Federal judge tosses former football players' lawsuit against University of Minnesota

[Gophers_4life]

Wait. You are assuming he leaked it because the lawyer claimed the report helped his client <b>after it had already been leaked</b>? He didn’t say they leaked it, but you are assuming he did because he tried to put a positive spin on it, really? You think it was more realistic for him to say, “oh crap, that hurts our case”???

I'm happy to be proven completely wrong, and this is just a wild guess (like anyone) .... but .... if you're trying to make the argument that the U of M's process is deeply flawed and unfair, and no one in the public can actually see the workings mechanism of that process ..... then it makes sense to me that they would want to leak it, to try to rally the public behind them and showcase the "unfair" process.

 

[Spoofin]

I'm happy to be proven completely wrong, and this is just a wild guess (like anyone) .... but .... if you're trying to make the argument that the U of M's process is deeply flawed and unfair, and no one in the public can actually see the workings mechanism of that process ..... then it makes sense to me that they would want to leak it, to try to rally the public behind them and showcase the "unfair" process.

Possible, but that would be a pretty naive viewpoint. The only reason to leak the report is for public opinion and most people see the pitch-fork tendencies of the general public. For example, the report did show how unfair (no quotes required) the process was, but I think we all saw what the general public’s response was (in large part because the vast majority don’t actually read the report but just hear the “highlights” the media and folks around the water cooler repeat).

No one on here knows for sure who leaked the report. Anything is possible - including ill-advised reasoning. <I>Could </I>it have been a player? Sure. Bizzle’s reasoning on why that is “clear” reads like looney bird talk tho. “Follow the money” (or in this case <b>follow who benefitted the most</b>) is usually a pretty sound approach. Pretty clear who benefitted the most by having the report leaked - it wasn’t the accused or the accuser.


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[scools12]

Amazing how many legal experts on GH now are second guessing a lawyer who specializes in these types of cases as having the wrong strategy. Anything but admitting the U did things right according to the policies in place. Of course when Mr. Truth and Integrity himself claims that nobody predicted tons of money was going to be garnered by the players, one shouldn't be amazed at what is brought up.

Ultimately for some this is what it is about. Placing blame on the U for how they handled the situation even though the procedures in place were followed.

Their complete disdain for President Kaler and AD Coyle won’t allow for admitting the U followed the policies.



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[Gophers_4life]

Pretty clear who benefitted the most by having the report leaked - it wasn’t the accused or the accuser.

100% correct that KTSP benefitted financially from obtaining the leaked report ... but they couldn’t unilaterally cause there leak, they could only pay off someone. But that means there will had to be a person on the inside with access to the report who could then provide it.

 

[ComoGopher]

You can like it or hate it but the U of MN standard is affirmative consent. That means basically you talk about sex beforehand and everyone agrees. That could be two people or 27 people. It does not matter. Everyone needs to agree that they want to have sex with everyone else. Every single Gopher athlete is specifically briefed on affirmative consent and what that means as part of their orientation.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

All the thing you listed are patently far, far more serious than being expelled from the University of Minnesota for violating the student code of conduct, and you know it. You're trying to be misleading, because you don't want to lose the argument. That's called LYING.

The act of trying to tell someone else how they should feel about the consequences of an event is precious. What if someone were to suggest date rape is no big deal, get over it? Life goes on, right?

Yes, I’m clearly losing the argument about the process being biased/shaded/inherently unfair.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

You can like it or hate it but the U of MN standard is affirmative consent. That means basically you talk about sex beforehand and everyone agrees. That could be two people or 27 people. It does not matter. Everyone needs to agree that they want to have sex with everyone else. Every single Gopher athlete is specifically briefed on affirmative consent and what that means as part of their orientation.

And...how do you prove consent after the fact??

The sole reason for affirmative consent was to enable easier findings of guilt. The originators of the concept even admit they don’t care that it takes a few broken eggs to make an omelette. Ends justify the means, yada yada. Really lunatic stuff. Think about how crazy that is.

 

[ComoGopher]

And...how do you prove consent after the fact??

I’ll wait.

You can't. So if you are going to have sex with someone you better make sure that they absolutely want to do it.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

You can't. So if you are going to have sex with someone you better make sure that they absolutely want to do it.

You didn’t answer my question.

 

[ComoGopher]

You didn’t answer my question.

