Fake Kneel

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bottlebass said:
There is middle ground. The D can be ready for these fakes without blowing up the Oline. No one is running this fake play if the line to gain is so short that a 5 yard gain makes a difference in a game.

And the gophers fumble the snap all the time so the play is far from a formality...
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If I'm understanding you right, this seems really unfair to the defense. It sounds like you are basically saying "do some things to be ready in case of a fake, but dont go too hard at the line in case they are really kneeling." If the defense needs to be ready for a fake, then it is perfectly appropriate for all 11 players on defense to go 100% until the play is over.
 

Not a good look for Tulane coach IMO

Goes against the spirit of the game. Especially in an era with an emphasis on player safety
 

Yawn. It is ridiculous people would even suggest banning this.

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Some guy said:
Not a good look for Tulane coach IMO

Goes against the spirit of the game. Especially in an era with an emphasis on player safety
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Reminds me of the faked fair catch situation last year.

Like yeah that worked but you're so setting someone to get blowed up later on....
 

Some guy said:
Not a good look for Tulane coach IMO

Goes against the spirit of the game. Especially in an era with an emphasis on player safety
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C'mon. Player saftey? Do you have some stats that players are more likely to get hurt running or defending this play vs. any other? Of course not. It is not a valid argument.

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So_Money said:
C'mon. Player saftey? Do you have some stats that players are more likely to get hurt running or defending this play vs. any other? Of course not. It is not a valid argument.

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Are you like a new troll or something?
 

It wasn’t a fake kneel at all. In fact, it doesn’t even look like the QB even took the snap. Not “shady” either.

Are you going to start banning legal formations next? Fake punts? Play action?

“Opposition” to this play is pandering and ridiculous.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
If I'm understanding you right, this seems really unfair to the defense. It sounds like you are basically saying "do some things to be ready in case of a fake, but dont go too hard at the line in case they are really kneeling." If the defense needs to be ready for a fake, then it is perfectly appropriate for all 11 players on defense to go 100% until the play is over.
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No, you are not reading it right. Defenses can be 100% ready for plays like this without needing to blow up the Oline. They just have to have situational awareness. A couple players on the defense did which is why this play didn't go for a TD like it was designed to do. Nothing unfair to the defense at all. You think a defense goes 100% on every extra point try?

Is a team going to run this play on 4th and inches within the redzone? Or why would the Dline going 100% off the ball into the Oline matter on a play like this?
 

highwayman said:
It wasn’t a fake kneel at all. In fact, it doesn’t even look like the QB even took the snap. Not “shady” either.

Are you going to start banning legal formations next? Fake punts? Play action?
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100%
 



Some guy said:
Not a good look for Tulane coach IMO

Goes against the spirit of the game. Especially in an era with an emphasis on player safety
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The players for the most part just stood there at the snap. Oh wow how unsafe!
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Are you like a new troll or something?
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I don't post often, not "new" and I am not trolling...just pointing out the obvious. The fact you would take that as trolling says more about you than me.

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So_Money said:
I don't post often, not "new" and I am not trolling...just pointing out the obvious. The fact you would take that as trolling says more about you than me.

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I mean of course there aren't stats for one play... you know that. Stats or not doesn't make that not dangerous.
 

bottlebass said:
No, you are not reading it right. Defenses can be 100% ready for plays like this without needing to blow up the Oline. They just have to have situational awareness. A couple players on the defense did which is why this play didn't go for a TD like it was designed to do. Nothing unfair to the defense at all. You think a defense goes 100% on every extra point try?

Is a team going to run this play on 4th and inches within the redzone? Or why would the Dline going 100% off the ball into the Oline matter on a play like this?
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There are lots of things to do to defend this or other fakes. One of them is for a defensive lineman to jump a snap count and bull rush a lineman to try to get into the backfield and disrupt the play. I cant see the logical consistency in saying a play like this is ok, but a defensive lineman jumping the snap count and bull rushing against the victory formation in case of a fake is not. I'm in the camp that says it's a live play in a football game, so both are fair game. But it's not fair to defense to be ok with one but not the other.
 



I feel we should ban all trick plays and passes to Tight Ends as well.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
It's not fair to the defensive players who are expected to not plow down dudes / not be plowed over and all sportsman like on a kneel.... unless the offense decides otherwise.
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Kinda like when a 275 lb kicker always getting in on coverage and hitting people. Now the other team has to treat him like any other player and is fair game so they shouldn't be penalized for hitting him.

