Fleck: "I know we didn't throw the ball particularly a lot this year. I'm very aware of that.”

[SonjayLarrick]

You said what you said. I copied and pasted it. Now you're parsing it and tap-dancing.

Are you saying your assertion that I am deflecting is based on your comprehension of my statement which clearly read, "So a perspective different than your own..."?

That's an interesting take. Do you get confused a lot?

 

[Dakota2]

Yeah, except I'm not arguing with the head coach. Not even close.

The passing game needed to be improved; there's no question. He is addressing that, as he should.

That's not the same thing as saying we're going to scrap our run-oriented, eat the clock, control the ball approach. He (Fleck) has never said he's going to do so.

Nice dodge. Nobody has ever said we should abandon the basic concept of offense deployed by Fleck and most coaches in the Big Ten. Only you have tried for months to ridicule the idea we have not been balanced.

 

[RememberMurray]

Nice dodge. Nobody has ever said we should abandon the basic concept of offense deployed by Fleck and most coaches in the Big Ten. Only you have tried for months to ridicule the idea we have not been balanced.

Huh?

Please link some unedited quotes of mine in which I try "to ridicule the idea that we have not been balanced".

I'm not even sure what you're attempting to say with that particular word salad.

 

[RememberMurray]

Are you saying your assertion that I am deflecting is based on your comprehension of my statement which clearly read, "So a perspective different than your own..."?

That's an interesting take. Do you get confused a lot?

I copied and pasted your two, unedited quotes, side by side. No additional commentary is needed.

 

[kg21]

We were one of the worst passing teams in the country. Is there some kind of argument going on here?

 

[RememberMurray]

We were one of the worst passing teams in the country. Is there some kind of argument going on here?

We had very few passing attempts, compared to other teams. This was by design. We know the head coach likes to run the ball, in order to control the clock and keep the other teams' offense off the field.

And we averaged over 8 yards per passing attempt, which is not among the worst. It's actually pretty good.

However, it is undeniable our passing game had major shortcomings, and Fleck is working to improve on them. We definitely need to be able to throw the ball better when needed. We'll have to see how that plays out in 2022 as far as the run/pass ratio is concerned.

In 2019, when Kirk Ciarrocca was last in charge of the Gopher offense, Minnesota had 24.8 passing attempts per game, and 43.1 rushing attempts per game. That 2019 team had Tanner Morgan at QB, and Rashod Bateman, Tyler Johnson and Chris Autman-Bell at receiver. The running backs were Rodney Smith, Shannon Brooks and Mo Ibrahim.

 

[Dakota2]

Huh?

Please link some unedited quotes of mine in which I try "to ridicule the idea that we have not been balanced".

I'm not even sure what you're attempting to say with that particular word salad.

LOL. The Keyboard Football Genius is also a sit down comic. Just gotta love it. But perhaps you are too daft to remember your endless scolding of those many sane observers who said the lack of a passing game and absence of offensive balance was detrimental to the team. "NO NO NO," you screeched. "Fleck loves this."

What a buffoon. Fleck hated it and he has fired the OC and said we are going to fix the glaring flaw. You are a Sanford Fan Club of one.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Every play call goes through the headset of the head coach.

Imagine trying to recruit ends and receivers with the pitch that your offense throws 13 times per game.

Hopefully Fleck and Simon are selling them on being developed into NFL receivers, like TJ and Bateman.

Would love to see CAB and BSF get drafted as well. No idea if that's realistic.

 

[RememberMurray]

LOL. The Keyboard Football Genius is also a sit down comic. Just gotta love it. But perhaps you are too daft to remember your endless scolding of those many sane observers who said the lack of a passing game and absence of offensive balance was detrimental to the team. "NO NO NO," you screeched. "Fleck loves this."

What a buffoon. Fleck hated it and he has fired the OC and said we are going to fix the glaring flaw. You are a Sanford Fan Club of one.

Wow. Yikes.

 

[FanSinceTheFifties]

Yes. Hello-world's premise — which seems to be that passing is better than running, because yards per attempt is higher in passing than in rushing — is pretty shaky.

Most teams have substantially higher yards per attempt in passing when compared to yards per attempt rushing. It's the nature of the beast.

