of people, even many on this board, didn't realize that when Brewster was talking about "Taking Gopher Nation to Pasadena" he was never talking about year one, two or three. Then when it doesn't happen, he's mocked and ridiculed.

The previous staff had been here 6 years and really struggled to beat upper echelon teams (2 top 25 wins both over 25th ranked Nebraska I believe), so this idea that PJ should just hit the ground running is odd to me. He's factually correct about the depth issues on the team. If you want to be optimistic about the guys that haven't played on the Oline or at WR or at QB that is fine, but I don't think it's fair to be outraged when others are skeptical.

excellent post

 

[dpodoll68]

So we won more than 8 regular season games during the Kill/Claeys era? I must have missed that.

That's not what you said. Here's what you actually said:

we are a program that tops out at 8 regular season wins

Wrong. We are a program that tops out at national championships - 7 of them to be exact. We have done it before and we can do it again. You should watch the video of your favorite coach from yesterday. Here's a quote: "There is no ceiling."

I just don't get why people here are afraid to shoot for the moon - we weren't going to hire Nick Saban. Our only chance of getting to the next level was on a young, relatively unproven guy to get lucky with and Fleck was the pick of the litter.

This is particularly rich coming from you. "We are a program that tops out at 8 wins," remember?

The previous staff was effective at taking their crumbs left over from lazy recruiting

Lazy recruiting? How dare you. Based on what? A Big Ten coach of the year award, twice being very close to a division championship, and the most program wins in a season in over a decade? That is what equals "lazy recruiting" for you? My God, man, get a clue.

But we are, currently, a bottom feeder in the world of college football and we need someone to shake stuff up.

Bottom feeder? Again, based on what? There are literally dozens of programs who would love to be Minnesota right now, starting in the Big Ten alone with Rutgers, Purdue, Illinois, and Indiana. "Bottom feeder." Real HOMER you are, aren't you?

I will be willing to 'swing and miss' for eternity than just hope for the best with lazy, dumpy, southern-midwest monoliths.

And the real truth comes out, as it usually does. You're superficial. Just own it instead of making up nonsense.

Someone, as is usually the case, suggested I change my name. To be clear I am a University of Minnesota Homer and will always be one. If I seem negative right now, it's because I see faults in our roster and want to be excited to give our new coach (the hottest name on market, remember) a couple years to turn this **** around.

You continue to not get it. Homers are, by definition, not negative. You're one of the most negative posters here, consistently. Before last season you were creaming your jeans at the prospect of 6 wins. Now 9 wins is "depressing" and we needed a new coach because the previous one was fat and talked with a drawl.

For the people arguing with me - do you still want Claeys as our coach? Seriously? Do you really think Tracy Claeys was some hot, young prospect that the Blue Bloods were just waiting to poach? In 10 years Claeys will probably be calling bingo in some rural Kansas dust bowl while Fleck will probably either be the toast of Minneapolis or coaching in the SEC. It's a risk worth taking. Don't call me a "Fleck-ite" as I'm still in wait and see mode, but my main point is this was a risk that the University doesn't usually take and I'm all for it. We can always get back to Claeys' level.

Did anyone in this thread even bring up Claeys before you? What's your obsession? I'd rather have Fleck than Claeys, but I can be an adult and be happy about the new coach without taking a giant dump on the previous one's face.

 

[GFBfan]

Good post EG#9.
Nor is it fair to be outraged when others are optimistic.

 

[Ski U Mah 55]

Wrong. We are a program that tops out at national championships - 7 of them to be exact. We have done it before and we can do it again. You should watch the video of your favorite coach from yesterday. Here's a quote: "There is no ceiling."

To be fair, each of those national championships was during a 7 or 8 win season except for 1904 claimed championship.

 

[dpodoll68]

To be fair, each of those national championships was during a 7 or 8 win season except for 1904 claimed championship.

Right, so we don't top out at 8 win regular seasons. Thanks for the reinforcement.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

So we're now not counting Lingen as a returner last year because he got hurt?

Lol, at least Bob tossed Lingen in there this time to try and fit his narrative.

His original take which he posted several times was that Wolitarsky had a lower percentage of receiving yards this year than Maye did last year, which was completely false.

