ESPN Take Two: Big Ten's next expansion move

Donate To GopherHole
Gopherphile said:
can someone explain why texas isn't being talked about? i know they've been in the conversation with the pac12, but they should be target number one, imo, much moreso than notre dame. why we'd even consider oklahoma without first bringing in texas is beyond me.
Click to expand...

Because unless UT agrees to give up their LHN, there is no way the B1G takes them. The Pac seems more likely to work with them on some sort of regional network, whereas the B1G won't. We would probably be UT's third or fourth option after: (1) Keeping the big12 afloat; (2) going to the Pac; and (3) going independent. I just can't see it happening, but I would love it if it could. Nebraska might have something to say against it though! :)
 

hendo59 said:
Because unless UT agrees to give up their LHN, there is no way the B1G takes them. The Pac seems more likely to work with them on some sort of regional network, whereas the B1G won't. We would probably be UT's third or fourth option after: (1) Keeping the big12 afloat; (2) going to the Pac; and (3) going independent. I just can't see it happening, but I would love it if it could. Nebraska might have something to say against it though! :)
Click to expand...

thanks for the reply. makes sense - everything is about the television revenue in this day and age.
 

I think for future expansion that a school with a hockey program WOULD be much preferred by the Big Ten. Remember that the Big Ten forced the Gophers to move to a Big Ten conference even though staying in the WCHA, undoubtedly the best conference in the country, would have been preferred. Lucia even indicated as much. Having only 6 teams in the conference is not a good situation.
 

No F'ing way to ND. No one gives a rat's azz about ND except ND. I'd rather add the University of Bridgeport (CT)... look it up! Or, alternatively, pick any women's only school over ND.

If I were A&M, I'd rather lose in the SEC than be with those greedy UT SOBs. Sure, A&M will have the same issues that Vandy has in the SEC because they are solid when it comes to academics. A&M doesn't fit with the B1G geographically or culturally, but this is the type school the B1G should covet if we expand (land grant university with tradition, solid academics, etc.).

I prefer we leave our sacred conference alone but if the B1G does expand, perhaps a school like Syracuse (NY market) and/or Mizzou (midwest fit).

Again, NO F'ING way to ND. We already have two schools from that state. Let ND fail on their own.
 

How about adding a school like winona state. Large metro area, check. Academic tradition, check. Athletic tradition, check. Right in the conference's back yard too. It's a perfect fit!!!
 


Neutral said:
How about adding a school like winona state. Large metro area, check. Academic tradition, check. Athletic tradition, check. Right in the conference's back yard too. It's a perfect fit!!!
Click to expand...

Speaking of D2 schools, why the hell hasn't UMD moved up to 1-AA?
 

Thank You!

Hey JackiO! Thank you very much for answering my questions. I appreciate it very much. I respect your comments and passion. You seem always give your honest opinion. Thank you!
 

SDGopherFan said:
I have not seen anything credible that shows U of MN hockey makes money or loses money. JackiO put the link of a website that said it got its data from a 3rd website, when I checked that website I did not find those numbers. I would simply be interested in seeing the exact numbers as a gopher fan.
Click to expand...


Here's the link to the source data: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Index.aspx

In the right hand column click on: "Download selected data"

In the boxes click on (highlight):

Minnesota
NCAA Div I-A
Public, 4-year or above
Search

That will get you to the U of M. Click on: "Continue"

Select:

2009
Sport Code: "Ice Hockey"

Click on "Download" and open the Excel worksheet. Net profit for mens and womens hockey combined in 2009 was just under $3.5 million.
 

I attended UM hockey games while in Mpls but since graduating and going back to Anchorage haven't been to another hockey game. It just doesn't click.
 



Kuato Lives! said:
Speaking of D2 schools, why the hell hasn't UMD moved up to 1-AA?
Click to expand...


Sports outside of football and hockey would suffer immensely. Plus, you need adequate facilities and a minimum attendance for major sports (I think). Besides, dominating Division II is better than struggling in DI IMO.
 