For example, take Michigan:
5.3 yards per attempt rushing, 8.3 yards per attempt passing. Yet Michigan had 359 passing attempts, 548 rushing attempts. Michigan loves to run the ball. And, last time I checked, the Wolverines won the B1G and are playing Georgia in a playoff game tomorrow night.

I wonder how much that difference would shrink if yards lost during sacks and return yards after an interception were (more appropriately) charged to the passing average.

 

[60's Guy]

Here's what I think I know: We have enough pieces for the coaches to develop a solid team next year. I'm not to sure there are too many better college O-Line coaches than Callahan. Simon has put at least three wide receivers in the NFL in the first couple rounds...he can coach. Kirk was magical, he has had a sabbatical, he's recharged. PJ and Kirk trust each other...our offense will be much improved. Our RB's coach keeps putting guys in who gain over 100 yards. And Rossi has been our rock star. I do believe we will be a very good team again next year.
The coaches we have will figure it out. I think the hiccups are gone.

 

[Gophergrandpa]

Passing less than any teams in the top division except the service teams doesn't make any sense and it cost us at least a couple of games. One problem is that Tanner can't scramble, but he has a hot hand at times and can pull a game out. The ratio doesn't have to be 50/50, but it's encouraging that the head coach sees the lack of passing as a problem that he hopes to fix in coming seasons.

You’ll never see 50/50 from Fleck (or from many successfully coaches who have to build a team that can win in November in a northern climate). In 2019 we had great “balance” with 60% rushing and 40% passing. In 2021 we seemed very out of balance with 70% rushing and 30% passing. The statistical difference isn’t that big great, but it was very, very noticeable. For instance, we rushed on average 43 times per game in 2019, and 46 times per game in 2021. We attempted 25 passes per game in 2019, and 20 passes per game in 2021. Here’s the key difference: we passed for 3293 yards (253 per game) in 2019, but only 2106 yards (162 per game) in 2021. We passed for 2.1 TDs per game in 2019, but only 0.9 per game in 2021. The lack of results in our passing game (esp. red zone passing) was a bigger problem than the ratio of run to pass. We ran fewer plays per game in 2021 (5-6 less per game), because we ran the play clock down to zero seemingly in every situation, not just strategically.

All this means to me what is obvious to many. We lacked confidence in our passing game in 2021 as a balanced component of our offense. And we had one of the biggest and most experienced OL to ever set foot on a college field (older and 30 pounds heavier on average than the Vikings’ OL). And we had a seemingly inexhaustible stable of quality RBs. And we had an historically good defense. Thus the 70/30 ratio, eat the clock strategy. It fit.

I bet that PJ and Ciarocca return to a balanced offense in 2022: a 60/40 ratio. We will continue to run the ball 44 or 45 times per game, but we will pass the ball more often. We will gain the extra plays per game simply by wasting the play clock strategically rather than habitually. And it will work great if the coaches regain confidence in our passing game. Our obvious lack of confidence in 2021 has many components: Tanner seemed rusty and often not trusted, perhaps because he is a better RPO/play action passer than a drop back/check down QB; the receiving corp was banged up and doesn’t have inexhaustible depth; the play calling and route trees seemed, at times (not always), to be somewhat disconnected from what the defense seemed to be giving.

If Ciarocca can restore confidence in the passing game (by playing to Tanner’s strengths), the run/pass ratio will change (to 60/40) but the results of the passing game, in terms or total yards and TDs, could improve markedly.

2022, even with all the new personnel, should prove very interesting.

 

[RememberMurray]

You’ll never see 50/50 from Fleck (or from many successfully coaches who have to build a team that can win in November in a northern climate). In 2019 we had great “balance” with 60% rushing and 40% passing. In 2021 we seemed very out of balance with 70% rushing and 30% passing. The statistical difference isn’t that big great, but it was very, very noticeable. For instance, we rushed on average 43 times per game in 2019, and 46 times per game in 2021. We attempted 25 passes per game in 2019, and 20 passes per game in 2021. Here’s the key difference: we passed for 3293 yards (253 per game) in 2019, but only 2106 yards (162 per game) in 2021. We passed for 2.1 TDs per game in 2019, but only 0.9 per game in 2021. The lack of results in our passing game (esp. red zone passing) was a bigger problem than the ratio of run to pass. We ran fewer plays per game in 2021 (5-6 less per game), because we ran the play clock down to zero seemingly in every situation, not just strategically.

