Fleck: “By 2019, I will be able to fix the issues, but we will be young."

[Spoofin]

About as big of a joke as Claeys laughing at a recruit when the kid mentioned competing for a B1G Ten title. Let’s get him back. He was super duper awesome.

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Why bring up Claeys? What TC said was dumb. Does that make it OK for PJ to basically tell half his team they won't win a B1G Ten title? Mason had his stupid "if the phone rings" line so maybe its OK if PJ does something similar? I'm much more focused on what our current coach says than what our past coaches said.


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[Tucker32]

Fleck: “By 2019, I will be able to fix the issues, but we will be young."

Nm

 

[short ornery norwegian]

this maybe deserves its own thread, but what I see as the ultimate question here is this: what is the true, realistic ceiling for this program?

Mind you, we are talking present day. Yeah, I know the Gophers won national titles, but that was in a different era, in a very different college FB landscape.

In today's college FB landscape, what is the best possible scenario for the Gopher FB program?

As an older fan, I've seen some competitive Gopher teams, and a lot of non-competitive Gopher teams. I like competitive. I like winning 8 games and going to a bowl game I've actually heard of before. If that is "settling for mediocrity," so be it. I'll take 8 wins and a bowl game over this year's mess.

If you think Fleck can actually get this program to a point where they contend for a national championship, more power to you. I'll say it flat out - I think that is a fantasy.

In my honest opinion - and yes, I'm trying to be honest here - I see the Gophers' ceiling - absolute best-case scenario - 9 or 10 wins and maybe play for a conference title once a decade. that's it. Unless some MN version of Phil Knight comes in and dumps millions of dollars into the program, that is the best I see for this program.

The Gophers were not great under Kill and Claeys - but they didn't suck, either. I looked forward to Gopher games, win or lose. Now, I don't look forward to games the same way. I DVR'ed the Iowa game, and once I found out they lost, I erased it. Never watched it. Just don't care that much anymore.

 

[Panthadad2]

No, the new board you are looking for is the PJ fan club. Some of you just can’t stand that there are others who aren’t sniffing his jock like you.


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Jock sniffing? That would be stinky. No. I choose to be optimistic and entrepreneurial, with occasional bitching, instead of being constantly cynical and cancerous. I don't understand how a true fan can constantly complain; otherwise, why bother? Serious question, you have named-dropped several times about meeting PJ in person. Did he personally offend you somehow? Do you have a personal beef?

 

[John Galt]

Why bring up Claeys? What TC said was dumb. Does that make it OK for PJ to basically tell half his team they won't win a B1G Ten title? Mason had his stupid "if the phone rings" line so maybe its OK if PJ does something similar? I'm much more focused on what our current coach says than what our past coaches said.


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Except PJ never said anything remotely like that.

 

[scools12]

Fleck: “By 2019, I will be able to fix the issues, but we will be young."

The Gophers were not great under Kill and Claeys - but they didn't suck, either. I looked forward to Gopher games, win or lose. Now, I don't look forward to games the same way. I DVR'ed the Iowa game, and once I found out they lost, I erased it. Never watched it. Just don't care that much anymore.

8 games into this regime’s tenure and acting like the 8-9 game winning season plateau will never be reached again.

Might as well shut the whole program down as we’ll never again reach the heights of the previous coaching staff.




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[HoustonTXGopher]

8 games into this regime’s tenure and acting like the 8-9 game winning season plateau will never be reached again.

Might as well shut the whole program down as we’ll never again reach the heights of the previous coaching staff.






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Fleck was specifically hired so that we wouldn't have to suffer through any more 8-9 win seasons

 

[MNVCGUY]

I honestly thought this post was fake news, because no head coach would be working so hard to reduce expectations for years going forward. But then I clicked on the link, and there is nothing fake about it. But given the year-zero comments, perhaps I shouldn't have been surprised. I also think Fleck hurts himself by making comments like these. IMO, Fleck is doing many things right in year one, but his self-serving language is not one of them.

Apparently nobody remembers Kill saying it would take at least 6 years to compete.

And people really need to read the whole story and not just the part that is posted. He isn't saying we are going to suck or not try to win. There are some real personnel issues on this team that are going to take a few years to correct. Look at what we have on the DL and especially what we will have next year, the previous regime left some major holes on top of not being able to recruit good QBs and WR. Fleck has to find those guys and get them developed and ready to play, that doesn't happen overnight. People will point to Iowa State but that came out of nowhere and quick turnarounds like that are the exception and not the rule in most cases. Plus they have to prove that this is not just a flash in the pan with players from the previous regime.

