Final St. Thomas vs St. Johns game to be played in U.S. Bank Stadium

[short ornery norwegian]

heard an interview with the St. John's coach (by who else, Mike Max) and that reminded me that a few years ago, the MIAC used to play a showcase series of games at the Metrodome at the end of the year. I think every team in the league played at least one game there. So the Tommie-Johnnie game has been played at a neutral site before.

Some interesting background in the interview on the decision to move the game to US Bank. This was St. John's turn to host, and the coach said they had every intention to play the game on campus, but when the "last game ever" stuff started, the demand for tickets was so great that they realized they could not accommodate the crowd on campus. St. John's can seat about 18,000 tops - and with a crowd that big, they have major issues with traffic and parking on campus. Last time the Tommie-Johnnie game was at St. John's, traffic was so bad that I-94 literally came to a dead stop.

So the St. John's folks agreed to move the game to US bank to give more fans a chance to attend. Interestingly enough, US Bank approached St. John's first, and St. John's said NO. Later, they changed their minds.

 

[Herd]

My guess is, with all the media coverage going into gameday, this is going to be pushing sellout territory.

As to which league, I'm hoping that they end up going all in, so to speak. I want to see Minnesota kids have a chance to stay home. I'm tired of seeing 25-30 Minnesotans playing football for NDSU... I'd rather see 'em in their home state. If St. Thomas does step up, I can see myself becoming a Tommie supporter.

There will be 30 kids from Minnesota on the Ndsu roster regardless of whether UST has DIII or DI football. Sorry, just the way it is.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

heard an interview with the St. John's coach (by who else, Mike Max) and that reminded me that a few years ago, the MIAC used to play a showcase series of games at the Metrodome at the end of the year. I think every team in the league played at least one game there. So the Tommie-Johnnie game has been played at a neutral site before.

Some interesting background in the interview on the decision to move the game to US Bank. This was St. John's turn to host, and the coach said they had every intention to play the game on campus, but when the "last game ever" stuff started, the demand for tickets was so great that they realized they could not accommodate the crowd on campus. St. John's can seat about 18,000 tops - and with a crowd that big, they have major issues with traffic and parking on campus. Last time the Tommie-Johnnie game was at St. John's, traffic was so bad that I-94 literally came to a dead stop.

So the St. John's folks agreed to move the game to US bank to give more fans a chance to attend. Interestingly enough, US Bank approached St. John's first, and St. John's said NO. Later, they changed their minds.

I'm guessing US Bank adjusted the numbers.

 

[Whytetale]

Don't care

 

[Schnauzer]

There will be 30 kids from Minnesota on the Ndsu roster regardless of whether UST has DIII or DI football. Sorry, just the way it is.

either you are suggesting those 30 kids would be the same 30 kids as if UST D1 didn't exist, or you are saying those 30 kids will be a watered down version of what you get now. I'm assuming you are saying the second part, correct? UST has way more than 30 MN kids on their D3 roster and it is only natural to assume as D1, their MN crop will be improved - which cuts into NDSU. Sorry, just the way it is.

 

[Herd]

either you are suggesting those 30 kids would be the same 30 kids as if UST D1 didn't exist, or you are saying those 30 kids will be a watered down version of what you get now. I'm assuming you are saying the second part, correct? UST has way more than 30 MN kids on their D3 roster and it is only natural to assume as D1, their MN crop will be improved - which cuts into NDSU. Sorry, just the way it is.

If UST is playing non scholarship FB, it will mostly be the same 30+. If they are in the same conference at the same scholarship level ( which I don’t see happening for many years, unless UST drops hockey), then UST might change the 30+ Kids heading towards Moorhead. Pretty sure Ndsu would welcome that challenge.

I hope there’s an opportunity for UST and NDSU to play soon. It would also be fun to see Ndsu play Mankato or Duluth sometime also. You never know what that gap is until you play. It’s easy assume there’s a big gap, but MN SDSU was a good reminder of “on any given day”.

 

[4four4]

If UST is playing non scholarship FB, it will mostly be the same 30+. If they are in the same conference at the same scholarship level ( which I don’t see happening for many years, unless UST drops hockey), then UST might change the 30+ Kids heading towards Moorhead. Pretty sure Ndsu would welcome that challenge.