Well said. The best post on this thread and on this subject so far, by a wide margin.

The bolded is especially astute.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

It's funny how fans perceive things.

A bad pass play - ending in an interception or a poorly-thrown incompletion - tends to stand out. it's more visible.

A running play that results in no gain or a short loss does not stand out so much - unless it happens in a key situation like a goal-line play or a 3rd-and-1 late in the game.

So, after the game, the bad passing plays tend to be more memorable as opposed to the bad running plays.

I would argue that it's really not about the number of passing plays - it's about the effectiveness of the passing plays. If the QB completes 10 passes for 75 yards and no TD's, that's perceived as a bad game. But if the QB completes 10 passes for 115 yards and 2 TD's, that is a completely different perception.

What the Gophers need is a more effective and efficient passing game. that might mean more passing attempts, but the real need is quality, not necessarily quantity.

 

[hello-world]

Here's what I think I know: We have enough pieces for the coaches to develop a solid team next year. I'm not to sure there are too many better college O-Line coaches than Callahan. Simon has put at least three wide receivers in the NFL in the first couple rounds...he can coach. Kirk was magical, he has had a sabbatical, he's recharged. PJ and Kirk trust each other...our offense will be much improved. Our RB's coach keeps putting guys in who gain over 100 yards. And Rossi has been our rock star. I do believe we will be a very good team again next year.
The coaches we have will figure it out. I think the hiccups are gone.

I think the antithesis to this is that Minnesota had a very experienced offensive line and defensive line this year and the impact of losing that can manifest in unexpected ways. Suddenly a running back room that looked like it had five quality starters may have none. A defense that got pressure with three men turns into a sieve.

Next year is a black box to me. Best top-to-bottom coaching staff that I think we've seen at Minnesota in my lifetime, excited for that. Returning veteran leaders at most skill positions, excited for that. Losing the real impact players in the middle puts that all in jeopardy though.

 

[hello-world]

It's funny how fans perceive things.

A bad pass play - ending in an interception or a poorly-thrown incompletion - tends to stand out. it's more visible.

A running play that results in no gain or a short loss does not stand out so much - unless it happens in a key situation like a goal-line play or a 3rd-and-1 late in the game.

So, after the game, the bad passing plays tend to be more memorable as opposed to the bad running plays.

I would argue that it's really not about the number of passing plays - it's about the effectiveness of the passing plays. If the QB completes 10 passes for 75 yards and no TD's, that's perceived as a bad game. But if the QB completes 10 passes for 115 yards and 2 TD's, that is a completely different perception.

What the Gophers need is a more effective and efficient passing game. that might mean more passing attempts, but the real need is quality, not necessarily quantity.

Agreed with all of this. Building on your point, a quality passing game tends to lead to more passing because the coaches trust the players more. If they can make the throw game more consistent then the balance issue become moot.

 

[FormerFatOL]

I think the antithesis to this is that Minnesota had a very experienced offensive line and defensive line this year and the impact of losing that can manifest in unexpected ways. Suddenly a running back room that looked like it had five quality starters may have none. A defense that got pressure with three men turns into a sieve.

Next year is a black box to me. Best top-to-bottom coaching staff that I think we've seen at Minnesota in my lifetime, excited for that. Returning veteran leaders at most skill positions, excited for that. Losing the real impact players in the middle puts that all in jeopardy though.

The first 2 to 3 games might be a little rough on offense. Fans will probably be upset. Luckily the first two games aren't strong opponents. It takes time for an offensive line to gel and for coaches to understand which new players are the gamers.

 

[GFBfan]

It’s more the 8-consecutive run drives before kicking a field goal at the end of the half in the most important game of the year that has me concerned.

Having done the OL evaluations all year, here are the first half numbers - minus the bowl game and Indiana game(recording of that game missed entire first quarter).
Run Plays on 62% and pass on 38%

 

[FormerFatOL]

Having done the OL evaluations all year, here are the first half numbers - minus the bowl game and Indiana game(recording of that game missed entire first quarter).
Run Plays on 62% and pass on 38%

If my numbers are correct, the Indiana first half was the same throwing percentage at 38%. 25 runs vs 15 pass.