Way too many are looking at the record from last year and assuming that all was well. When you don't have a capable QB on your roster and are thin in other areas as well it is really hard to be a good team. Regardless of who was the head coach this team was going to be in for a tough year this year and the outlook for next year is not a ton better given who we graduate.

 

[GO4INLALALAND]

Fleck was specifically hired so that we wouldn't have to suffer through any more 8-9 win seasons

Exactly. Coyle said how Minnesota needed a culture change. The brain trust of Coyle and Kaler, knowing how we were so dissatisfied with 9 win seasons, since that has been the norm here for far too long, fired Claeys so we could get a coach in here who would change the culture and bring us national championships, instead of just 9 win seasons. I am liking this culture change.

 

[scools12]

Fleck was specifically hired so that we wouldn't have to suffer through any more 8-9 win seasons

He wasn’t specifically hired to end all the suffering in the first year.


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[Great Plains Gopher]

“By ’19, I will be able to fix the issues, but we will be young,” Fleck said Monday. “We will be older with some youth, developing depth, creating depth. Then when you hit ’20, that’s when you see a spike in, ‘Holy cow, they’re good. They’re deep, and they are becoming experienced. Wow.’

This is a joke, right?
If not then PJ is the joke.


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Keep posting - when I check the chat lines of other teams I see how few people post here and how few topics are developed. No one has to read every post on every thread.

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

How can he be so short sighted and insecure? All his talk of better athletes on the other team, the more experience on the other team, not good until 2019, etc etc. What's he thinking the present players are thinking?
Please don't fire me before my 5 years are up....it's going to take time. Patience... we have had 6 coaches in 11 years....he's said it so much I have memorized it. Who cares. You are the coach now. Win today. Find a way. Everybody deserves it. They don't need to hear: Please don't fire me because I'm going to lose games for a few years. But boy, you wait! We'll be good. I did it once before.

Here's next week after Michigan or Wisconsin or somebody. I'm so proud of these guys. We have won four games this year. I'm surprised. I really wasn't sure we'd win any! Ski U mah Row the Boat! Thanks for being here.

Tomorrow is promised to nobody! Planning to be good out loud in 2020 is selfish and dumb. Yes, you have a plan. Yes, you change your best each day. But not by sacrificing two and three years out loud to your team telling them we'll be terrible until we get new players. Sheeeeesh.

In 2019 the schedule is favorable. We better be better!

Matt Campbell is in his second year at Iowa State. Doesn't talk a lot about '19 and '20.

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

this maybe deserves its own thread, but what I see as the ultimate question here is this: what is the true, realistic ceiling for this program?

Mind you, we are talking present day. Yeah, I know the Gophers won national titles, but that was in a different era, in a very different college FB landscape.

In today's college FB landscape, what is the best possible scenario for the Gopher FB program?

As an older fan, I've seen some competitive Gopher teams, and a lot of non-competitive Gopher teams. I like competitive. I like winning 8 games and going to a bowl game I've actually heard of before. If that is "settling for mediocrity," so be it. I'll take 8 wins and a bowl game over this year's mess.

If you think Fleck can actually get this program to a point where they contend for a national championship, more power to you. I'll say it flat out - I think that is a fantasy.

In my honest opinion - and yes, I'm trying to be honest here - I see the Gophers' ceiling - absolute best-case scenario - 9 or 10 wins and maybe play for a conference title once a decade. that's it. Unless some MN version of Phil Knight comes in and dumps millions of dollars into the program, that is the best I see for this program.

The Gophers were not great under Kill and Claeys - but they didn't suck, either. I looked forward to Gopher games, win or lose. Now, I don't look forward to games the same way. I DVR'ed the Iowa game, and once I found out they lost, I erased it. Never watched it. Just don't care that much anymore.