I hope there’s an opportunity for UST and NDSU to play soon. It would also be fun to see Ndsu play Mankato or Duluth sometime also. You never know what that gap is until you play. It’s easy assume there’s a big gap, but MN SDSU was a good reminder of “on any given day”.

I disagree. UST will use other financial resources to make sure non scholarship FB players come to St. Thomas and play football. They are currently doing it at the D3 level and I fully expect them to do it when they are in D1 sports. So there will be some kids who stay in the Twin Cities and not go to school in Fargo. Moreover, in the years ahead if there is any school in the midwest who can create a rivalry with the schools in the Summit it will be St. Thomas.

 

[MplsGopher]

They easily could .... if they were able/willing to spend the money. That’s the long and short of it.

 

[die hard gopher]

either you are suggesting those 30 kids would be the same 30 kids as if UST D1 didn't exist, or you are saying those 30 kids will be a watered down version of what you get now. I'm assuming you are saying the second part, correct? UST has way more than 30 MN kids on their D3 roster and it is only natural to assume as D1, their MN crop will be improved - which cuts into NDSU. Sorry, just the way it is.

UST's crop of talent would definitely improve significantly but I wouldn't expect them to really cut into the caliber of player NDSU gets, at least for a while. It would cut more into the lower level FCS programs.

 

[disco]

It would also be fun to see Ndsu play Mankato or Duluth sometime also. You never know what that gap is until you play. It’s easy assume there’s a big gap, but MN SDSU was a good reminder of “on any given day”.

I don't think that will ever happen.

 

[Herd]

I disagree. UST will use other financial resources to make sure non scholarship FB players come to St. Thomas and play football. They are currently doing it at the D3 level and I fully expect them to do it when they are in D1 sports. So there will be some kids who stay in the Twin Cities and not go to school in Fargo. Moreover, in the years ahead if there is any school in the midwest who can create a rivalry with the schools in the Summit it will be St. Thomas.

Playing for a top team in the MVFC is a big sell vs playing in the Pioneer League where UST will likely land. It would be the FCS equivalent to playing in the B1G vs the Sunbelt, to help you understand, although in the FCS the Sunbelt would get a playoff berth. Ndsu is also paying FCOA to all their scholarship athletes, so UST will have work to do.

 

[MNfootballfan]

I am not a St. Thomas graduate, but one thing I know about the college is they do not do anything halfway or halfass. I don't see them playing in the Pioneer League.

St. Thomas would have a nice niche that would allow them to compete with the other FCS regional schools. They don't need the recruiting budget NDSU, UND, USD, SDSU hav... it is a lot cheaper to fly athletes/families in to MSP than it is Fargo, Vermillion, Grand Forks, and Sioux Falls, and not to mention there are a lot of FCS caliber players that are within 30 minutes of campus, etc.

I for one would enjoy a conference with the likes of SDSU, NDSU, UNI, USD, St Thomas, etc and I would casually follow it.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I am not a St. Thomas graduate, but one thing I know about the college is they do not do anything halfway or halfass. I don't see them playing in the Pioneer League.

St. Thomas would have a nice niche that would allow them to compete with the other FCS regional schools. They don't need the recruiting budget NDSU, UND, USD, SDSU hav... it is a lot cheaper to fly athletes/families in to MSP than it is Fargo, Vermillion, Grand Forks, and Sioux Falls, and not to mention there are a lot of FCS caliber players that are within 30 minutes of campus, etc.

I for one would enjoy a conference with the likes of SDSU, NDSU, UNI, USD, St Thomas, etc and I would casually follow it.

Eh, the budget increase required is going to be tremendous if they don't find a non scholarship league to put football in. I dont' think they've done anything like that before.... I hear they have big booster support but that aside they don't draw big numbers for football, and don't have a big place to play ....

They're going to be dumping a ton into that athletic department, EVERY YEAR, if they want to play some of those programs.

 

[Herd]

I am not a St. Thomas graduate, but one thing I know about the college is they do not do anything halfway or halfass. I don't see them playing in the Pioneer League.

St. Thomas would have a nice niche that would allow them to compete with the other FCS regional schools. They don't need the recruiting budget NDSU, UND, USD, SDSU hav... it is a lot cheaper to fly athletes/families in to MSP than it is Fargo, Vermillion, Grand Forks, and Sioux Falls, and not to mention there are a lot of FCS caliber players that are within 30 minutes of campus, etc.