 

[e.bigelow]

I listened to the interview and didn't come away with the same broad theme of negativity as the original poster. That said, I wonder who many people in this thread complaining love Jerry Kill's talk in his first couple of years? Jerry was much more negative and a lot of people ate that up. Fleck seems like he's in a no win situation: If he talks up the team, people then expect him to deliver in year one and if he doesn't, he's Brewster and if he tries to preach patience he's setting the bar too low and WE WON 9 GAMES LAST YEAR/THIS IS NOT A REBUILD/RESPECT KILL/CLAEYS!!!

I wouldn't be surprised if someone talked to PJ between his introductory press conference and yesterday and explained how much better the Kill approach worked with Minnesotan's than the Brewster approach. A lot of people, even many on this board, didn't realize that when Brewster was talking about "Taking Gopher Nation to Pasadena" he was never talking about year one, two or three. Then when it doesn't happen, he's mocked and ridiculed.

The previous staff had been here 6 years and really struggled to beat upper echelon teams (2 top 25 wins both over 25th ranked Nebraska I believe), so this idea that PJ should just hit the ground running is odd to me. He's factually correct about the depth issues on the team. If you want to be optimistic about the guys that haven't played on the Oline or at WR or at QB that is fine, but I don't think it's fair to be outraged when others are skeptical.

Great post and so spot on.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Yeah, you'd think that was the ONLY way to evaluate a team (how good their senior class is).

I wonder if anything else happened during the 2015 season? Besides our coach retiring mid-season, yep, everything else was the same.
Was our schedule the same? Nope, way harder in 2015
Did we have any injuries to some of our better players? Cough. . . cough. . . Travis (one of those SENIORS you baffled how we could replace)
Maybe, I mean maybe, some underclassmen really stepped up in 2016?

But yeah, you're right, the quality of the senior class is the ONLY thing that determines how many wins a team gets.

Can you imagine the horror next year? We have 13 guys (that number will grow) who have already started games, who will probably start more games next season who are scheduled to graduate this season. So what are you predicting? 2 wins in 2018? OR. . . maybe. . . there MIGHT be some other factors?

Yeah and this years schedule will likely be harder than last years, and who knows what injuries could take place. The OL is already thin, and there is little depth on the DL. Same goes for the DBs. Plus the lack of talent at QB/WR. But sure we are 'loaded with talent and depth'.

Which underclassmen stepped up in 2016 that didn't see significant playing time in 2015? The freshman linebackers/Cashman were mostly situational pass rushers. Pretty much all of last years starters saw significant playing time in the past. The Juco OL were new but they weren't very good. There are many more unknowns going into this season. They may rely on true freshman not just to play this year, but to actually start. Winfield was the only freshman that started last year outside of Durr in the bowl game, and I think it's unlikely Durr will be able to play this year.

I'm not predicting anything until the season is closer and we actually have an idea of who is playing. No I don't think this is a 2 win team and I am hopeful they'll make a bowl game.

 

[Torres9]

I listened to the interview and didn't come away with the same broad theme of negativity as the original poster. That said, I wonder who many people in this thread complaining love Jerry Kill's talk in his first couple of years? Jerry was much more negative and a lot of people ate that up. Fleck seems like he's in a no win situation: If he talks up the team, people then expect him to deliver in year one and if he doesn't, he's Brewster and if he tries to preach patience he's setting the bar too low and WE WON 9 GAMES LAST YEAR/THIS IS NOT A REBUILD/RESPECT KILL/CLAEYS!!!

I wouldn't be surprised if someone talked to PJ between his introductory press conference and yesterday and explained how much better the Kill approach worked with Minnesotan's than the Brewster approach. A lot of people, even many on this board, didn't realize that when Brewster was talking about "Taking Gopher Nation to Pasadena" he was never talking about year one, two or three. Then when it doesn't happen, he's mocked and ridiculed.

The previous staff had been here 6 years and really struggled to beat upper echelon teams (2 top 25 wins both over 25th ranked Nebraska I believe), so this idea that PJ should just hit the ground running is odd to me. He's factually correct about the depth issues on the team. If you want to be optimistic about the guys that haven't played on the Oline or at WR or at QB that is fine, but I don't think it's fair to be outraged when others are skeptical.