Oh I absolutely did. You basically need a signed statement to have sex. 99% of the time it does not matter. But when one of the parties decides to say they didn't consent you are screwed. The athletes are all briefed on this. They were 18 year old kids and were stupid. I get it. They were all briefed on this. Sucks for them but the U of MN standard is clear and in this case there is a lot of haziness. Not good in an affirmative consent environment. Like someone else said earlier, if it ended at the threesome it would have been OK.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Oh I absolutely did. You basically need a signed statement to have sex. 99% of the time it does not matter. But when one of the parties decides to say they didn't consent you are screwed. The athletes are all briefed on this. They were 18 year old kids and were stupid. I get it. They were all briefed on this. Sucks for them but the U of MN standard is clear and in this case there is a lot of haziness. Not good in an affirmative consent environment. Like someone else said earlier, if it ended at the threesome it would have been OK.

So, setting an impossible standard is ok? This is a good thing?

Has the U eradicated date rape with these changes? Somehow...I expect not. Hit me with some stats.

 

[ComoGopher]

So, setting an impossible standard is ok? This is a good thing?

Has the U eradicated date rape with these changes? Somehow...I expect not. Hit me with some stats.

Yes. Don't have sex with someone who does not absolutely want to have sex with you. We are not wild animals who can't control what we do.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Yes. Don't have sex with someone who does not absolutely want to have sex with you. We are not wild animals who can't control what we do.

That’s not the point. Nobody disagrees with your statement. What about instances of regret, embarrassment, attention-seeking, revenge, etc.

It’s almost unconscionably naive to believe every accusation at face value.

 

[ComoGopher]

That’s not the point. Nobody disagrees with your statement. What about instances of regret, embarrassment, attention-seeking, revenge, etc.

It’s almost unconscionably naive to believe every accusation at face value.

Get over yourself. This girl did not want to train the football team. Maybe the first threesome was consent.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Get over yourself. This girl did not want to train the football team. Maybe the first threesome was consent.

So, you tell me to get over myself then go on to state you know what happened and now the entire team was involved. The last sentence is an instant classic.

 

[Spoofin]

Get over yourself. This girl did not want to train the football team. Maybe the first threesome was consent.

You don’t know who wanted or didn’t want what. Get over yourself.


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[rugger14]

You don’t know who wanted or didn’t want what. Get over yourself.


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Hmmm. Unless you have affirmative consent you should not have sex. How is that possibly negative? Yet you want to make that a negative. She said she did jot want to. We have evidence of text massages and train running and you still defend the men? WTF?

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[Pompous Elitist]

Hmmm. Unless you have affirmative consent you should not have sex. How is that possibly negative? Yet you want to make that a negative. She said she did jot want to. We have evidence of text massages and train running and you still defend the men? WTF?

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Evidence? Where do these urban legends originate from? At times I feel like we’ve been reading two separate accounts of the same event.

 

[Spoofin]

Hmmm. Unless you have affirmative consent you should not have sex. How is that possibly negative? Yet you want to make that a negative.

What are you even talking about?

She said she did jot want to. We have evidence of text massages and train running and you still defend the men? WTF?

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We have evidence she said she didn’t want to? You should have shared that with the police.

Never once have I claimed to know what happened. However, you and others with your assumption of guilt is wildly dangerous. You are living in the right time.



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[ComoGopher]

What are you even talking about?



We have evidence she said she didn’t want to? You should have shared that with the police.

Never once have I claimed to know what happened. However, you and others with your assumption of guilt is wildly dangerous. You are living in the right time.



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Not at all. Do not have sex without affirmative consent. That is all.

 

[Spoofin]

Not at all. Do not have sex without affirmative consent. That is all.

And who would dispute that? Did you miss what the debate was about?


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[rugger14]

What are you even talking about?



We have evidence she said she didn’t want to? You should have shared that with the police.

Never once have I claimed to know what happened. However, you and others with your assumption of guilt is wildly dangerous. You are living in the right time.



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The police should have seized cellphones and done a real investigation. What they did was a joke.

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[Pompous Elitist]

Not at all. Do not have sex without affirmative consent. That is all.

Yes.....go on. That’s it? Hey guys, problem solved!

 

[Spoofin]

The police should have seized cellphones and done a real investigation. What they did was a joke.

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More assumptions of guilt. You got this one all figured out. Good thing we had the EOAA to run a real investigation.


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[Pompous Elitist]

The police should have seized cellphones and done a real investigation. What they did was a joke.

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I’m pretty sure they did that. Are you talking about hiring a forensic firm like in capital cases to painstakingly recover any shreds of deleted flash drive data to help determine where Seth Green and Kiondre were and the rest of the guys were. I wonder if the basketball team was there. I bet Claeys was there too. He seems like the type.

