Firsthand impressions of Phil Nelson....

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Bob_Loblaw

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I attended the South Saint Paul v. Mankato West game tonight (11/11/11), and it was the first time I was able to see Phil Nelson play in person. It was a really close game until the very end of the 3rd/4th quarter. It was 14-7 late into the 3rd (might have even been the 4th) when SSP muffed a punt inside of their own 5 yard line. SSP is a running team and then they were forced to pass, and the wheels came off. However, it was nice to see Nelson challenged a bit.

Overall, I was impressed...

Throwing: He definitely has a good arm. Not to overuse too many cliches but he can certainly make all of the throws and is just a natural thrower. He threw the deep ball pretty accurately, and had zero problem quickly throwing the 10 yard out (he also has some nice HS WRs). His throwing was probably even better than I had imagined, he was as good of a thrower as i've seen in this state in a long time. I honestly can't remember the last QB i've seen who could throw as well as him. The closest person I could think of was Mauer, but I think Nelson has a quicker release and is more of a natural passer (I know, sounds like hyperbole).

Decision Making: I'll say it was decent. He could obviously read a defense, but lets face it, HS teams aren't super used to defending a kid like him and most of the reads were pretty easy. He did throw two INTs and they were both his fault. A SSP defender jumped a route in the endzone, and then he tried to pinch the ball into too tight of a spot and was picked off. He also seemed to get a tiny bit rattled when the game was close into the 3rd quarter. Don't get me wrong, he played well, but it was their defense and the special teams that really played well until the 4th. I wish Nelson would have played a little better competiton, because it would be interesting to have seen him playing against top tier caliber defenses, because SSP rattled him a bit and SSP isn't a top defense.

Running Ability: Don't take this the wrong way, but he wasn't as good of a runner as I thought he would be. He is pretty quick and he isn't unathletic, but he wasn't super impressive as a runner. He didn't look overly elusive and I didn't really see him run through people. Now, I do think he will still be a really good fit for our offense, but i'm not sure he is a considerably better runner than Weber.

Side notes: I also think I saw Maxx Williams (Waconia) at the game. It might not have been him, I just saw a pretty big red headed kid in a fully decorated Waconia starter jacket, and I assume it was him. He was chearing for Phil pretty hard and looked like he was probably 235+.

Also...keep in mind this is the only game i've seen him in person.
 

How could a 4.4 40 guy not be super impressive as a runner? One would think that he could moonwalk into the endzone on each play and still get separation from the defenders.

Thanks for the report, Bob! I'm looking forward to watching him in person, assuming MW makes it to the Dome.
 

So do you mean to say he won't be the starting QB from Day 1, as some on this board are already suggesting? (sarcasm) It seems that half the people on this board are ready to make our #1 QB, who is just starting to come on strong, to WR for 1 year so a true freshman can start next year....
 

Well that same group of people are idiots and obviously want to see all progress made so far late this season go out the window going into next season. Nelson redshirts next year while Gray finishes off his senior year strong (fingers crossed :D ) and officially hands over the reins to Nelson for his RSF year the following season granted he is ready to take the job and run with it by then. All in all, I'm jacked to see what this kid can do at the Big Ten level in Maroon and Gold!!!
 

Are the semis at the dome televised or just the finals?

Thanks
 


In the past it was finals only. Kato West has been the number one team all year and I would expect them to make the finals. The wide reciever for West seems to make the highlights every week. Impressions on him? DII?
 

I was at the West -South St. Paul game as well. 5th time I have seen West play. I agree with Bob's assessment of Nelson. SSP had more speed in Defensive backfield than what West has been seeing. I thought SSP did a very good job of defensing the spread. On a couple of 3rd and long they went with 2 DLmen. covered all receivers then blitzed LB. DBs came up extremely fast when Nelson ran and were sure tacklers. South St. Paul was well coached, had a very good game plan and carried out assignments well. They covered the long pass as well as I have seen against Nelson. The interception in the end zone was just a good play by the DB. The other the receiver had 3 DBs in the area and well defended. I was pleased to see West had to open up the playbook and run some plays they have not had to in other games. This game was a good challenge for West and Nelson. I'm sure the coaching staff learned some things for future games.
 