I for one would enjoy a conference with the likes of SDSU, NDSU, UNI, USD, St Thomas, etc and I would casually follow it.

Currently UST has 22 sports (T&Fx2). To take that list to DI and sponsor BB, FB (FCS 63), and Hockey, they'll need what, $32million annually? They will need to cull some sports ($28 million) and consider football options ($22 millions for non-scholly) initially IMO. Just an opinion, feel free to disagree. UND was at 21 sports in DII, now 17 with a 28-29 million budget.

 

[MNfootballfan]

Currently UST has 22 sports (T&Fx2). To take that list to DI and sponsor BB, FB (FCS 63), and Hockey, they'll need what, $32million annually? They will need to cull some sports ($28 million) and consider football options ($22 millions for non-scholly) initially IMO. Just an opinion, feel free to disagree. UND was at 21 sports in DII, now 17 with a 28-29 million budget.

I have no inside information and truly just going as a casual observer. I just can't see a situation where they are not "all in" on this decision. I very well could be way wrong and I probably am.

 

[Herd]

I have no inside information and truly just going as a casual observer. I just can't see a situation where they are not "all in" on this decision. I very well could be way wrong and I probably am.

Yes, I know UST . . . and I know they'll be committed. Going DI is committed, but how committed will they be budget wise. Men's and Women's Hockey in DI is 10 million. Ask UND who no longer has women's hockey. UST will be spending to offset 63 schollys in football also. Men's sports are often hard hit is DI transitions.

 

[4four4]

It;s going to be interesting to see where the schools priorities will be in the coming years. Will they focus on football, hockey or basketball first before concentrating on another sport. I am an Auggie graduate and I can say the alumni base has plenty of money but it's a long process transitioning to D1. I will also follow this school casually.

 

[MplsGopher]

Currently UST has 22 sports (T&Fx2). To take that list to DI and sponsor BB, FB (FCS 63), and Hockey, they'll need what, $32million annually? They will need to cull some sports ($28 million) and consider football options ($22 millions for non-scholly) initially IMO. Just an opinion, feel free to disagree. UND was at 21 sports in DII, now 17 with a 28-29 million budget.

Including national level, NCHC hockey for only men (cut the women’s team to save money).

Unless UST has serious, serious moneybags rich uncles who are going to, exactly as you say, bootstrap their athletic budget up to $3x million/yr, from what $4 million/yr, just so they can be top level in Missouri Valley football, Summit b-ball, and NCHC hockey .... not sure if that makes sense. The last one is the only high-major, but it’s a niche sport nationally.

What makes sense to me is to start out focusing on getting the Summit sports competitive in the conference in a relatively short timeframe, say 5 years.

Cut football or go Pioneer, at least at the start. Hockey, not sure what option there is, if a conf would take them non-scholly to start? Or maybe cut it.

 

[Herd]

Including national level, NCHC hockey for only men (cut the women’s team to save money).

Unless UST has serious, serious moneybags rich uncles who are going to, exactly as you say, bootstrap their athletic budget up to $3x million/yr, from what $4 million/yr, just so they can be top level in Missouri Valley football, Summit b-ball, and NCHC hockey .... not sure if that makes sense. The last one is the only high-major, but it’s a niche sport nationally.

What makes sense to me is to start out focusing on getting the Summit sports competitive in the conference in a relatively short timeframe, say 5 years.

Cut football or go Pioneer, at least at the start. Hockey, not sure what option there is, if a conf would take them non-scholly to start? Or maybe cut it.

Football is the sport where there are some DI spending options, but no where to go for basketball and hockey in DI except to get to the max scholarships or lose. You can technically be anywhere between 0 and 63 scholarships in DI FCS football. The schools in the Pioneer League are somewhat peers of UST and good named schools, so I imagine they'll start their football in the Pioneer. Drake, Butler, Valpo, Dayton, San Diego, etc. IMO, UST will rise to win that league about right away, but we'll see. Dayton and SD have been the best recently.

 

[Wcfan56]

There will be 30 kids from Minnesota on the Ndsu roster regardless of whether UST has DIII or DI football. Sorry, just the way it is.

They just won’t be as good as the Minnesota players you at NDSU have been getting!

 

[hungan1]

They better think carefully as Saint Cloud State has found out. Adding major hockey cost them the football program and other sports.