SDGopherFan said:
proof is in the newspaper, tv and radio, are you kidding? you accept those as proof of fact. I will take your 2nd suggestion and e-mail somebody in the know and maybe get an answer.
Click to expand...

Let me know what you come up with. I'm guessing it will be more accurate than your personal observations about how much Minnesotans care about hockey.

Yes, I have seen, heard, been told etc. the hockey program is profitable and that includes multiple "u" financial discussions surrounding the athletic department when comparing men's and women's sports. I know I could find the links if I cared more, just like I could find links that declare we won world war two. Forgive me if I take a pass.

Oh, and can you tell me how the random link you proved earlier in this thread can be accepted as proof of fact regardless of what it says? If it is on the internets it must be true?
 

Gopherphile said:
can someone explain why texas isn't being talked about? i know they've been in the conversation with the pac12, but they should be target number one, imo, much moreso than notre dame. why we'd even consider oklahoma without first bringing in texas is beyond me.
Click to expand...

Because they have 4+ years of work behind the Longhorn Network and an annual revenue stream of about $25M for its multimedia rights and the channel combined.

They will go Independent, negotiate BCS accomodations (like Notre Dame) before joining either Pac 12 or B1G.
 

Will A &M still play Texas after the split?
 



Firejumper said:
I think for future expansion that a school with a hockey program WOULD be much preferred by the Big Ten. Remember that the Big Ten forced the Gophers to move to a Big Ten conference even though staying in the WCHA, undoubtedly the best conference in the country, would have been preferred. Lucia even indicated as much. Having only 6 teams in the conference is not a good situation.
Click to expand...

There was no "force". The U and Wisconsin were big proponents of the creation of the BHL. The additions of schools like MSU, BSU, and Alaska-A have slowly killed this conference. The WCHA is no longer the premier conference from top to bottom. Hockey East has long passed the WCHA by. It was time. 6 teams is fine. The NHL had 6 teams for 25 years.
 

Iceland12 said:
I can't find the source SD, but when there was all the "hubbub" about schools not making money from sports, Minnesota was listed as one of the few (less then 6?) BCS schools that made money from an Olympic sport. Don't take my word for it, but I gave up looking to go sit on the deck.
Click to expand...

Last time I checked, basketball was an olympic sport. Correct?

Just sayin.
 

station19 said:
Last time I checked, basketball was an olympic sport. Correct?

Just sayin.
Click to expand...

Yeh, that's what made it so funny. There appeared to be a conscience effort by Football Coaches to refer to any sport besides football and basketball as an Olympic sports. You know, they way pro football coaches NEVER say "NFL" just "National Football League"? I still remember interviews with coach after coach over a period of weeks talking about "Olympic" sports, sometimes in a perjorative tone. Quite puzzling but pretty amusing. :)
 

Calgoph said:
Here's the link to the source data: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Index.aspx

In the right hand column click on: "Download selected data"

In the boxes click on (highlight):

Minnesota
NCAA Div I-A
Public, 4-year or above
Search

That will get you to the U of M. Click on: "Continue"

Select:

2009
Sport Code: "Ice Hockey"

Click on "Download" and open the Excel worksheet. Net profit for mens and womens hockey combined in 2009 was just under $3.5 million.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that good sir.
 

JackiO said:
Thank you for that good sir.
Click to expand...

Per that link, the men's team alone had a profit of $4,295,417 in 2009 which is BY FAR the largest in the country. Next closest is NoDak with a profit of $1,475,302.

Interesting to see the net profits for Big Ten football teams:

Penn State: $50,427,645
Michigan: $44,861,184
Ohio State: $31,986,964
Iowa: $27,836,032
MSU: $26,994,201
Wisconsin: $16,621,480
Minnesota: $14,888,989
Illinois: $14,209,661
Indiana: $8,960,406
Northwestern: $6,971,411
Purdue: $6,297,633
 

Gopher07 said:
Per that link, the men's team alone had a profit of $4,295,417 in 2009 which is BY FAR the largest in the country. Next closest is NoDak with a profit of $1,475,302.