Southoftheriver said:
In the past it was finals only. Kato West has been the number one team all year and I would expect them to make the finals. The wide reciever for West seems to make the highlights every week. Impressions on him? DII?
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WR for West #81 is Hunter Friesen. Also played DB, had two of the West Interceptions. Listed at 5-10 166. His Dad says he runs a 4.4 - 4.5 40. Maybe too small for D1, but D2 for sure. Maybe Minnesota State in Mankato. Same size as Marcus Sherells when in college. WR, DB, pitch man on options and misdirection plays, returns punts and kickoffs.
 

station19 said:
Are the semis at the dome televised or just the finals?

Thanks
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I know last year when my high school made it to the dome the football players watched the other semi-final game on a projector in a teacher's room. I think it was streaming online.
 



A quicker release and more of a natural thrower than Mauer? Bob, I know you're a cretin guy so you obviously saw Mauer play. I'm honestly pretty shocked you would make that statement. Mauer was the best pure passer I've ever seen play MN highschool football, and the number 1 overall recruit in the country.

I think Nelson has the potential to be great, but IMO is nowhere close to the player Mauer was. Not many highschool QBs are.
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
Mauer was the best pure passer I've ever seen play MN highschool football, and the number 1 overall recruit in the country.
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I never saw Mauer play, but I think a pretty big reason why he was the #1 recruit in the nation was because of his size. If Nelson was ~6'5", with all else being equal, he might be a top 10 recruit. The rating agencies put WAY too much emphasis into height when rating a QB. It's important, but not the be all end all when it comes to a QB being good in college.
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
A quicker release and more of a natural thrower than Mauer? Bob, I know you're a cretin guy so you obviously saw Mauer play. I'm honestly pretty shocked you would make that statement. Mauer was the best pure passer I've ever seen play MN highschool football, and the number 1 overall recruit in the country.

I think Nelson has the potential to be great, but IMO is nowhere close to the player Mauer was. Not many highschool QBs are.
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Not only that, but Mauer was my HS QB when I played. I didn't really mean it as a dig to Mauer and maybe Joe could have done some of the things that Nelson could do.

Mauer had an absolutely gigantic arm and could make all of the throws, but he had sort of a slow delivery and a large windup. He was almost perfect as a QB, but he had the luxury of taking his time, setting his feet and then throwing. Our team was loaded with so much talent that Joe had all the time in the world and everyteam had to stack the box because our RB was Rashon Powers-Neal (Notre Dame RB).

Joe was great, but I don't think Joe would have been as effective as Nelson in a wide open/spread system, especially if he had to make quick throws and make throws on the run.

I guess a comparison (not comparing ability but style) would be like Rodgers and Brady. Mauer was more like a Brady, who was absolutely deadly in the pocket when he had time, but Nelson is more like Rodgers, he's better on the move, better when the play breaks down, and doesn't need to set his feet to make the perfect throw.

About the WR for West - - Friesen (spelling?) - -

He was really impressive, it was hard to really determine his size, but he was pretty fast. He was considerably faster than a kid for SSP that I know is legitimately fast. He's a really good receiver, runs good routes and is fast. I'd love for the kid to walk on at the U. If he is really 5'11", I think he would eventually make an impact.
 

Prep 45 and Grandstadium.tv stream the Semi Finals and Finals live. Everything prior to that is done regionally.
 



Thank you for the great report. I'm looking forward to watching Nelson develop. We have had solid QB recruits for several years, but we haven't found that truly magical guy like Drew Brees, Kellen Moore, or Tim Tebow that elevates the entire program.

Mankato West vs. Bemidji might be the real state Championship game. The Lumberjacks closest game this year was against an always solid Brainerd team, which they won by two touchdowns. I'd be curious to read opinions on Bemidji WR Carey Woods following that game. I've read he's a really good basketball player, so I don't know if football is in his future, but his monster stats would indicate that Kill's staff should give him a look.
 

Really, more of a natural passer than Mauer? That seems like really lofty praise for a QB with only 1 offer, yes I understand he committed early.
 

Bob, I didn't see Mauer that much, but I agree that his release was a bit on the slow side. As you said, had a bit of a long wind-up.
 

So would we want to redshirt this QB or throw him out there and move Gray to WR. I know there has been lot of talk about Gray at WR but he has to realize he could be a NFL WR if he has a solid Sr. year at that position.
 

He could be an NFL WR if he never plays another snap at the position.
 

Gray could be an NFL WR regardless of where he plays next year.
 

Parski1 said:
So would we want to redshirt this QB or throw him out there and move Gray to WR. I know there has been lot of talk about Gray at WR but he has to realize he could be a NFL WR if he has a solid Sr. year at that position.
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Redshirt Nelson. No point in throwing him into the line of fire as a true freshmen. Let him learn the offense throughout his redshirt year.
 

Parski1 said:
So would we want to redshirt this QB or throw him out there and move Gray to WR. I know there has been lot of talk about Gray at WR but he has to realize he could be a NFL WR if he has a solid Sr. year at that position.
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Like Matt Jones or Antwan Randle-El?
 

I'm as impatient as the next guy, but we are at a point in our rebuilding process that makes it pointless to rush Nelson. If he is, in fact, the slightly better QB next year, I still think it's to our benefit to redshirt him. Not only will it help HIM learn the offense, but his teammates will be that much more advanced in the system so they can all hit the ground running in 2013. I'm not the coach, though, and I'm sure Kill will do whatever is best for the program.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I attended the South Saint Paul v. Mankato West game tonight (11/11/11), and it was the first time I was able to see Phil Nelson play in person. It was a really close game until the very end of the 3rd/4th quarter. It was 14-7 late into the 3rd (might have even been the 4th) when SSP muffed a punt inside of their own 5 yard line. SSP is a running team and then they were forced to pass, and the wheels came off. However, it was nice to see Nelson challenged a bit.

Overall, I was impressed...

Throwing: He definitely has a good arm. Not to overuse too many cliches but he can certainly make all of the throws and is just a natural thrower. He threw the deep ball pretty accurately, and had zero problem quickly throwing the 10 yard out (he also has some nice HS WRs). His throwing was probably even better than I had imagined, he was as good of a thrower as i've seen in this state in a long time. I honestly can't remember the last QB i've seen who could throw as well as him. The closest person I could think of was Mauer, but I think Nelson has a quicker release and is more of a natural passer (I know, sounds like hyperbole).

Decision Making: I'll say it was decent. He could obviously read a defense, but lets face it, HS teams aren't super used to defending a kid like him and most of the reads were pretty easy. He did throw two INTs and they were both his fault. A SSP defender jumped a route in the endzone, and then he tried to pinch the ball into too tight of a spot and was picked off. He also seemed to get a tiny bit rattled when the game was close into the 3rd quarter. Don't get me wrong, he played well, but it was their defense and the special teams that really played well until the 4th. I wish Nelson would have played a little better competiton, because it would be interesting to have seen him playing against top tier caliber defenses, because SSP rattled him a bit and SSP isn't a top defense.

Running Ability: Don't take this the wrong way, but he wasn't as good of a runner as I thought he would be. He is pretty quick and he isn't unathletic, but he wasn't super impressive as a runner. He didn't look overly elusive and I didn't really see him run through people. Now, I do think he will still be a really good fit for our offense, but i'm not sure he is a considerably better runner than Weber.

Side notes: I also think I saw Maxx Williams (Waconia) at the game. It might not have been him, I just saw a pretty big red headed kid in a fully decorated Waconia starter jacket, and I assume it was him. He was chearing for Phil pretty hard and looked like he was probably 235+.

Also...keep in mind this is the only game i've seen him in person.
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Sounds like a fair evaluation. It's going to be hard to find the whole package in 3-star recruits. Hopefully he continues to develop and become an impact player in college.
 

Talk of changing QBs again next year throws out Gray's progress this year. I think his play at MSU is idicitive of his abilities. With two more games, a spring, and fall practices, Gray is going to continue to improve and help us win games next year. And it's not all on Gray, his teamates are learning and they haven't all been on the same page.
Did we forget about Shortell? I think he'll be number 2 next year. He showed flashes of brilliance but then struggled. I think Nelson would have the same learning curve only with the possibility of getting pounded as a running QB. Redshirt him for a year and then we'll have a heck of a QB competition in 2013. Maybe Shortell will beat out Nelson. Good problem to have. We'll see how the coaches can utilize the players.
 

Big difference in Mauer and Nelson. Nelson can take a hit, Mauer would be sitting on the bench nursing his whatever after week one.
 

CarterAveKing said:
Did we forget about Shortell? I think he'll be number 2 next year. He showed flashes of brilliance but then struggled. I think Nelson would have the same learning curve only with the possibility of getting pounded as a running QB. Redshirt him for a year and then we'll have a heck of a QB competition in 2013. Maybe Shortell will beat out Nelson. Good problem to have. We'll see how the coaches can utilize the players.
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I was wondering when someone would bring up Shortell again. After the USC game fans were calling for him to start at QB since they saw him as the future of the program. Now he is an after thought for a lot of people as all the talk is about Nelson and this love affair people have with the guy. Don't get me wrong I hope he pans out but there is way to much expectation being put on a guy that is still in High School. There is no way to know how he will adjust to the college game, he could be great, he could be someone that needs a few years to develop, or he could be a guy that never makes it.
 

#2Gopher said:
Big difference in Mauer and Nelson. Nelson can take a hit, Mauer would be sitting on the bench nursing his whatever after week one.
Click to expand...

That's certainly how it appears to be now, but in HS, Joe wasn't like that at all. I never thought of him as a soft player.
 

DrunkGopher said:
Really, more of a natural passer than Mauer? That seems like really lofty praise for a QB with only 1 offer, yes I understand he committed early.
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I'm not a professional evaluator of talent, so don't get hung up on that single sentence, I could be wrong about him and Mauer. It was just a personal observation, Mauer never really had to read a defense, Mauer never had to check down to a hot route, Nelson does. Could Mauer have? Probably. But he didn't have to in HS.

(Tommy Olson only had 1 offer)
 

You guys seem to forget the huge adjustment to college from high school not counting being a big time FB player. Remember when Kill said Shortell kind of hit the wall? It's not unusual kids especially QB's need at least a red-shirt yr, usually 2 yrs. regardless of talent, just in maturity.
 

Phil Nelson Game Observation

I was at the Mankato West-SS Paul game at Chanhassen Friday night to see Nelson play for the first time. I plan on taking Friday afternoon off to see how he does vs. Bemidji at the HHH. Seeing him play a 2nd time will help me formulate a better take on him.

First impressions were good. He does throw very well. He is mobile and Mankato West does run the same basic offense as the current Gopher squad.

Should he be red-shirted next year? Maybe. The coaches will not need to make that decision until much later.

It was good to see him play in a close game (1st 3 quarters anyway), this being a state quarter-final game.

My take is that he does not have 4.4 speed as was shared earlier his fall on GH. Perhaps 4.5 to 4.6. He did not run away from anyone when he had the opportunity downfield on runs in the open field. Yes, he has a quick release and throws a very catchable ball.

I like him. This Friday vs. Bemidji will tell me more.
 

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