 

[Dakota2]

Agreed with all of this. Building on your point, a quality passing game tends to lead to more passing because the coaches trust the players more. If they can make the throw game more consistent then the balance issue become moot.

A balanced offense means more pass plays to keep the defense honest. Even with a great Oline and good backs it's hard to run against a stacked box.

A good air game helps the running game by spreading the defense.

 

[#2Gopher]

You’ll never see 50/50 from Fleck (or from many successfully coaches who have to build a team that can win in November in a northern climate). In 2019 we had great “balance” with 60% rushing and 40% passing. In 2021 we seemed very out of balance with 70% rushing and 30% passing. The statistical difference isn’t that big great, but it was very, very noticeable. For instance, we rushed on average 43 times per game in 2019, and 46 times per game in 2021. We attempted 25 passes per game in 2019, and 20 passes per game in 2021. Here’s the key difference: we passed for 3293 yards (253 per game) in 2019, but only 2106 yards (162 per game) in 2021. We passed for 2.1 TDs per game in 2019, but only 0.9 per game in 2021. The lack of results in our passing game (esp. red zone passing) was a bigger problem than the ratio of run to pass. We ran fewer plays per game in 2021 (5-6 less per game), because we ran the play clock down to zero seemingly in every situation, not just strategically.

All this means to me what is obvious to many. We lacked confidence in our passing game in 2021 as a balanced component of our offense. And we had one of the biggest and most experienced OL to ever set foot on a college field (older and 30 pounds heavier on average than the Vikings’ OL). And we had a seemingly inexhaustible stable of quality RBs. And we had an historically good defense. Thus the 70/30 ratio, eat the clock strategy. It fit.

I bet that PJ and Ciarocca return to a balanced offense in 2022: a 60/40 ratio. We will continue to run the ball 44 or 45 times per game, but we will pass the ball more often. We will gain the extra plays per game simply by wasting the play clock strategically rather than habitually. And it will work great if the coaches regain confidence in our passing game. Our obvious lack of confidence in 2021 has many components: Tanner seemed rusty and often not trusted, perhaps because he is a better RPO/play action passer than a drop back/check down QB; the receiving corp was banged up and doesn’t have inexhaustible depth; the play calling and route trees seemed, at times (not always), to be somewhat disconnected from what the defense seemed to be giving.

If Ciarocca can restore confidence in the passing game (by playing to Tanner’s strengths), the run/pass ratio will change (to 60/40) but the results of the passing game, in terms or total yards and TDs, could improve markedly.

2022, even with all the new personnel, should prove very interesting.

I agree with this post and appreciate this post. It is a post that isn't bashing anyone but rather simply laying out what could possibly happen in 2022.

 

[Dave H]

LOL. The Keyboard Football Genius is also a sit down comic. Just gotta love it. But perhaps you are too daft to remember your endless scolding of those many sane observers who said the lack of a passing game and absence of offensive balance was detrimental to the team. "NO NO NO," you screeched. "Fleck loves this."

What a buffoon. Fleck hated it and he has fired the OC and said we are going to fix the glaring flaw. You are a Sanford Fan Club of one.

That is not even close to what he said. Good lord do you have to ruin every thread you post in? I am starting to think you are actually a certain banned poster.

 

[Dave H]

Here's what I think I know: We have enough pieces for the coaches to develop a solid team next year. I'm not to sure there are too many better college O-Line coaches than Callahan. Simon has put at least three wide receivers in the NFL in the first couple rounds...he can coach. Kirk was magical, he has had a sabbatical, he's recharged. PJ and Kirk trust each other...our offense will be much improved. Our RB's coach keeps putting guys in who gain over 100 yards. And Rossi has been our rock star. I do believe we will be a very good team again next year.
The coaches we have will figure it out. I think the hiccups are gone.

This.

