Fleck after Purdue loss, “It’s all on Me”.

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diefirma said:
Everyone knows the good leaders blame their sub-ordinates for everything that goes wrong. The only reason Fleck says "It's on me" is not to protect the coaches and players from ignorant, stupid, hyper-emotional criticism but he does it just to prove he is the top honcho - to stroke his own ego. That must be the reason.
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Just like everyone knows leaders who fail spectacularly regularly dont last
 

MplsGopher said:
People need to wake up:

college football sucks. It's not anything that even comes close to the word "fair". It's the opposite of fair.

It's not Fleck's fault. He's doing the best he can.


But with how college football works, places like Minnesota will never be consistently competitive, because we'll never be able to convince a fair level of talent to choose to come here.


If NFL rookies got to choose where they wanted to play, they wouldn't choose to come to Minnesota either.

It's a fringe place.

You're either already from here, and come back to raise a family, or otherwise it's not a place anyone desires to move to.
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"Doing the best he can" is for Kindergartners. It's not for people making millions of dollars a year.

If Northwestern, Iowa, and Wisconsin can win the West division, we should be able to too. Yes, Minnesota cannot recruit at the level of OSU -- one reason is because Fleck has blown too many games to take this program to the next level and make kids WANT to come here.

Kill took this team from being the absolute worst in the Big 10 to competing for West titles even when we had tough schedules.

The program under Fleck loses to Bowling Green and bottom-tier Big 10 teams. And next year, we're going to be worse. He does not deserve his contract

"But he tried his best". Give me a break. His best isn't good enough -- we should NEVER be the worst recruiting team in the Big 10. If it were not for Fleck's over-priced contract, we should be moving on, but we're stuck with him.
 
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Isn't everything? Now I will say this - this current team is less talented, so saying that to deflect off of players who don't have the ability of previous teams is understandable to a limited degree. It's been 7 years of that. That excuse was used when the team was better and couldn't win the games under pressure. This comes off as the Boy who Cried Wolf now. Show some accountability or take the heat !!
 

MZBKA1 said:
"Doing the best he can" is for Kindergartners. It's not for people making millions of dollars a year.

If Northwestern, Iowa, and Wisconsin can win the West division, we should be able to too. Yes, Minnesota cannot recruit at the level of OSU -- the reason is because Fleck has blown too many games to take this program to the next level and make kids WANT to come here.

Kill took this team from being the absolute worst in the Big 10 to competing for West titles even when we had tough schedules.

The program under Fleck loses to Bowling Green and bottom-tier Big 10 teams. And next year, we're going to be worse. He does not deserve his contract

"But he tried his best". Give me a break.
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He did?
 

btowngopher said:
He did?
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2014. A loss to #14 Wisconsin in the last game of the season. If we'd won, we would have won the west in a tie with Wisconsin at 6-2.

We played 3 ranked teams to close out the season, losing to eventual national title winner Ohio State by a touchdown, beating Nebraska, and the loss to Wisconsin.

The season featured a maddening loss to Illinois (a bowl team at 6-6) on the road but we controlled our destiny on the Final Saturday.

That season also features a win against Michigan in Ann Arbor (30-14) and 51-14 thumping of Iowa.

It culminated with the first New Years Day bowl game in forever - the Citrus Bowl. Which we lost to Missouri.

As hard as it is to believe, Gopher Football did exist before PJ Fleck. And that season happened with questionable talent at QB which may be a reason we lost a couple of the games, Wisconsin in particular, but not an excuse.

Not that it matters, just like PJ, Kill and Co. Didn't get it done. But just because you don't like the history, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
 


holereader said:
We are who we are - Mason tried - Kill tried- and now PJ - as I recall PJ at his opening press conference talked about national championships (as did Brewster) - we are the Kentucky of the SEC and next year we will be slapped even lower - PJ has flamed out - next man up
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This lets PJ off the hook way too easy. He isn't just losing to Michigan, Ohio State & Penn State, he's losing winnable games to bad team that have less talent. PJ is better than Mason & he's better than Kill/Claeys. His coaching track record proves it. BUT...this is year 7 in his program and it's abysmal. He's being paid a lot of money based on previous accomplishments. I think it's OK for the fans to expect more from him & his program.
 

MplsGopher said:
People need to wake up:

college football sucks. It's not anything that even comes close to the word "fair". It's the opposite of fair.

It's not Fleck's fault. He's doing the best he can.


But with how college football works, places like Minnesota will never be consistently competitive, because we'll never be able to convince a fair level of talent to choose to come here.


If NFL rookies got to choose where they wanted to play, they wouldn't choose to come to Minnesota either.

It's a fringe place.