Maybe "starting over fatigue" is setting in, especially for older fans. We started over with Stoll, Salem, Holtz, Gutekunst, Wacker, Mason, Brewster, Kill, Claeys, and now P.J. Of these, only Mason got anywhere near the gold ring, ALMOST tying for the title twice in 10 years. Wisconsin and Iowa have had longtime programs of continued success. We could, too. That's why people are frustrated with this season, which is far worse than last season: could be 1-8 in conference. Hope not, but any win in the next four games will be a big upset. The stadium could be half empty next year.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

Maybe "starting over fatigue" is setting in, especially for older fans. We started over with Stoll, Salem, Holtz, Gutekunst, Wacker, Mason, Brewster, Kill, Claeys, and now P.J. Of these, only Mason got anywhere near the gold ring, ALMOST tying for the title twice in 10 years. Wisconsin and Iowa have had longtime programs of continued success. We could, too. That's why people are frustrated with this season, which is far worse than last season: could be 1-8 in conference. Hope not, but any win in the next four games will be a big upset. The stadium could be half empty next year.

Yeah, that's a good term. Exactly what ails me. Been through each and every one you just mentioned. Thanks.

 

[EG#9]

PJ's in a no win spot with a lot of vocal posters on this board. I am not at all surprised with the Gophers struggling this year, but I am surprised that long time posters are literally repeating the exact same patterns that some posters (maybe some of the same guys) exhibited in the transition from Mason to Brewster. Somehow people who follow the program closely enough to rack up thousands of posts on a fan board are incapable of a)noting the trajectory of their own program and realize whether they are on a talent upswing or downswing and b) not that teams the are non-powers almost always struggle in their first year under a new coach. Yet somehow, he's supposed to come in and win immediately.

The Gophers played a very competitive game with Purdue at home in 2016 with a better team. Purdue lead at halftime and had the ball with 3:30 left down 37-31. It shouldn't shock anyone that the Gophers lost a very competitive game with Purdue on the road in 2017, but it certainly did. The Gophers also needed a fg in the last seconds to beat Rutgers at home. Does that Rutgers win at home remind you of Mason's last team needing a blocked field goal to hold on against North Dakota State? Maybe that should have been a warning to many of you seeing as that '05 team also graduated its long time starting QB (Cupito) and best passing game target (Spaeth)? The arrow wasn't pointing up here especially after the incident that lead to some of the best young talent being expelled...again sound familiar to '05 when Dom Jones, Alex Daniels and others were shown the door after a similar situation?

Finally, two points about that Washington State game: 1. The secondary that everyone rightly gave Claeys and Sawvel a massive amount of credit for coaching around included normal S starters Travis and McGhee with both Ayinde and Huff to back them up and at CB they still had normal starter Myrick with Craighton and Durr playing opposite him (Durr injured during game). This years team has had times where only one original starter (Huff) has been available to play, against Iowa they were playing Ayinde and true Freshman Harris at the corners. A backup safety is currently our best CB. 2. The final score of the Washington State game was 17-12. The difference in the score in that game was a Mitch Leidner gift interception that was dropped and landed in Shannon Brooks arms for a fluke TD. Think how many games this year could have been W's with a similar lucky break?

History has been pretty clear in that if a staff doesn't have a really good season in their first 4 years (and no 5-4 or 5-3 in conference play does not count as really good) at a job, that it won't happen. There's very, very few exceptions to this rule and the only one I remember offhand from doing the research is Frank Beamer at Virginia Tech. When it's been done at Northwestern, Iowa, Baylor, Wisconsin, Oregon, TCU, Purdue, Michigan State, even Ron Zook at Illinois..it's all been done in year 4 or earlier.

Years 3 and 4 were always going to be key, we can debate whether PJ should say anything publicly but the fact that so many loud voices (looking at you Reusse among others) don't understand how coaching changes work and have already started pilling on or mocking the man suggests that he needed to say something.

 

[Spoofin]

Fleck: “By 2019, I will be able to fix the issues, but we will be young."

Except PJ never said anything remotely like that.

We have had this conversation already. You can read what you want into his statement, but what I see is him saying we will still be young and developing in 2019 (year 3) and will finally see a spike in 2020 (year 4). Those were his words, not mine. IMO, that sends a terrible message to the players on this team that won't be around anymore in 3 years and is remotely close to saying they won't win a B1G title.


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[Balanced]

It's pom-pons...thank you very much. [emoji41]

Not necessarily, DPO II > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pom-pom

 

[MennoSota]

Not necessarily, DPO II > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pom-pom

[emoji23]

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

We have had this conversation already. You can read what you want into his statement, but what I see is him saying we will still be young and developing in 2019 (year 3) and will finally see a spike in 2020 (year 4). Those were his words, not mine. IMO, that sends a terrible message to the players on this team that won't be around anymore in 3 years and is remotely close to saying they won't win a B1G title.