 

[Dave H]

You’ll never see 50/50 from Fleck (or from many successfully coaches who have to build a team that can win in November in a northern climate). In 2019 we had great “balance” with 60% rushing and 40% passing. In 2021 we seemed very out of balance with 70% rushing and 30% passing. The statistical difference isn’t that big great, but it was very, very noticeable. For instance, we rushed on average 43 times per game in 2019, and 46 times per game in 2021. We attempted 25 passes per game in 2019, and 20 passes per game in 2021. Here’s the key difference: we passed for 3293 yards (253 per game) in 2019, but only 2106 yards (162 per game) in 2021. We passed for 2.1 TDs per game in 2019, but only 0.9 per game in 2021. The lack of results in our passing game (esp. red zone passing) was a bigger problem than the ratio of run to pass. We ran fewer plays per game in 2021 (5-6 less per game), because we ran the play clock down to zero seemingly in every situation, not just strategically.

All this means to me what is obvious to many. We lacked confidence in our passing game in 2021 as a balanced component of our offense. And we had one of the biggest and most experienced OL to ever set foot on a college field (older and 30 pounds heavier on average than the Vikings’ OL). And we had a seemingly inexhaustible stable of quality RBs. And we had an historically good defense. Thus the 70/30 ratio, eat the clock strategy. It fit.

I bet that PJ and Ciarocca return to a balanced offense in 2022: a 60/40 ratio. We will continue to run the ball 44 or 45 times per game, but we will pass the ball more often. We will gain the extra plays per game simply by wasting the play clock strategically rather than habitually. And it will work great if the coaches regain confidence in our passing game. Our obvious lack of confidence in 2021 has many components: Tanner seemed rusty and often not trusted, perhaps because he is a better RPO/play action passer than a drop back/check down QB; the receiving corp was banged up and doesn’t have inexhaustible depth; the play calling and route trees seemed, at times (not always), to be somewhat disconnected from what the defense seemed to be giving.

If Ciarocca can restore confidence in the passing game (by playing to Tanner’s strengths), the run/pass ratio will change (to 60/40) but the results of the passing game, in terms or total yards and TDs, could improve markedly.

2022, even with all the new personnel, should prove very interesting.

Exactly.

Here is the thing, most people talk about "adjustments" usually as a vague reason to rip a coach. Most of us around here were bored to tears by the offense and wanted them to pass more. They didn't and there is likely reasons for that. Obviously whatever pass plays Sanford put in did not gel with the skill position players we put out there. (his route tree was beyond lame and how do you have all that talent at RB and you never take advantage of using them as slot players or getting them the ball in space) Things often looked discombobulated and just dumb. The run game, thanks to our line, was almost always humming along and saving our bacon. The defense was having a very very good year.

So, what do you do in that situation? Do you continue to throw when it is obvious it isn't working and the QB is losing confidence by the attempt? Do you take chances that will put you in enhanced risk? Or do you do what PJ said they did in the bowl game run the ball down their throats, control the clock and rely on your defense?

Personally I do what we did and I think most successful coaches would too. Of course I also take away play-calling ability from Sanford pretty early on but that is not how it played out and thankfully PJ again made the adjustment to right that wrong. It isn't exciting and it often put us in bad spots but I bet analytically it was the best chance to win. Sometimes the simplest solution is the best one and when you have no confidence in your passing attack ball control offense is the best choice. Only arrogant fools take chances they don't need to out of some sense that they need balance. Hell the Rams almost blew the game against the Vikes because McVeigh just had to show that he could make Stafford into a big game QB...which he isn't. They were running the ball for like 7 yards a carry and he is letting his QB throw the game away.

Next year should be different. My guess is KC and TM have a better understanding of each other than Sanford did. I am guessing KC will be able to utilize talent a little better. Maybe our Oline will take a step back but I trust the coaches and the scheme. As the season goes on we will likely see the coaches adjust to what the team is giving them. If Tanner looks better they will throw a bit more. If not then hopefully they are able to give Athan a bit of run cause its his team in 2023 anyways. My guess is we will be way closer to 2019 than 2021 in terms of style.