Agree with others. Great post.

Minnesotans are a real odd bunch, at least when it comes to sports. Never happy, revel in complaining, etc. I don't get it.

 

[GopherPlaya]

I listened to the interview and didn't come away with the same broad theme of negativity as the original poster. That said, I wonder who many people in this thread complaining love Jerry Kill's talk in his first couple of years? Jerry was much more negative and a lot of people ate that up. Fleck seems like he's in a no win situation: If he talks up the team, people then expect him to deliver in year one and if he doesn't, he's Brewster and if he tries to preach patience he's setting the bar too low and WE WON 9 GAMES LAST YEAR/THIS IS NOT A REBUILD/RESPECT KILL/CLAEYS!!!

I wouldn't be surprised if someone talked to PJ between his introductory press conference and yesterday and explained how much better the Kill approach worked with Minnesotan's than the Brewster approach. A lot of people, even many on this board, didn't realize that when Brewster was talking about "Taking Gopher Nation to Pasadena" he was never talking about year one, two or three. Then when it doesn't happen, he's mocked and ridiculed.

The previous staff had been here 6 years and really struggled to beat upper echelon teams (2 top 25 wins both over 25th ranked Nebraska I believe), so this idea that PJ should just hit the ground running is odd to me. He's factually correct about the depth issues on the team. If you want to be optimistic about the guys that haven't played on the Oline or at WR or at QB that is fine, but I don't think it's fair to be outraged when others are skeptical.

+1

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Yeah and this years schedule will likely be harder than last years, and who knows what injuries could take place. The OL is already thin, and there is little depth on the DL. Same goes for the DBs. Plus the lack of talent at QB/WR. But sure we are 'loaded with talent and depth'.

Which underclassmen stepped up in 2016 that didn't see significant playing time in 2015? The freshman linebackers/Cashman were mostly situational pass rushers. Pretty much all of last years starters saw significant playing time in the past. The Juco OL were new but they weren't very good. There are many more unknowns going into this season. They may rely on true freshman not just to play this year, but to actually start. Winfield was the only freshman that started last year outside of Durr in the bowl game, and I think it's unlikely Durr will be able to play this year.

I'm not predicting anything until the season is closer and we actually have an idea of who is playing. No I don't think this is a 2 win team and I am hopeful they'll make a bowl game.

See what you do, your post was absolutely idiotic. You argued that it wasn't logical to say that the only way to judge how good a team does is by the senior classes. That was your point. It was horrible. So I pointed it out. Now. . . to argue you back, you create a strawman argument that I never said.

I never said we are loaded with talent and depth at QB and WR. Never. I've never hinted at it. I'm simply saying, read slowly, we are in just about the same position this year as we were last year at QB and WR. It's not a good position. However, we didn't lose great players from that group. This is a simple concept. If you're having trouble, just re-read this paragraph.

The JuCo lineman were starters. We gave up like the second fewest sacks in the Big 10 and ran the ball decent. They were OK. I get they weren't fantastic, but you pointed to us losing Nick Rallis from last year. They contributed and will contribute as much (probably way more) than Nick Rallis. Your argument sucks again.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Lol, at least Bob tossed Lingen in there this time to try and fit his narrative.

His original take which he posted several times was that Wolitarsky had a lower percentage of receiving yards this year than Maye did last year, which was completely false.

Counting it in terms of what? You don't think Lingen's injury impacted our passing game? I'm not making the argument to win a fight on Gopherhole, I'm speaking about reality.

Losing Lingen and Maye last year absolutely hurt our passing game in 2016. Having Lingen come back would absolutely help our passing game.

How is this anything but common sense?

Let's hear you try to explain how losing Lingen didn't hurt our passing game and adding wouldn't help our passing game. Please stick to this question and try not constantly create arguments (that I never made).

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

See what you do, your post was absolutely idiotic. You argued that it wasn't logical to say that the only way to judge how good a team does is by the senior classes. That was your point. It was horrible. So I pointed it out. Now. . . to argue you back, you create a strawman argument that I never said.