You're either already from here, and come back to raise a family, or otherwise it's not a place anyone desires to move to.
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Did PJ Fleck write this for you?
We're not complaining about not being able to compete with the big boys in our conference, we're talking about absolute flops against the likes of Northwestern, Illinois & Purdue. All bad teams, all beatable, all crushing defeats. College football is just as "unfair" to these programs, yet they somehow managed to beat us. Your argument & excuses make no sense right now. This sounds like PJ after the Northwestern loss talking about NIL when Northwestern's NIL situation is worse. It sounds hollow and diversionary.
 

I think what is really p-o ing people is the same stupid "coach speak' after these losses.

P.J.'s schtick is not wearing well when things aren't going well......
 




diefirma said:
Everyone knows the good leaders blame their sub-ordinates for everything that goes wrong. The only reason Fleck says "It's on me" is not to protect the coaches and players from ignorant, stupid, hyper-emotional criticism but he does it just to prove he is the top honcho - to stroke his own ego. That must be the reason.
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The reason he says it is to move on from whatever question was asked. It's just a deflection tactic because nobody ever follows up with "what do you plan to do to avoid the mistakes going forward?"
 

kg21 said:
Our wide receivers don't get open. Every throw has to be perfect.

I'm stunned how little attention this gets.

We are brutal at the receiver position.

We can't stop anyone. Just reasonable defense would have us with 2 to 3 more wins. On the other hand, we'd still be somewhat fraudulent.
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Yes, receivers are usually covered but that is because we only have two and sometimes three running routes. Everybody else is trying to help a very poor pass blocking O line. It is stunning how bad our line has been in the pass game this year.
 

MNVCGUY said:
It will fall on deaf ears but people should actually listen to the post game press conference. I thought it was a very honest take on where things are at right now and some of the issues this team is having especially from a depth standpoint.

For example, LB depth was a concern coming into the season and that was with the idea we would have Lindenberg. Thankfully Mav has done a heck of a job filling in as a redshirt freshman but without him and Cody we are in a really tough spot at that position and it was clearly evident today once Mav got hurt.

Again, I fully get that posting anything on here is a waste of time right now while the fire Fleck crowd does their happy dance but some of you need to take a step back from the ledge and understand that seasons like the one we are having happen to all teams....as much as we would love to see teams get better every year that isn't how it works.

Ferentz won 7 games in year 7 at Iowa, 6 in year 8 (2-6 Big Ten record that year) and 6 again in year 9. And that came on the heels of 3 straight double digit win seasons.
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Your points are all valid but I don't think most posters registering frustration are in the "fire Fleck" camp. Any sensible person knows a guy with the level of success he has had is not going to get fired for a five or six win season.

The frustration is based on the fact the team was better than five or six wins. Coaching flat out lost two games. It's hard enough to win in the Big Ten without your coaches blowing games.

The question is will Fleck ever change his attitude towards offense and recruit better on that side? The answer seems to be no, he will not.
 
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caliGopher said:
2014. A loss to #14 Wisconsin in the last game of the season. If we'd won, we would have won the west in a tie with Wisconsin at 6-2.

We played 3 ranked teams to close out the season, losing to eventual national title winner Ohio State by a touchdown, beating Nebraska, and the loss to Wisconsin.

The season featured a maddening loss to Illinois (a bowl team at 6-6) on the road but we controlled our destiny on the Final Saturday.

That season also features a win against Michigan in Ann Arbor (30-14) and 51-14 thumping of Iowa.

It culminated with the first New Years Day bowl game in forever - the Citrus Bowl. Which we lost to Missouri.

As hard as it is to believe, Gopher Football did exist before PJ Fleck. And that season happened with questionable talent at QB which may be a reason we lost a couple of the games, Wisconsin in particular, but not an excuse.

Not that it matters, just like PJ, Kill and Co. Didn't get it done. But just because you don't like the history, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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He competed for A title. He didn’t compete for TITLES even when we had tough schedules.
 



Dakota2 said:
Your points are all valid but I don't think most posters registering frustration are in the "fire Fleck" camp. Any sensible person knows a guy with the level of success he has had is not going to get fired for a five or six win season.

The frustration is based on the fact the team was better than five or six wins. Coaching flat out lost two games. It's hard enough to win in the Big Ten without your coaches blowing games.

The question is will Fleck ever change his attitude towards offense and recruit better on that side? The answer seems to be no, he will not.
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Agree that the "fire Fleck" group is very small, very vocal, and very dumb.

You and I disagree on coaching being the sole reason we lost to Northwestern and Illinois (especially Illinois). Players make some plays and those games both end up in the win column. It is never just on the coaches or just on the players.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Agree that the "fire Fleck" group is very small, very vocal, and very dumb.