 

[NorCalGopher]

You’ll never see 50/50 from Fleck (or from many successfully coaches who have to build a team that can win in November in a northern climate). In 2019 we had great “balance” with 60% rushing and 40% passing. In 2021 we seemed very out of balance with 70% rushing and 30% passing. The statistical difference isn’t that big great, but it was very, very noticeable. For instance, we rushed on average 43 times per game in 2019, and 46 times per game in 2021. We attempted 25 passes per game in 2019, and 20 passes per game in 2021. Here’s the key difference: we passed for 3293 yards (253 per game) in 2019, but only 2106 yards (162 per game) in 2021. We passed for 2.1 TDs per game in 2019, but only 0.9 per game in 2021. The lack of results in our passing game (esp. red zone passing) was a bigger problem than the ratio of run to pass. We ran fewer plays per game in 2021 (5-6 less per game), because we ran the play clock down to zero seemingly in every situation, not just strategically.

All this means to me what is obvious to many. We lacked confidence in our passing game in 2021 as a balanced component of our offense. And we had one of the biggest and most experienced OL to ever set foot on a college field (older and 30 pounds heavier on average than the Vikings’ OL). And we had a seemingly inexhaustible stable of quality RBs. And we had an historically good defense. Thus the 70/30 ratio, eat the clock strategy. It fit.

I bet that PJ and Ciarocca return to a balanced offense in 2022: a 60/40 ratio. We will continue to run the ball 44 or 45 times per game, but we will pass the ball more often. We will gain the extra plays per game simply by wasting the play clock strategically rather than habitually. And it will work great if the coaches regain confidence in our passing game. Our obvious lack of confidence in 2021 has many components: Tanner seemed rusty and often not trusted, perhaps because he is a better RPO/play action passer than a drop back/check down QB; the receiving corp was banged up and doesn’t have inexhaustible depth; the play calling and route trees seemed, at times (not always), to be somewhat disconnected from what the defense seemed to be giving.

If Ciarocca can restore confidence in the passing game (by playing to Tanner’s strengths), the run/pass ratio will change (to 60/40) but the results of the passing game, in terms or total yards and TDs, could improve markedly.

2022, even with all the new personnel, should prove very interesting.

Thank you for the insightful post @Gophergrandpa. My perspective on the bolded section: For all of the reasons you listed, the Gophers had everything aligned to have an influential season for the program in 2021. Win 10-11 games, win the West, play for the Big10 title, reach a major NYD bowl. All the pieces were there.

This ideal alignment was sabotaged by the passing game/scheme and quarterback play.

Kudos to Fleck for making the difficult decision to fire someone he had really just hired and change the direction of the offense moving forward. Hopefully these changes bring progress toward a balanced offense nearly every observer can clearly see is necessary.

BUT ... the coaching staff surely knew early on the passing game was an issue, and they did very little scheme-wise to make changes. They just doubled-down on the running game. Fine. But it cost them two wins. With competent quarterback play and better adjustments, I believe this team was extremely close to being a very special team. It's really a shame.

Replacing nearly the entire offensive and defensive line rotations next season will not be easy.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

All I can say is Spann-Ford has been criminally underutilized. I think he's a beast catching passes and his talent has been wasted.

I hope we continue to find ways to keep getting the ball to BSF. I actually think the screen pass to him in the Indiana(?) game was a huge play for our playcalling to change a bit for the better.

I just want to point out that BSF was utilized pretty well last year, considering we had two TEs playing and didn't throw much.

He had 32 REC for 296 yards. This was 21% of total team receptions & 14% of total team passing yards. That's in-line with the best seasons of Utecht and Spaeth and BSF still has two more seasons.

One thing I do expect to see a bit more next season is BSF lined up wide for a jump ball.

 

[btowngopher]

I don’t care if we aren’t passing that much. The passing game was fine enough to win every game but BG and Illinois. The passing game wasn’t crappy in those two games because we didn’t throw enough the rest of the year. It was crappy because the play calling was atrocious.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I don’t care if we aren’t passing that much. The passing game was fine enough to win every game but BG and Illinois. The passing game wasn’t crappy in those two games because we didn’t throw enough the rest of the year. It was crappy because the play calling was atrocious.

with all due respect, I think there are two separate issues here.

One is the plays as they are drawn up and designed.

the second issue is the actual play-calling.

I happen to believe the biggest issue with the passing game is with the design of the routes. The Gophers' passing game under Sanford showed no diversity. When it's 3rd-and-7, other teams show the ability to throw an 8-yard or 9-yard pass for a 1st down. With the Gophers, there seem to be no short or intermediate routes. I just want to see more different types of routes and patterns.