I never said we are loaded with talent and depth at QB and WR. Never. I've never hinted at it. I'm simply saying, read slowly, we are in just about the same position this year as we were last year at QB and WR. It's not a good position. However, we didn't lose great players from that group. This is a simple concept. If you're having trouble, just re-read this paragraph.

The JuCo lineman were starters. We gave up like the second fewest sacks in the Big 10 and ran the ball decent. They were OK. I get they weren't fantastic, but you pointed to us losing Nick Rallis from last year. They contributed and will contribute as much (probably way more) than Nick Rallis. Your argument sucks again.

No, the original point all along was that both you and bottlebass said we weren't losing anyone of importance off of last year's team, which is completely idiotic. You didn't specifically say QB and WR but you said this team is loaded with talent and depth.

Rallis technically only started 3 games last year, but was listed at the top of the position chart for 9 of them. He was solid when he played.

 

[Iceland12]

I listened to the interview and didn't come away with the same broad theme of negativity as the original poster. That said, I wonder who many people in this thread complaining love Jerry Kill's talk in his first couple of years? Jerry was much more negative and a lot of people ate that up. Fleck seems like he's in a no win situation: If he talks up the team, people then expect him to deliver in year one and if he doesn't, he's Brewster and if he tries to preach patience he's setting the bar too low and WE WON 9 GAMES LAST YEAR/THIS IS NOT A REBUILD/RESPECT KILL/CLAEYS!!!

I wouldn't be surprised if someone talked to PJ between his introductory press conference and yesterday and explained how much better the Kill approach worked with Minnesotan's than the Brewster approach. A lot of people, even many on this board, didn't realize that when Brewster was talking about "Taking Gopher Nation to Pasadena" he was never talking about year one, two or three. Then when it doesn't happen, he's mocked and ridiculed.
...

Except for his lousy phone, yep, Fleck sounded very reasonable. Nowhere near the "doom and gloom" that the O.P. indicates or that the haters insist is coming.

Sounds like Fleck knows what he's doing and what he's talking about. Not surprising considering his experience and record. He should and does sound like a guy who knows what he's doing!

He's wasn't Brewster-like in hype or Kill-like in "boy, this team sucks!" Doesn't sounds if he's planning on a Mason, Brewster or Kill first season of "tear it all up and who gives a damn about winning" either. Very good news with Michigan State, Nebraska and Wisconsin coming into TCF this year. Overall the schedule is only slightly tougher this year. Big Ten Champ Penn State, is replaced by Michigan? That's a push. Rutgers is replaced by MSU. A Spartan team coming off of a 3-9 season, but still should be better than Rutgers. Way better.

On your other point, no kidding. Minnesotans really eat-up the "every thing is awful" approach don't they? Plenty of people on the board freak out anytime somebody says that they are expecting a good season this year. Maybe even a decent one. "The sky IS falling!!!!!"

The best part of "lowered expectations"? The "we're gonna lose" crowd is that they insist on ignoring the bowl wins the last two years to emphasize the "regular season". 6-7 becomes 5-7 and 9-4 presto chango becomes 8-4!

Yep, they think that 6 wins is out of reach for Fleck. Maybe they really think that 5 wins is beyond the reach for this staff? A good APR got that 5-7 win team a chance to play in their bowl game.

Fleck and Company deserve way more respect than that.

 

[beatles]

Right, so we don't top out at 8 win regular seasons. Thanks for the reinforcement.

Under Kills/Claeys we did top out at 8 regular season wins, which is what Gopherhomer said.

 

[Iceland12]

Under Kills/Claeys we did top out at 9 season wins...

Bowl games count in season records. Trolling or just plain ignorant?

Unless you're planning on e-mailing Coach Fleck and telling him to forget about going to bowl games.

 

[dpodoll68]

Under Kills/Claeys we did top out at 8 regular season wins, which is what Gopherhomer said.

No, that is not what he said in the original post. That's what he changed/spun it to in his follow-up. Reading comprehension is a beautiful thing.

 

[beatles]

Bowl games count in season records. Trolling or just plain ignorant?

Unless you're planning on e-mailing Coach Fleck and telling him to forget about going to bowl games.