Interesting to see the net profits for Big Ten football teams:

Penn State: $50,427,645
Michigan: $44,861,184
Ohio State: $31,986,964
Iowa: $27,836,032
MSU: $26,994,201
Wisconsin: $16,621,480
Minnesota: $14,888,989
Illinois: $14,209,661
Indiana: $8,960,406
Northwestern: $6,971,411
Purdue: $6,297,633
Click to expand...

Is there any information on net losses of non revenue sports, I would be curious to see where all the money goes, I am sure Title IX has alot to do with it so you are constrained to a certain extent.
 

4four4 said:
Will A &M still play Texas after the split?
Click to expand...

If they want to keep tradition and an historical rivalry they will.
If they want any chance at being bowl eligible, no.

I would like to think they would want to keep their greatest rival on the schedule though.
 

jovs said:
Is there any information on net losses of non revenue sports, I would be curious to see where all the money goes, I am sure Title IX has alot to do with it so you are constrained to a certain extent.
Click to expand...

Sure, so:

In 2009, three teams turned a net profit at the U: Football, $14,888,989, Men's Basketball, $8,041,167 and Men's Hockey, $4,295,417. The remaining sports combined to have a net loss of ($13,720,499), plus a net loss on the dollars "not allocated by Gender/Sport" of ($13,505,074).

Net gains/losses by sport (2009):

Football Men's Team $14,888,989.00
Basketball Men's Team $8,041,167.00
Ice Hockey Men's Team $4,295,417.00
Golf Women's Team ($288,067.00)
Golf Men's Team ($317,036.00)
Gymnastics Men's Team ($358,315.00)
Tennis Men's Team ($368,147.00)
Gymnastics Women's Team ($416,064.00)
Tennis Women's Team ($462,713.00)
Wrestling ($696,963.00)
Swimming and Diving Men's Team ($748,071.00)
Soccer Women's Team ($749,907.00)
Softball Women's Team ($785,237.00)
Swimming and Diving Women's Team ($789,924.00)
Ice Hockey Women's Team ($837,485.00)
Baseball Men's Team ($839,294.00)
All Track Combined Men's Team ($990,993.00)
Rowing Women's Team ($1,110,201.00)
Volleyball Women's Team ($1,175,595.00)
All Track Combined Women's Team ($1,223,084.00)
Basketball Women's Team ($1,563,403.00)
Not Allocated by Gender/Sport ($13,505,074.00)
 

Oh, and for what it's worth:

http://northwestern.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=57&tid=162506546&mid=162506546&sid=901&style=2

Earlier this evening, Notre Dame and Texas jointly presented the Big Ten Conference with their proposed terms of entry into the conference. These terms resulted from lengthy discussions among both schools and the Big Ten over the past several months.

The major items include:
1. The preservation of an eight game (plus championship) conference football schedule. Both ND and Texas wish to preserve rivalries with non-Big Ten universities on a regular basis. This would require the Big Ten to abandon its current plans of a 9 game conference schedule.
2. The staggering of the schedule to allow for mid-season scheduling with non-conference football opponents.
3. The preservation of the status quo conference makeup until approximately 2014, unless the Big XII fails to retain key (NOT including A&M) conference members. This will provide the member schools, acting in unison, with the greatest leverage negotiating ongoing television contracts, particularly with ESPN.
4. Should Texas depart the conference for the Big Ten before ND due to the further disintegration of the Big XII, ND will remain independent until approximately 2014
5. The Longhorn Network would remain independent until approximately 2014, at which point the network would become a part of an expanded Big Ten Network (specifically referred to as "BTN2"), likely either in partnership with Fox, NBC, or less likely ABC

The Big Ten just wrapped up a meeting to initially consider all of the terms presented by the schools, including the aforementioned.