UST Alums has deeper pockets. However, they are in a conundrum. Long term sustainability of a major football program plus having to balance Title IX requirements would mean a much larger cash flow is needed if they go D1. Plus maybe cutting a few men sports program and adding more women's. This is not even mentioning the additional expenses of competitive athletic facilities spending.

If it is thought out carefully, it may work.

 

[Herd]

They better think carefully as Saint Cloud State has found out. Adding major hockey cost them the football program and other sports.

UST Alums has deeper pockets. However, they are in a conundrum. Long term sustainability of a major football program plus having to balance Title IX requirements would mean a much larger cash flow is needed if they go D1. Plus maybe cutting a few men sports program and adding more women's. This is not even mentioning the additional expenses of competitive athletic facilities spending.

If it is thought out carefully, it may work.

St Cloud, Omaha. Mankato would be a great Summit/MVFC Add, except hockey budget would never allow.

 

[4four4]

I am under the impression the O'shaughnessy's have plenty of money to help build out this D1 idea. Their latest new company rumor will be them building a 30 million dollar distillery next to Surly brewing. It's going to be interesting how involved they are with this move up.

 

[hungan1]

I bet there is never a year that have gone by at Saint John's since 1901 that the subject of one Ignatius Aloysius O'Shaughnessy's expulsion is brought up. Saint Thomas with O'Shaughnessy beat Saint John's 16-0 that year.

An Irish Catholic skipping vespers and drinking at German Catholic Benedictine college? That is a huge venial sin. It is not quite a mortal sin since he didn't finish the whole barrel of beer with his friends IMHO.

Saint John's lost is Saint Thomas' and Notre Dame's gain. O'Shaughnessy became very wealthy. He made his fortune in insurance and then oil and donated his money to Irish Catholic universities.

That is one expulsion they'd wish they could take back.

That is why the Johnnie-Tommie rivalry is going to me missed. They are so rich in history and intrigue as rivals.

O'Shaughnessy, St. Thomas and the Bond of Loyalty - Newsroom | University of St. Thomas

I.A. O'Shaughnessy knew the right things to have faith in, to hope for and to love.

news.stthomas.edu

 

[4four4]

I bet there is never a year that have gone by at Saint John's since 1901 that the subject of one Ignatius Aloysius O'Shaughnessy's expulsion is brought up. Saint Thomas with O'Shaughnessy beat Saint John's 16-0 that year.

An Irish Catholic skipping vespers and drinking at German Catholic Benedictine college? That is a huge venial sin. It is not quite a mortal sin since he didn't finish the whole barrel of beer with his friends IMHO.

Saint John's lost is Saint Thomas' and Notre Dame's gain. O'Shaughnessy became very wealthy. He made his fortune in insurance and then oil and donated his money to Irish Catholic universities.

That is one expulsion they'd wish they could take back.

That is why the Johnnie-Tommie rivalry is going to me missed. They are so rich in history and intrigue as rivals.

O'Shaughnessy, St. Thomas and the Bond of Loyalty - Newsroom | University of St. Thomas

I.A. O'Shaughnessy knew the right things to have faith in, to hope for and to love.

news.stthomas.edu

Star Tribune article Rumor has it this family is worth over a billion dollars. I didn't know he owned the Cleveland Indians.

 

[MplsGopher]

St Cloud, Omaha. Mankato would be a great Summit/MVFC Add, except hockey budget would never allow.

Add Mankato, SC, and Duluth to Summit. Pioneer or drop football.

 

[disco]

St Cloud, Omaha. Mankato would be a great Summit/MVFC Add, except hockey budget would never allow.

Omaha dropped football when they went D1, allegedly because UNL didn't want their sister school to have D1 football, even if it was FCS.

Mankato is probably the only really healthy MNSCU/outstate UM school. Enrollment is dropping at most of the others, but I don't see the money for Mankato to move to FCS anytime soon.

 

[MplsGopher]

Omaha dropped football when they went D1, allegedly because UNL didn't want their sister school to have D1 football, even if it was FCS.

Mankato is probably the only really healthy MNSCU/outstate UM school. Enrollment is dropping at most of the others, but I don't see the money for Mankato to move to FCS anytime soon.

SC, Mankato, and Duluth would all probably need to drop football to move DI. (moot point for SC anyhow)

It was about that cost, more than anything, for why Omaha dropped it.