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MNVCGUY said:
The distinction in this is that all of the other trick or fake plays are run in full game speed situations where both teams are lined up for an actual play to occur and everyone is going hard.

Victory formation is used to just run out the clock and end the game or half. It is a token play where the defense typically just lets the offense snap the ball and take a knee with little to no pressure of any kind being applied. Everyone lets up. Which is of course what Tulane exploited in this case and it worked for them. The didn't technically do anything illegal but anyone pretending this isn't at least a little shady is kidding themselves.

The negative ramification to this for the remainder of this year is that it won't shock me one bit across college football to see defenses playing hard on victory formation snaps because you can bet coaching staffs are going to drill it into their heads that the offense might run a play. Adds to the potential for cheap shots and fights when some player on the offense gets blown up by a defensive lineman that isn't just letting up the way players have been conditioned to when a team lines up in that formation.

How are you going to feel when the Gophers lineup in victory formation and the DT on the other team blows up Olson shoving him right back into a kneeling Morgan?
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Schiano took a lot of heat when coaching in the NFL for having his DL blow up the OL in victory formation.

Edit:. Just realized someone else posted about Schiano. Didn't mean to double up.

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bleedsmaroonandgold said:
There are lots of things to do to defend this or other fakes. One of them is for a defensive lineman to jump a snap count and bull rush a lineman to try to get into the backfield and disrupt the play. I cant see the logical consistency in saying a play like this is ok, but a defensive lineman jumping the snap count and bull rushing against the victory formation in case of a fake is not. I'm in the camp that says it's a live play in a football game, so both are fair game. But it's not fair to defense to be ok with one but not the other.
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I'm not saying it's not OK for the defense to do that. I'm saying they don't have to do defend a play like this. There is nothing hard about defending a play like this if the defense is ready.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I mean of course there aren't stats for one play... you know that. Stats or not doesn't make that not dangerous.
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For us old timers, this play is called the “bomerinski”. The ball is usually handed between the legs to the guard. The guard delays before running out around the end. I was 2 for 2 with this play. Boise State and our ole’ friend Scott Frost has had similar success. It is a great call in this situation at the end of the game.
 


Word said:
Kinda like when a 275 lb kicker always getting in on coverage and hitting people. Now the other team has to treat him like any other player and is fair game so they shouldn't be penalized for hitting him.

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That situation occurred to me too.
 

Word said:
Schiano took a lot of heat when coaching in the NFL for having his DL blow up the OL in victory formation.

Edit:. Just realized someone else posted about Schiano. Didn't mean to double up.

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Probabbly a good example of why ... just allow the other team to "declare" a kneel.

If we're doing it "in case" someone does fumble, but we don't like it if anyone wants to play for that fumble ... just make it like a walk in baseball.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I mean of course there aren't stats for one play... you know that. Stats or not doesn't make that not dangerous.
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All plays are contact plays you are no more likely to get hurt running that play...just how it is. Frankly in many ways the offensive players are more protected than usual in the victory formation and it really makes no difference for the defense. Player saftey is a nothing argument.

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So_Money said:
All plays are contact plays you are no more likely to get hurt running that play...just how it is. Frankly in many ways the offensive players are more protected than usual in the victory formation and it really makes no difference for the defense. Player saftey is a nothing argument.

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I'm pretty sure you're not following the conversation in this thread.
 




bottlebass said:
Well so far, with zero injuries I'd say the fake kneel is the safest play in football.
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EUMfqLn.gif


/humor
 

GopherPoke said:
This is what I would worry about. You love the play and result now, but I think as a coach, you're setting your 0-line up to get crushed when doing this later in the season when you are truly kneeling.
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wait, so the OL has to play hard for one more snap???? the nerve!
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I think if it had been a true "fake kneel" where the QB actually simulated lowering his knee before "ope, the knee never actually touched the ground," the ref is supposed to blow it dead. They didn't actually fake the kneel, they just lined up in a formation that implied a kneel. If I'm a coach, I'm definitely telling my players to play it out until you see the QB start to lower his knee.
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Agree, if its just a formation that looks like something then that's on the defense to play it out. If the QB makes any motion to suggest he might kneel then the play should be called dead for the safety of all players.
 

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