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I read it as the truth, and if the older players want to accomplish their goals they need to work harder and get better.

 

[Heracles]

It's laughable that dissenting opinions makes you a "troll" "Hawkeye/Badger fan" etc.

If you want an echo chamber, why come here? This is like today's political climate, where everyone is slinging around racist Nazi fascist at everyone who doesn't agree with their stance on health care reform.

I'm really sorry for all of you that this isn't an echo chamber, and a safe place for your fragile sensibilities.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

It's laughable that dissenting opinions makes you a "troll" "Hawkeye/Badger fan" etc.

If you want an echo chamber, why come here? This is like today's political climate, where everyone is slinging around racist Nazi fascist at everyone who doesn't agree with their stance on health care reform.

I'm really sorry for all of you that this isn't an echo chamber, and a safe place for your fragile sensibilities.

You were the one posting misinformation after Saturday’s game to try and prove a point you didn’t have, so what echo chamber are you in?

 

[Spoofin]

I read it as the truth, and if the older players want to accomplish their goals they need to work harder and get better.

If that is PJ's goal then I would say he is picking the wrong forum. Just talk about Michigan PJ. I don't need to hear about how much we suck now and will in the future. The players don't either (in public). Talk about Michigan. Figure out how to use what you have instead of bitching about what you don't have and what you won't have for the next 2+ years.


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[GopherWeatherGuy]

If that is PJ's goal then I would say he is picking the wrong forum. Just talk about Michigan PJ. I don't need to hear about how much we suck now and will in the future. The players don't either (in public). Talk about Michigan. Figure out how to use what you have instead of bitching about what you don't have and what you won't have for the next 2+ years.


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Then stop listening to him, like you said you did.

 

[salzie]

If that is PJ's goal then I would say he is picking the wrong forum. Just talk about Michigan PJ. I don't need to hear about how much we suck now and will in the future. The players don't either (in public). Talk about Michigan. Figure out how to use what you have instead of bitching about what you don't have and what you won't have for the next 2+ years.


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He learned from Kill

 

[Spoofin]

Then stop listening to him, like you said you did.

I don't listen to him GWG. I do read GH, however.


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[MNVCGUY]

If that is PJ's goal then I would say he is picking the wrong forum. Just talk about Michigan PJ. I don't need to hear about how much we suck now and will in the future. The players don't either (in public). Talk about Michigan. Figure out how to use what you have instead of bitching about what you don't have and what you won't have for the next 2+ years.


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Again, if you read the entire piece and not just the excerpt you will see that he doesn't say we are going to suck he is just acknowledging the fact that there are holes to fill and that is going to take some time to get to where we truly want to be. Not sure how any one can dispute that when they look at this roster that has no QB, one developing solid receiver, basically nobody at DE, and a secondary that lost guys to graduation/expulsion and its best player to injury. Outside of Winfield's injury, the other three issues all would have been there under Claeys as well.

Brewster came in talking Rose Bowls and fans destroyed him for it when the performance on the field fell short. Kill came in talking about a 6 year plan to get back to competing and people loved him for it. Much of this is a Minnesota thing in terms of the personality, guys like Fleck who are positive and upbeat scare a lot of our fans. They respond much better to the "aww shucks, I'm just a down home country boy trying to win some football games" routine.

It is Fleck's first year, there are going to be growing pains, there would have been plenty of issues this year no matter who was in charge. As frustrating as it is to see the team struggle, this was going to be a transition year roster wise based on what we lost and what we had coming back.

 

[Spoofin]

He learned from Kill

Again, why bring up the old staff? What does what PJ says or doesn't say now have anything to do with 2 coaches back?


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[WorkingMyTailOff]

You were the one posting misinformation after Saturday’s game to try and prove a point you didn’t have, so what echo chamber are you in?

I was just going to mention that Jeracles is definitely not a fan of the program. Look at his posts during the Iowa game thread.

 

[WorkingMyTailOff]

Bottom line is as a program we should be used to rebuilding and new coaches by now. Give this guy a chance and I think you will be happy with the outcome.

 

[salzie]

Again, why bring up the old staff? What does what PJ says or doesn't say now have anything to do with 2 coaches back?


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Fair enough, but most coaches do this, and a coach he worked for did this. It's in his blood