Are you being serious? I clearly said REGULAR season. My post was fact.

 

[beatles]

No, that is not what he said in the original post. That's what he changed/spun it to in his follow-up. Reading comprehension is a beautiful thing.

How would you know? If you do please explain it to Iceland.

 

[dpodoll68]

How would you know? If you do please explain it to Iceland.

Why do you (and Gopher"Homer") need to qualify your posts by saying "regular season" instead of just "season"? Why do you feel the need to make it appear worse than it was? Bowl wins count in the win totals and the stats and everything.

 

[beatles]

Why do you (and Gopher"Homer") need to qualify your posts by saying "regular season" instead of just "season"? Why do you feel the need to make it appear worse than it was? Bowl wins count in the win totals and the stats and everything.

I'm well aware they count. But for instance, saying the Gophers won 6 games in 2015 to me is a bit misleading as 99% of 6 win seasons means losing your bowl game. It's typically not because you win 5 games and then are awarded a bowl game against a MAC team which is a game a Big Ten team should not lose. I don't do it to make anything appear worse than it is.

 

[dpodoll68]

saying the Gophers won 6 games in 2015 to me is a bit misleading

It's not misleading, it's factual. You're all about facts, right?

as 99% of 6 win seasons means losing your bowl game

So what? It's a bad thing that we won our bowl game?

I don't do it to make anything appear worse than it is.

Of course you do.

 

[Iceland12]

Are you being serious? I clearly said REGULAR season. My post was fact.

More hilarious than fact. You usually make sense. This "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" approach to season records is quite hilarious and not fooling anybody. You do know the difference correct?

Your post and the normal trolling posts on the subject, are just attempts at discounting season records. All bowl games count in a teams regular season record. All stats do too.

When was the last time somebody referred to Mason's 2003 season as a 9-3 regular season team, throwing away the Sun Bowl win against Oregon? His 2002 8-5 team as a 7-5 team leaving-off his victory over Arkansas? How about Clemson's National Championship team as a 11-1 regular season team? Does anybody? It doesn't happen because it would be dishonest and they'd be laughed at and corrected in seconds.

There are Conference Records and Regular season records and those include all games played, including Bowl Games.

The 8 win "regular season" total is an incredibly lame and transparent attempt to denigrate the Holiday Bowl win against Washington State. Then do people think that Fleck never won his Conference Championship game? Never made that Cotton Bowl game? Come to think about it maybe that's another reason the haters want to focus on a non-existent "season" record.

Bet Fleck, his staff and WMU fans are proud of that Bowl game, even if they didn't appreciate the result.

Gopher fans should be proud of the Holiday Bowl win, not pretend it didn't exist. Save that for Insight Bowl versus Texas Tech.

 

[alchemy2u]

Wow, we need to change the name of GH to the "Chicken Little" fan board!

The OP must have been linked to the prior staff to be that sensitive to the innocuous comments made by PJ. When asked, he basically said that it will take some time to switch over to their new ways of doing things and to change the attitude of the whole state with our expectations of not winning.

His comments with the OL and DE are nothing that should surprise anyone. He said we are short on the number of OL players, which is exactly what the staff said last year! Also, it should come as no surprise that a team that was in the middle of transitioning into a 3-4 defensive would be thin at DE!

Too many people are so quick to judge and assume that everything is either black or white. It is possible to think you have good players, but still feel you need more depth, etc....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[beatles]

It's not misleading, it's factual. You're all about facts, right?
.

It implies they had 6 regular season wins meeting the criteria to be awarded a bowl game. That was not the case. They were basically just given an extra game against a bad team making their record look better. And again I've never referenced regular season wins for the purpose of making it look worse.

 

[dpodoll68]

It implies they had 6 regular season wins meeting the criteria to be awarded a bowl game.

To those with an agenda, that's what it implies. And they did meet the criteria to be awarded a bowl game - that's a fact, not an implication.

They were basically just given an extra game against a bad team making their record look better.

Wrong. They earned an extra game against a mediocre team which in fact made their record better.

And again I've never referenced regular season wins for the purpose of making it look worse.

Of course you have.