You and I disagree on coaching being the sole reason we lost to Northwestern and Illinois (especially Illinois). Players make some plays and those games both end up in the win column. It is never just on the coaches or just on the players.
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Don't put words in my mouth. I have not said coaching was the sole reason for those losses. They were games the players, with all the flaws, had played well enough to win. The other side, in both cases, coached better and won.

We can point to several plays and say if certain players did better we still would have won. True enough. But you just do not want the team to have an extra burden to carry in order to win.
 


caliGopher said:
2014. A loss to #14 Wisconsin in the last game of the season. If we'd won, we would have won the west in a tie with Wisconsin at 6-2.

We played 3 ranked teams to close out the season, losing to eventual national title winner Ohio State by a touchdown, beating Nebraska, and the loss to Wisconsin.

The season featured a maddening loss to Illinois (a bowl team at 6-6) on the road but we controlled our destiny on the Final Saturday.

That season also features a win against Michigan in Ann Arbor (30-14) and 51-14 thumping of Iowa.

It culminated with the first New Years Day bowl game in forever - the Citrus Bowl. Which we lost to Missouri.

As hard as it is to believe, Gopher Football did exist before PJ Fleck. And that season happened with questionable talent at QB which may be a reason we lost a couple of the games, Wisconsin in particular, but not an excuse.

Not that it matters, just like PJ, Kill and Co. Didn't get it done. But just because you don't like the history, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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Sorry but the B1G of 2014 can’t compare to the B1G of today. Not even close.
 

tpbeight said:
This lets PJ off the hook way too easy. He isn't just losing to Michigan, Ohio State & Penn State, he's losing winnable games to bad team that have less talent. PJ is better than Mason & he's better than Kill/Claeys. His coaching track record proves it. BUT...this is year 7 in his program and it's abysmal. He's being paid a lot of money based on previous accomplishments. I think it's OK for the fans to expect more from him & his program.
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Well said
 

Maybe next time Fleck should come out and say there is a curse on Minnesota in Illinois. Heck, it is bleeding over to Indiana. West Lafayette is nearby. Burt “Haystack Calhoun” Bielma must have a voodoo Gopher doll with pins in it. How do you compete with that? Time to add some new things to blame.
 

Jack jones said:
Sorry but the B1G of 2014 can’t compare to the B1G of today. Not even close.
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I absolutely agree with you. The west was actually much stronger in 2014 vs. the dumpster fire it is the past couple of years.

There were three ranked teams in the west in the last few weeks of the season in 2014 and the leader of the west averaged more than 14.7 points per game.

The three top teams in 2014 averaged more than 25 pts/game. None of the west teams are averaging above 24 points per game in 2023.

Only one team gave up more than 25 points per game in 2014.

Three teams in 2023 are giving up more than 28 points per game.

As for the whole of the B1G? You did see tOSU Won the National Title that year, right?

You are spot on.
 
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MplsGopher said:
People need to wake up:

college football sucks. It's not anything that even comes close to the word "fair". It's the opposite of fair.

It's not Fleck's fault. He's doing the best he can.


But with how college football works, places like Minnesota will never be consistently competitive, because we'll never be able to convince a fair level of talent to choose to come here.


If NFL rookies got to choose where they wanted to play, they wouldn't choose to come to Minnesota either.

It's a fringe place.

You're either already from here, and come back to raise a family, or otherwise it's not a place anyone desires to move to.
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College football definitely is not fair - but I've never believed a lot of what you're saying here. If Wisconsin can do it, Minnesota can do it. I have no illusions of us becoming Michigan, or Penn State - but I believe we can be consistent like Iowa or Wisconsin. I'd be curious about what your hopes are for the program.

Fault def will always fall on coaching my man - that's how it works. I'm not at all in the "fire fleck" camp (how silly), but he deserves criticism, it comes with that massive paycheck. As for "doing his best," I don't know anymore... this is the first season where I've considered him burnt out. It happens.

As for the last point about nobody desires to move here, that's a strange thing to say doesn't align with what I've experienced in every job I've had - where half my colleagues moved here (and like it). Buy real estate now, because climate change is going to continue to make MN very attractive, and I'm not looking forward to any of it lol.
 

100% agree that if we can build the program up to Wisc, Iowa consistency that is a win. Obviously our stadium doesn’t hold 70k, but that just means a legit sellout for most games would be great. (And get more lots near the stadium for tailgating too!)

You’re right that here and Midwest in general have lower housing costs. That bolsters my point: supply and demand. It’s a very adult thing. No one grows up dreaming of moving somewhere because of lower housing costs.

I’m talking about what young people want. Getting football players to come here, and now stay here!, is a young people wants thing, not adult wants thing.
 

Fleck reached his high water mark here in 2019. Next year, with the California teams joining, this season may look good in hindsight.
And, if he can't give up on Kaliakmanis, he will be lost for years (if we are dumb enough to keep him - and we are usually pretty dumb).
 

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