Notably, there is a general discontent with the reporting of the situation by ESPN with specific regard to Texas. ESPN has, for self-serving purposes, drastically exaggerated the lean of Texas to the Pac12 conference in nearly all commentary. ESPN has essentially waged a propaganda campaign to drive support among the Texas stakeholders to the Pac12 conference. ESPN has gone so far as to attempt to accelerate the disintegration of the Big XII to pressure Texas into making an immediate conference change decision. Texas has steadfastly resisted change, and will do so until the appropriate time occurs for Texas to stand in a strong position to renegotiate television contracts, including with ESPN.

In reality, the preference expressed by Texas' relevant leadership is to depart the Big XII for the Big Ten at the time that gives Texas the greatest leverage in negotiating a new television rights deal. The Big Ten and Texas agreed that Texas should do what is best for Texas, which they also both agree is a move by Texas to join the Big Ten Conference. Delaney's top priority has been to create an environment for Texas and Notre Dame to join the conference on mutually benefical terms.

Notre Dame has an interest in preserving its traditional rivalries, three of which occur already in the Big Ten, and creating a new national rivalry with a traditional powerhouse. The Big Ten believes that ND prefers independence, but realizes that it will soon have no choice but to join a conference. The Big Ten also believes that ND is trying to position itself so that if it must join a conference, it does so on the most favorable terms possible. Hence the return to the 8 game schedule and a protected game with national power Texas. The Big Ten will attempt to create a mutually beneficial environment for ND that allows it to preserve a great deal of independence to retain all its traditional rivalries within the conference context.

The initial mood at the Big Ten to the terms provided by the two schools is "receptive."
Click to expand...
 


Iceland12 said:
Wow. I wonder, if it would happen, who gets to join this "Murderer's Row" as the 14th team?
Click to expand...

ND and Texas would make 14 teams.

Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Northwestern
Nebraska
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue
Texas
Wisconsin
 

It'd be interesting to host Texas in a late November game with below normal temps here in Minneapolis. :)

Just daydreaming.
 

This.
Unless you add a BIG TIME program, there aren't many ways to get to 14 without reducing revenue per school. Let alone 16.

You wont see expansion to 14 without one of these schools. You wont see expansion to 16 without 2 imo.

Schools that might make expansion a possibility not in the sec or PAC 12 would be:
Texas
Texas a&m
Oklahoma
Notre dame
stevedave23 said:
Marc Cuban (love him or hate him) had an interesting blog on not going to super conferences. His points are:

1. Adding schools does not mean more TV money since you have to divide equally and then game quality is diluted.
2. It will create scheduling nightmares because too many games will get pushed to very early or very late time slots.
3. Importance of geographic rivalry games goes down the tubes
4. Teams that were leaders in smaller conferences are now lost in the shuffle of super conferences
Click to expand...
 

Schnauzer said:
It'd be interesting to host Texas in a late November game with below normal temps here in Minneapolis. :)

Just daydreaming.
Click to expand...

Being a big Irish fan because of family ties, I follow the program very closely and the Irish fan base is extremely receptive to this idea now that they know they cannot wait and sit back while they get left in the dust. But man...what a tough conference it would be. Might as well name the divisions titans and gods as one of the posters over at Irish Envy said.
 


Anyone but Texa$. It disgusts me that they are even in under consideration. I understand why they are in the discussion - and those reasons disgust me too. They are a poison, and their culture of greed destroyed the SWC and the Big12. I will feel bad for the PAC12 if they end up taking Texas.

When all is said and done, has anyone been grateful that Texas was in their conference?

They think they are above everyone else to a degree unmatched by any other school. Notre Dame comes close, but they, and their alumni are at least moving in the direction of rationality. Texas deserves to be Independent.
 

Gopher07 said:
Oh, and for what it's worth:

http://northwestern.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=57&tid=162506546&mid=162506546&sid=901&style=2
Click to expand...

If I read this correctly ND would like to retain their tradition of playing Michigan, Mich State, and Purdue, add a power probably Texas to their schedule and play an additional four big ten teams in conference play. They want the ability to play four Non Conference games which would probably include USC, Navy, and BC every year.

What coach would want to play that schedule every year. Say they add OSU, Iowa, Penn State, and Northwestern as the additional conference games in a year. Goodnight Irene.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom