Fired Colo HC Jon Embree on black coaches: "We get bad jobs and no time to fix it."

[BleedGopher]

Fired Colo HC Jon Embree on black coaches: "We get bad jobs and no time to fix it."

CU's administration will likely get some heat from the Black Coaches Association. It came down hard on Kansas last year after it fired Turner Gill, an African-American coach who lasted only two years. Embree was one of 14 African-American head coaches in major-college football.

"I mentioned that to Mike," Embree said. "You know we don't get opportunities. At the end of the day, you get fired and that's it, right, wrong or indifferent. (Former Notre Dame coach) Tyrone Willingham was the only one who got fired and got hired again. We get bad jobs and no time to fix it."

http://www.denverpost.com/cu/ci_220...lorado-buffaloes-football-coach#ixzz2DLivc4Zz

Go Gophers!!

 

[dpodoll68]

Oh please. You didn't get fired because you're black. You got fired because you did a horsesh1t job.

 

[wait!what?]

Embree was black?

 

[John Galt]

CU hiring Embree was a head-scratcher from the beginning. An NFL tight end coach with no previous head coaching experience? Didn't they pay attention to what happened here!

 

[beavergopher]

Oh please. You didn't get fired because you're black. You got fired because you did a horsesh1t job.

For once I agree with you 100%.

 

[50PoundHead]

CU hiring Embree was a head-scratcher from the beginning. An NFL tight end coach with no previous head coaching experience? Didn't they pay attention to what happened here!

That's the bigger problem here. I think Embree would have a more legitimate gripe if he had been truly prepared to handle the position for which he was hired. Guys like Embree and Brewster know more football than I'll ever know, but the head coaching position has almost become that of "football CEO" and I think you have to have hands-on training to fully understand the nature of the role.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Don't believe race played into it but I don't like this trend that is starting to develop of pulling the plug after 2 years. Every coach should get a minimum of 4 years to do some recruiting and show signs of progress, pulling the plug after 2 without a major scandal or administration change is just not fair to the coach in question. As an AD if you hire the guy you should at least give him a chance to get things moving in the right direction, and 2 years is just not enough time.

 

[btowngopher]

White coaches who have never even been coordinators are typically handed gigs at perennial powerhouses. HC of Colorado seems like a decent opportunity considering the guys resume.

 

[John Galt]

Don't believe race played into it but I don't like this trend that is starting to develop of pulling the plug after 2 years. Every coach should get a minimum of 4 years to do some recruiting and show signs of progress, pulling the plug after 2 without a major scandal or administration change is just not fair to the coach in question. As an AD if you hire the guy you should at least give him a chance to get things moving in the right direction, and 2 years is just not enough time.

I generally agree with giving coaches some time, but there is no way they couldn't fire Embree. There are some out there that are critical of Kill after a 6-6 season in year 2. Embree was 1-11 and the Buffaloes were absolutely embarrassed in most of their games. They lost to Sacramento St., a team that went 4-4 in the Big Sky conference and lost to North Dakota (not NDSU) 35-13. Similar to our situation with Brewster, the bigger question to ask is why he was hired in the first place.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/38/colorado-buffaloes

 

[stocker08]

The Buffalos looked like the worst team in any power conference. You got the job in the first place and now that you get fired, you play the race card? Give me a break. Two years is a short amount of time to turn a team around......but Colorado was downright pathetic the past couple years. Look at Gene Chizik. He won a National Championship a couple years ago and is now sitting without a job. Want to talk about unfair? College football is highly competitive. If you perceive a Head Coaching job as bad, don't take it.

 

[Gopherprof]

I don't think he's entirely wrong, but certainly could have phrased it better.

Every new coach finds themselves in crummy situations regardless of race because the good jobs rarely become available. This disproportionately effects black coaches because there are so few of them established in the league. That's not a matter of race, but simply the reality of being an unproven college football coach, black or white.

That said, I don't think anyone should be fired after two years unless they break the law or commit major violations.

 

[John Galt]

I don't think he's entirely wrong, but certainly could have phrased it better.

Every new coach finds themselves in crummy situations regardless of race because the good jobs rarely become available. This disproportionately effects black coaches because there are so few of them established in the league. That's not a matter of race, but simply the reality of being an unproven college football coach, black or white.

That said, I don't think anyone should be fired after two years unless they break the law or commit major violations.

So if the Gophers were 1-11 with the only win coming against UNH by 1 point, and we had losses by the scores of 70-14, 69-14, 50-6, 51-17, and 48-0, you wouldn't think it was time to fire the head coach?

 

[Dr.Don]

All about 2 things:

1. Money;
2, Instant Gratification Generation.


IMO, 2 years is not even close enough time to give a major college coach a chance.

Mark my word, the Instant Gratification Generation concept will soon move down to the High School Level.

 

[Dr.Don]

So if the Gophers were 1-11 with the only win coming against UNH by 1 point, and we had losses by the scores of 70-14, 69-14, 50-6, 51-17, and 48-0, you wouldn't think it was time to fire the head coach?

John Galt, you have made that comment a possible nomination for the dpodoll 68 dumbassery award.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

So if the Gophers were 1-11 with the only win coming against UNH by 1 point, and we had losses by the scores of 70-14, 69-14, 50-6, 51-17, and 48-0, you wouldn't think it was time to fire the head coach?

I would certainly be ready for a change if that had been what we saw this year. Saying that Embree didn't "fix it" this year is a pretty gross understatement for how badly Colorado played.

 

[Sportsfan24]

Oh please. You didn't get fired because you're black. You got fired because you did a horsesh1t job.

That's a pretty strong opinion; what are you basing it on? How can you conclusively say that he is wrong?

Me? I think there is some legitimacy in what he said. However, I don't believe he is the right person to say it. After all he at least got an opportunity. Black coaches numerically do not get the same opportunities that their counter parts get. However it is hard to compare the quality of jobs. Jobs that come open, usually come open for a reason....as in the previous coach didn't win. I think we would have to look at the percentage of coaches racially that get jobs at winning programs were the previous coach resigns versus jobs at losing programs.

I haven't done enough research or given it enough thought to form a strong opinion one way or the other. He may be correct but he should never have made that statement publicly without offering some data to substaniate his opinion.

 

[John Galt]

John Galt, you have made that comment a possible nomination for the dpodoll 68 dumbassery award.

Any D-1 program in America would fire the head coach if they had a year as bad as CU just had. It's pretty simple.

 

[STPGopher]

I don't think he's entirely wrong, but certainly could have phrased it better.

Every new coach finds themselves in crummy situations regardless of race because the good jobs rarely become available. This disproportionately effects black coaches because there are so few of them established in the league. That's not a matter of race, but simply the reality of being an unproven college football coach, black or white.

That said, I don't think anyone should be fired after two years unless they break the law or commit major violations.

Expanding this thought, few are given the resources necessary to do the job effectively.

 

[MNVCGUY]

That's a pretty strong opinion; what are you basing it on? How can you conclusively say that he is wrong?

Me? I think there is some legitimacy in what he said. However, I don't believe he is the right person to say it. After all he at least got an opportunity. Black coaches numerically do not get the same opportunities that their counter parts get. However it is hard to compare the quality of jobs. Jobs that come open, usually come open for a reason....as in the previous coach didn't win. I think we would have to look at the percentage of coaches racially that get jobs at winning programs were the previous coach resigns versus jobs at losing programs.

I haven't done enough research or given it enough thought to form a strong opinion one way or the other. He may be correct but he should never have made that statement publicly without offering some data to substaniate his opinion.

I agree the ratio of black to white head coaches is way out of whack in college football. I wonder though if comments like the ones made by Embree don't cause more harm than good in the long run. Part of the reason that AD's may be afraid to hire a black coach is the fear of having the race card thrown around if/when the time comes to make a change.

 

[dpodoll68]

How can you conclusively say that he is wrong?

David Shaw
Kevin Sumlin
Charlie Strong
Mike London
Ruffin McNeill
Turner Gill
Randy Shannon
Tyrone Willingham
Dennis Green

All are/were black coaches given pretty decent-to-great jobs. That negates the "we get bad jobs" part. All were given adequate time to build a program, and the ones who did a bad job were shown the door. That negates the "no time to fix it" part. David Shaw and Kevin Sumlin, for example, are both coaching Top 10 teams as we speak and neither one has been given his pink slip on the basis of his skin color.

Embree was right - he did get a bad job, and he got no time to fix it. Neither of those things have anything to do with his race. By most anyone's account, he was thoroughly unqualified to receive the job (think Brewster with far, far less experience) and did a terrible job once he got it. Again, he got fired because he sucked, not because he's black. He had a very short leash and very short job duration because he epically, historically sucked - not because he's black.

 

[Gopherprof]

So if the Gophers were 1-11 with the only win coming against UNH by 1 point, and we had losses by the scores of 70-14, 69-14, 50-6, 51-17, and 48-0, you wouldn't think it was time to fire the head coach?

The Gophers, believe it or not, were in better shape than what Embree got at Colorado. Read the linked article. He had 8 seniors this year. 8!!!

But, no, I wouldn't. You can't fire a head coach after two years. You just can't. Even if Embree isn't the guy (and he's very likely not), it essentially waives the white flag and says that literally nobody in your organization has any idea what they are doing. If you hire a guy and then fire him two years later, you should resign as an AD and every player that signed with your program should be given a waiver to transfer to a program that has some idea what the *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# it's doing.

 

[Sportsfan24]

The Buffalos looked like the worst team in any power conference. You got the job in the first place and now that you get fired, you play the race card? Give me a break. Two years is a short amount of time to turn a team around......but Colorado was downright pathetic the past couple years. Look at Gene Chizik. He won a National Championship a couple years ago and is now sitting without a job. Want to talk about unfair? College football is highly competitive. If you perceive a Head Coaching job as bad, don't take it.

You make some good points about the nature of college football. I would had two things:

1. I hate the term race card; the user of this term reduces the legitmacy of a person claim without having to justify their belief to it being a non issue (you did offer up some valid reasons). We would not use the term rape card or child abuse card?

2. Like a coach of any racial make-up, you will take whatever job you can get. However, I don't believe it's fair to say to a black coach who won't get the same opportunities as his counter part "if you don't like the one messed up opportunity you get, don't take it."

I would tell the coach; My man, you took the job knowing you had to be twice as good to be considered equal. Why are you complaining? Not only were you not twice as good....you may have been twice as bad. There are plenty of brothers with twice your resume who aren't getting jobs...have a coke and a smile and shut the "heck" up.

 

[Sportsfan24]

The Gophers, believe it or not, were in better shape than what Embree got at Colorado. Read the linked article. He had 8 seniors this year. 8!!!

But, no, I wouldn't. You can't fire a head coach after two years. You just can't. Even if Embree isn't the guy (and he's very likely not), it essentially waives the white flag and says that literally nobody in your organization has any idea what they are doing. If you hire a guy and then fire him two years later, you should resign as an AD and every player that signed with your program should be given a waiver to transfer to a program that some idea what the *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# it's doing.

Great points.

You can fire the guy....but aside from his staff, somebody should be going with him. Like the guy who hired him?

 

[Monty519]

I don't even disagree with his premise, but let's be honest here, 2 years is enough time to at least look like you're progressing. Now I'll admit, I didn't watch a single Colorado game, but when I look at the numbers from this past season, it's just unbelievable that the situation was SOOO bad that you can justify the beatings you received virtually every game. I mean, you expect some pastings, but there's gotta be some glimmers of hope there, you gotta compete some games, at least at home or something.

The AD should go too honestly, for hiring a guy with his resume, which lacked previous coaching experience. And considering you saw what happened here, I can't believe he was completely oblivious to it all.

 

[westcoastgopher11]

Guy had the worst season in Colorado history in his second year on the job. That's not going to endear you to anyone.

 

[John Galt]

The Gophers, believe it or not, were in better shape than what Embree got at Colorado. Read the linked article. He had 8 seniors this year. 8!!!

But, no, I wouldn't. You can't fire a head coach after two years. You just can't. Even if Embree isn't the guy (and he's very likely not), it essentially waives the white flag and says that literally nobody in your organization has any idea what they are doing. If you hire a guy and then fire him two years later, you should resign as an AD and every player that signed with your program should be given a waiver to transfer to a program that has some idea what the *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# it's doing.

I agree Embree inherited a worse situation than Kill, but when year 2 is worse than year 1, and it's the worst season in the history of your school, and it's possibly one of the top 10 worst teams of all-time in D-1 football, the decision has been made. They lost to Fresno St. 69-14 for crying out loud. The AD should share the blame and also be fired.

 

[Bo Darville]

White coaches who have never even been coordinators are typically handed gigs at perennial powerhouses. HC of Colorado seems like a decent opportunity considering the guys resume.

What "perennial powerhouses" are hiring random white guy head coaches who haven't even been coordinators?

 

[Sportsfan24]

David Shaw
Kevin Sumlin
Charlie Strong
Mike London
Ruffin McNeill
Turner Gill
Randy Shannon
Tyrone Willingham
Dennis Green

All are/were black coaches given pretty decent-to-great jobs. That negates the "we get bad jobs" part. All were given adequate time to build a program, and the ones who did a bad job were shown the door. That negates the "no time to fix it" part. David Shaw and Kevin Sumlin, for example, are both coaching Top 10 teams as we speak and neither one has been given his pink slip on the basis of his skin color.

Embree was right - he did get a bad job, and he got no time to fix it. Neither of those things have anything to do with his race. By most anyone's account, he was thoroughly unqualified to receive the job (think Brewster with far, far less experience) and did a terrible job once he got it. Again, he got fired because he sucked, not because he's black. He had a very short leash and very short job duration because he epically, historically sucked - not because he's black.

Huh? What you talking about Willis?

Gill 1st job was has the head coach of Buffalo.

Green's first 2 jobs were Stanford and Northwestern....prior to them becoming winning football teams.

Ty Willingham, Stanford where he was successful and then Notre Dame were he became the 1st ND coach to not be allowed to complete his contract after going 6-5. His predessor won "7" games the next year and was awards a $Zillion dollar contract extension ($20 mil?)....who knew one win was so valuable.

I could keep going but I'm lazy and it doesn't pertain to this conversation because I agree you with you on Embree. There was more than enough justification to go in another direction without there be a racial component.

 

[tikited]

Sounds like the perfect coach for Barker.

 

[dpodoll68]

Gill 1st job was has the head coach of Buffalo.

I'm talking about him getting the Kansas job. Pretty much any BCS job qualifies as at least a "decent" job. They were on a downward trend, but were still only 3 years removed from a BCS appearance when he got the job. He took a tenuous situation and made it worse.

Green's first 2 jobs were Stanford and Northwestern....prior to them becoming winning football teams.

Stanford is an historic program and was not then the job that it is now, but a job that almost any coach would like to have, even in the 1980s.

Ty Willingham

I don't think Notre Dame should've fired him (certainly at least not when they did), but the point is more that he was hired for the Stanford and Notre Dame jobs in the first place. Washington is no slouch job either.

We both agree - Embree's firing had little-to-nothing to do with his skin color.