 

[bizzle22]

Wait. You are assuming he leaked it because the lawyer claimed the report helped his client <b>after it had already been leaked</b>? He didn’t say they leaked it, but you are assuming he did because he tried to put a positive spin on it, really? You think it was more realistic for him to say, “oh crap, that hurts our case”???


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I'd think he would be pointing out exactly what someone said above...which is that it would be a violation of his clients rights that it was leaked without his consent. But he never went down that road.

Any halfway decent lawyer could win a decent settlement for their client if the report was leaked by someone at the U. And it could be the basis for the discrimination suit. But it's not. That should tell you something.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I'd think he would be pointing out exactly what someone said above...which is that it would be a violation of his clients rights that it was leaked without his consent. But he never went down that road.

Any halfway decent lawyer could win a decent settlement for their client if the report was leaked by someone at the U. And it could be the basis for the discrimination suit. But it's not. That should tell you something.

What tells me something is the U launched a high $ high powered investigation into an alleged leak of EOAA findings vs a public employee of the athletic department but crickets when the privacy rights of a student were violated.

Who had more to gain at the time by leaking the report? In the midst of a team boycott and PR nightmare (of their own making)?

I don’t know what happened here (with the leak), just like I don’t know what really happened or was communicated/miscommunicated the night in question. You guys don’t have a definite answer here? Surprising.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

There was no he said/she said in the Gopher football sex scandal. There were many people with first hand information about what transpired inside and outside the apartment either because they were an eye witness or because they received texts and videos sent by people in the apartment. For starters, the accused players were interviewed about their participation in the goings on and more than a few of them provided information about what the alleged victim said or didn't say and how her demeanor changed over time. Some information provided by players directly implicated other players in violations of the student code of conduct.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about how administrative hearings work in every public institution in America. The body of law that govern such hearings has been around for over a century or two. The U didn't invent their student disciplinary process last year. It was developed over decades to help the U's administrators manage one of the largest universities in the country. It can't happen any other way.

The U followed their process right down the line and the result was as fair to all the parties involved as any other process you can possibly dream up. What you want to happen can no longer exist in a country where women and minorities are asserting their rights everywhere and they are acquiring the political power and influence to change the way things happen in America forever. The U is NEVER turning back the clock to a time when administrators were reluctant to even do a thorough investigation much less initiate student code of conduct hearings in sexual assault and harassment cases.

Just so you know, I didn’t read any of that. You have been wrong on virtually every point you’ve ever made on this topic including your last post here stating cross-examination of accusers is allowed. No comment on that?

 

[Spoofin]

I'd think he would be pointing out exactly what someone said above...which is that it would be a violation of his clients rights that it was leaked without his consent. But he never went down that road.

Seriously, this theory has so many flaws in it I don’t know where to start. Once leaked, public perception is all that matters.

Any halfway decent lawyer could win a decent settlement for their client if the report was leaked by someone at the U. And it could be the basis for the discrimination suit. But it's not. That should tell you something.

It tells me that no one could prove who leaked it. As far as I know, you are the only one who has cracked the case so far.


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[bizzle22]

What tells me something is the U launched a $1 million+ high powered investigation into an alleged leak of EOAA findings vs a public employee of the athletic department but crickets when the privacy rights of a student were violated.

Who had more to gain at the time by leaking the report? In the midst of a team boycott and PR nightmare (of their own making)?

I don’t know what happened here (with the leak), just like I don’t know what really happened or was communicated/miscommunicated the night in question. You guys don’t have a definite answer here? Surprising.

I'll agree that there is no definitive answer, because there are only a few people who truly know who leaked it.

I do think it is oversimplifying it to say that leaking the report helped the U more than the players. Remember, news reports were throwing around the number of players involved at like 20. The report shows it to be far less than that. The report also shows that not all of the suspended players were accused of actually participating in the act. Both of those factors means the players benefit from getting that information out there. Frankly I don't think the release of the report was particularly helpful for either side.

The only people talking to the media about it were the players and their lawyers. The players each received a letter along with the report which totaled up to 82 pages. Coincidentally, the document that was leaked was exactly what each payer would have received. And again, any lawyer would be going nuts that the report was released without their consent. That is a direct violation of their clients rights and the easiest path to winning a lawsuit. Maybe I'm going a little far to say it is "clear" that the report was released by the players, but to me it definitely looks like it was released by one of the players and/or their lawyers.