ESPN: Results are in: Expanded playoff wouldn't mean more competition

[Pompous Elitist]

Only a few teams had a chance at the title under the prior systems...and the bowls were just as meaningful or meaningless as you wanted them to be. IMHO the fact that people are more excited about the playoff games today than the “also-ran bowls” says more about the prior system being so unsatisfying and (in recent decades) watered down than a playoff system being faulty.

 

[Goldmember]

OSU got screwed.
Notre Dame rewarded for not playing in a conference. Oklahoma rewarded for playing in a small, decimated conference. OSU penalized for playing in a ninth conference game instead of an FCS team.

 

[Otis]

OSU got screwed.
Notre Dame rewarded for not playing in a conference. Oklahoma rewarded for playing in a small, decimated conference. OSU penalized for playing in a ninth conference game instead of an FCS team.

So they shouldn't have played Purdue?

As for diminishing the value of the other bowls. Minnesota, who at 6-6 should have been thrilled to be in a bowl, had what 2, 3 starters pass on the game to keep from being injured and prepare for the draft. Did any of the top 4 teams have players sit out willingly?

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

OSU got screwed.
Notre Dame rewarded for not playing in a conference. Oklahoma rewarded for playing in a small, decimated conference. OSU penalized for playing in a ninth conference game instead of an FCS team.

Notre Dame got rewarded for winning all of their games. Conference or not, their schedule was legitimate. I agree that OSU should have been in instead of Oklahoma, but OSU was punished for losing to a bad Purdue team, not for playing a 9th game.

 

[LakerFan]

This is a problem. If this is true, then that means that not making the playoff dramatically diminished the rest of the bowl games (even the previously top tier bowl games). Expanding the playoff would further diminish any remaining bowl games and the regular season. So, we'd have 8 or 12 teams in the playoff, taking up all the good bowl games, while everyone else does what? Our favorite team, the Gophers, would be doing what? College football would look very different than it does today, and even today the Rose Bowl is looked at as a consolation prize. It doesn't feel right to me. Maybe the concept will grow on me.

I think many would say that is an argument FOR expanded playoffs, essentially putting a fork in the meaningless bowl games. Rose Bowl and other top tier bowls could be incorporated into expanded playoff structure. Quick lane bowl probably goes the way of the dodo. Gives an opportunity to set up four important bowl games around Christmas, 2 around new years day and 1 a week later. The other division I football bowl structure has been working that way (not on those dates) for a long time. Conference championships become the defacto round of 16 with the power 5 getting automatic bids and the other three spots awarded to selected conference champs from group of 5.

 

[dpodoll68]

I think many would say that is an argument FOR expanded playoffs, essentially putting a fork in the meaningless bowl games. Rose Bowl and other top tier bowls could be incorporated into expanded playoff structure. Quick lane bowl probably goes the way of the dodo. Gives an opportunity to set up four important bowl games around Christmas, 2 around new years day and 1 a week later. The other division I football bowl structure has been working that way (not on those dates) for a long time. Conference championships become the defacto round of 16 with the power 5 getting automatic bids and the other three spots awarded to selected conference champs from group of 5.

So you want LESS opportunity for teams outside of the elite few? Please explain to me how that makes any sense to you as a Gophers fan.

And here we go again with the "meaningless bowl" canard. If you want to look at the big picture of life, sports in general are meaningless. As a Gophers fan, you should have greatly enjoyed the opportunity to watch another Gophers football game this year - I know that I did. No bowl is more or less "meaningful" than any other.

 

[Otis]

I think many would say that is an argument FOR expanded playoffs, essentially putting a fork in the meaningless bowl games. Rose Bowl and other top tier bowls could be incorporated into expanded playoff structure. Quick lane bowl probably goes the way of the dodo. Gives an opportunity to set up four important bowl games around Christmas, 2 around new years day and 1 a week later. The other division I football bowl structure has been working that way (not on those dates) for a long time. Conference championships become the defacto round of 16 with the power 5 getting automatic bids and the other three spots awarded to selected conference champs from group of 5.

I don't see why lesser bowls could not continue to exist. They would still provide the same purpose they have now. Bowl deals may have to go away, cause if you go to 8 teams the cotton bowl isn't going to be happy with the third place team every year from the SEC. Bowl free agency might even build more interest in the bowls. Who wouldn't have wanted to watch an LSU vs TAMU rematch of their 72-71 game! Or games in intraconference that didn't occur during the season because of divisions. Of course I also would like to see a New Year's Day Toilet Bowl in say Detroit where the two worst teams in Division 1 play to not win the esteemed Toilet Buddy Trophy! Give those crap teams extra practices to improve!

 

[swingman]

FCS has a nice 24 team format with 8 byes

D2 has a 28 team format with four byes

D3 has a full on 32 team format

anyone of these would be great

I like higher seeds getting home games in northern climates

 

[LakerFan]

So you want LESS opportunity for teams outside of the elite few? Please explain to me how that makes any sense to you as a Gophers fan.

And here we go again with the "meaningless bowl" canard. If you want to look at the big picture of life, sports in general are meaningless. As a Gophers fan, you should have greatly enjoyed the opportunity to watch another Gophers football game this year - I know that I did. No bowl is more or less "meaningful" than any other.

I look at baseball as a good example, just making the post season is pretty special, for me making the playoffs in Hockey loses some of it's luster because about half the teams make it.

To each his own, but beating Wisconsin this year was a lot more special to me than attending the quick lane bowl in Detroit. I watched the game and enjoyed it (once i figured out that the non-HD signal wasn't pixelated) but nowhere near the excitement of the Wisconsin game. If the conference championships become really meaningful and the defacto round 4, then 20 teams are playing in really important games and 20 seems like a pretty large number relative to maybe 140 teams competing 80 of which are competitive and 60 of would still be in the hunt until the last weeks of the season. With increased importance on the conference championship, each regular season game becomes more important and you end up having win and in games in the weeks leading up to the conference championship. Winning the Big Ten West as a prerequisite to make post season play is something I could live with. Implying that my position means I think all games and sports in general are meaningless is hyperbole.

 

[dpodoll68]

I look at baseball as a good example, just making the post season is pretty special, for me making the playoffs in Hockey loses some of it's luster because about half the teams make it.

To each his own, but beating Wisconsin this year was a lot more special to me than attending the quick lane bowl in Detroit. I watched the game and enjoyed it (once i figured out that the non-HD signal wasn't pixelated) but nowhere near the excitement of the Wisconsin game. If the conference championships become really meaningful and the defacto round 4, then 20 teams are playing in really important games and 20 seems like a pretty large number relative to maybe 140 teams competing 80 of which are competitive and 60 of would still be in the hunt until the last weeks of the season. With increased importance on the conference championship, each regular season game becomes more important and you end up having win and in games in the weeks leading up to the conference championship. Winning the Big Ten West as a prerequisite to make post season play is something I could live with. Implying that my position means I think all games and sports in general are meaningless is hyperbole.

Why are you putting the wisconsin game and the bowl game against each other? What does the wisconsin game have to do at all with this topic? Of course I enjoyed the Axe victory more than the bowl game, but what does that have to do with anything? It's not as though the two are mutually exclusive.

And you didn't answer my question - why do you want less Gopher football, as opposed to more?

 

[Panthadad2]

Two thoughts on this. First, I don't think a playoff system would have all that much impact on the non-elite bowl games. As long as there are cities that want to draw tourists, media companies that want to attract viewers, and schools that want to attend/play, there will be bowl games regardless of a playoff.

Second, because we have bowl games for good but not great teams, major college football doesn't need as large a playoff system as the lower divisions. If you look at the scores of the early rounds of playoffs in D3/D2/FCS with 24-32 teams, there are tons of blowouts and this would be the same for major college football. I personally think the current 4 teams is fine (with better guidelines like conference championship qualifiers/disqualifiers) but 8 would be OK too. 16 teams probably starts to stretch things even though there would probably be some interesting match ups.

 

[Goldmember]

Notre Dame got rewarded for winning all of their games. Conference or not, their schedule was legitimate. I agree that OSU should have been in instead of Oklahoma, but OSU was punished for losing to a bad Purdue team, not for playing a 9th game.

Notre Dame played only second or third tier opponents. When they finally faced a P5 conference champion caliber opponent they were (predictably) trounced as they always are by such teams.

Oklahoma has a similar advantage. When the greatest threat on your schedule is Iowa State, you just haven’t accomplished as much as everyone else. Their performance in the BCS/CFP is so bad it defies statistics.

Reality is that OSU played Purdue instead of an FCS opponent. Instead of a ninth game, Clemson played Furman... and Alabama played the Citadel. If the Big Ten had allowed OSU to follow these CFP perennials’ lead, and play VMI instead of Purdue, do you think they are still left out of the playoff?

Reality is the current system heaps reward on schools for playing fewer challenging regular season games. Playoff expansion would make that problem even worse.

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

Why are you putting the wisconsin game and the bowl game against each other? What does the wisconsin game have to do at all with this topic? Of course I enjoyed the Axe victory more than the bowl game, but what does that have to do with anything? It's not as though the two are mutually exclusive.

And you didn't answer my question - why do you want less Gopher football, as opposed to more?

On the other hand, look at Northwestern this year as the example.

Let's say the Gophers won the West at 8-4 and caught the East team with their pants down at the B1G championship game. Would you want that team to have a crack at the National Championship or not? The 8 team playoff gives you that, the current system does not.

Or if we are talking a 24-32 team, say the Gophers won the West at 8-4 and lost to the East team (again, like NW did this year). Would you rather they play in the Outback Bowl/Holiday Bowl/etc. or in a playoff?

Yes, if FBS goes to a playoff the Gophers will have post season football less. No question. But if every time they go they have a chance at winning a National Championship if things go right, I think that makes getting there even more special.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Notre Dame played only second or third tier opponents. When they finally faced a P5 conference champion caliber opponent they were (predictably) trounced as they always are by such teams.

Oklahoma has a similar advantage. When the greatest threat on your schedule is Iowa State, you just haven’t accomplished as much as everyone else. Their performance in the BCS/CFP is so bad it defies statistics.

Reality is that OSU played Purdue instead of an FCS opponent. Instead of a ninth game, Clemson played Furman... and Alabama played the Citadel. If the Big Ten had allowed OSU to follow these CFP perennials’ lead, and play VMI instead of Purdue, do you think they are still left out of the playoff?

Reality is the current system heaps reward on schools for playing fewer challenging regular season games. Playoff expansion would make that problem even worse.

"Played only second or third tier opponents "? Notre Dame's best win was against the same team that OSU's was, and Notre Dame didn't lose to a bad Purdue team.

 

[dpodoll68]

On the other hand, look at Northwestern this year as the example.

Let's say the Gophers won the West at 8-4 and caught the East team with their pants down at the B1G championship game. Would you want that team to have a crack at the National Championship or not? The 8 team playoff gives you that, the current system does not.

Or if we are talking a 24-32 team, say the Gophers won the West at 8-4 and lost to the East team (again, like NW did this year). Would you rather they play in the Outback Bowl/Holiday Bowl/etc. or in a playoff?

Yes, if FBS goes to a playoff the Gophers will have post season football less. No question. But if every time they go they have a chance at winning a National Championship if things go right, I think that makes getting there even more special.

I would rather watch the Gophers in 8 or 9 bowl games per decade than have a 0.5% chance of having an opportunity to get killed in the playoffs once per generation. That is most definitely a trade I'm willing to make.

When and if the Gophers finally make the playoffs, they will have earned it and not lucked their way through a bad division to do so.

 

[dpodoll68]

"Played only second or third tier opponents "? Notre Dame's best win was against the same team that OSU's was, and Notre Dame didn't lose to a bad Purdue team.

Yeah, I need a definition of "second tier" and "third tier". Notre Dame played 4 ranked teams during the regular season, going 4-0, and the average score in those games was 35.75 to 15 - or an average margin of victory of approximately three TDs. Michigan actually finished ahead of Notre Dame in advanced stats. Virginia Tech ended the season pretty terribly, lowering Notre Dame's strength of schedule, but Notre Dame played 4 teams that ended the season in Sagarin's Top 30 (Clemson, Michigan, Stanford, Syracuse), more than either Ohio State or Clemson played. Oh, and they also beat Northwestern on the road, and Northwestern ended at 32 in the Sagarin ratings.

 

[Schnauzer]

Reality is the current system heaps reward on schools for playing fewer challenging regular season games. Playoff expansion would make that problem even worse.

Not if a conference championship is a prerequisite for being considered for the playoff. I don't mind seeing even 8 win teams occasionally in the playoff if they are a conference champion. I'd rather see an 8 win conference champion than a 10 or 11 win runner up that gets slated above a different power 5 conference's champion.

 

[Panthadad2]

Yeah, I need a definition of "second tier" and "third tier". Notre Dame played 4 ranked teams during the regular season, going 4-0, and the average score in those games was 35.75 to 15 - or an average margin of victory of approximately three TDs. Michigan actually finished ahead of Notre Dame in advanced stats. Virginia Tech ended the season pretty terribly, but Notre Dame played 4 Top 30 Sagarin teams, more than either Ohio State or Clemson played.

I get that Notre Dame played some highly ranked teams in the regular season, but my issues are that they didn't have to play in a conference championship game that could have eliminated them from the CFP (like Georgia) and they didn't beat a conference champion. Heck, if their football team was in the ACC like their other teams, they would have had to get through Clemson first just to get considered for the CFP and we know how that worked out. Given their terrible recent history in major bowl games, I have a feeling the bar is getting raised for them in the future. If so, I won't feel sorry for them because they choose to take the cash and remain independent.

 

[Ope3]

I get that Notre Dame played some highly ranked teams in the regular season, but my issues are that they didn't have to play in a conference championship game that could have eliminated them from the CFP (like Georgia) and they didn't beat a conference champion. Heck, if their football team was in the ACC like their other teams, they would have had to get through Clemson first just to get considered for the CFP and we know how that worked out. Given their terrible recent history in major bowl games, I have a feeling the bar is getting raised for them in the future. If so, I won't feel sorry for them because they choose to take the cash and remain independent.

To me not getting in a Conf Championship game is bogus as it relates to ND. Alabama won it all last year and they did not play in a Conf Championship game.

 

[GophersInIowa]

To me not getting in a Conf Championship game is bogus as it relates to ND. Alabama won it all last year and they did not play in a Conf Championship game.

Plus not playing in a conference championship only helps ND if they go undefeated during the regular season. If they have one slip up, they're probably out. Other teams can possibly have a mulligan because they can redeem themselves in a conference championship.

 

[LakerFan]

Why are you putting the wisconsin game and the bowl game against each other? What does the wisconsin game have to do at all with this topic? Of course I enjoyed the Axe victory more than the bowl game, but what does that have to do with anything? It's not as though the two are mutually exclusive.

And you didn't answer my question - why do you want less Gopher football, as opposed to more?

It's not that I want less, but I would trade 10 Quick Lane bowls for one chance at a Big Ten Championship game that led directly to an expanded 8 team championship. More isn't always better, it's just more. I don't think rewarding teams with below .500 conference records with post season play is terribly important even knowing that applies to out team more years than not.

 

[dpodoll68]

It's not that I want less, but I would trade 10 Quick Lane bowls for one chance at a Big Ten Championship game that led directly to an expanded 8 team championship. More isn't always better, it's just more. I don't think rewarding teams with below .500 conference records with post season play is terribly important even knowing that applies to out team more years than not.

But you said those bowls are meaningless, so how can they be a reward? Is it meaningless, or is it a reward? It can't be both. Rewards are by definition meaningful.

 

[gopher7]

Plus not playing in a conference championship only helps ND if they go undefeated during the regular season. If they have one slip up, they're probably out. Other teams can possibly have a mulligan because they can redeem themselves in a conference championship.

This year yes, but if they went 11-1 when Michigan, USC, Florida State or Virginia Tech were near their historical norms, then they could still easily get in with a loss. They play what should be the toughest schedule in the nation often, but through no fault of their own all of the powerhouses on their schedule are currently slumping. Even Navy & Stanford are slipping as of late.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

This year yes, but if they went 11-1 when Michigan, USC, Florida State or Virginia Tech were near their historical norms, then they could still easily get in with a loss. They play what should be the toughest schedule in the nation often, but through no fault of their own all of the powerhouses on their schedule are currently slumping. Even Navy & Stanford are slipping as of late.

If they're hanging out there on the bubble and someone like Ohio St goes to a championship game and destroy's someone like they did Wisc.... yeah they could absolutely get passed by.

Roll of the dice.

 

[Dano564]

A single year's results isn't enough to win an argument that a broader playoff isn't needed.

The first year of the CFP, a team that barely got in as the #4 seed won it.
Since then, it's been all #1's and #2's, but the last two years the Big Ten has been left out.

Evidently losing to Iowa last year and Purdue this year (both by large margins) is worse than losing to a 4-8 Syracuse team last year for Clemson.

The system reeks of inconsistency. The only consistent item so far is that teams with 8 game conference schedules have yet to miss the CFP.

 

[ethomasp31]

A single year's results isn't enough to win an argument that a broader playoff isn't needed.

The first year of the CFP, a team that barely got in as the #4 seed won it.
Since then, it's been all #1's and #2's, but the last two years the Big Ten has been left out.

Evidently losing to Iowa last year and Purdue this year (both by large margins) is worse than losing to a 4-8 Syracuse team last year for Clemson.

The system reeks of inconsistency. The only consistent item so far is that teams with 8 game conference schedules have yet to miss the CFP.

I remember that year....I think both Baylor and TCU had good claims to the last spot, but OSU moved up in the last poll.

 

[Dano564]

I remember that year....I think both Baylor and TCU had good claims to the last spot, but OSU moved up in the last poll.

It was their 66-2 win over Sconnie that pushed them in. (exaggeration)

SEC Network was on suicide watch when Bama lost to OSU.

MSU losing 38-0 to Bama more recently hasn't helped the Big Ten's case however.

That was also the year TCU was pointing to their win over Minnesota as a quality win that Baylor didn't have.

 

[Panthadad2]

It was their 66-2 win over Sconnie that pushed them in. (exaggeration)

SEC Network was on suicide watch when Bama lost to OSU.

MSU losing 38-0 to Bama more recently hasn't helped the Big Ten's case however.

That was also the year TCU was pointing to their win over Minnesota as a quality win that Baylor didn't have.

I think both that MSU 38 to Donut loss to Alabama, followed by the Ohio State 31 to Donut loss to Clemson put a damper on BG10 hopes in the CFP for a few years. Notre Dame will probably get the stink-eye from the committee for at least a few years now too.

 

[ethomasp31]

It was their 66-2 win over Sconnie that pushed them in. (exaggeration)

SEC Network was on suicide watch when Bama lost to OSU.

MSU losing 38-0 to Bama more recently hasn't helped the Big Ten's case however.

That was also the year TCU was pointing to their win over Minnesota as a quality win that Baylor didn't have.

I know that I'm probably the only one who thinks this on this board....but I would love to see a 32 team playoff. That is an extra 3 games for the Champion and Runner Up, but these teams have rosters of over 100 players, unlike high school and professional teams which are usually much smaller. In Minnesota, high school teams play 8 regular season games, possibly 3 section games and then three games in the state tournament. In the NFL, there are 4 preseason games (I know they don't count for anything), 16 regular season games, and at least 3 more games to win the Super Bowl. The added schedule for the NCAA doesn't bother me.

I know that conferences don't want to give up their conference championship games, because those mean big money for conferences. So you would still have to have them. I would move the season up one week (possibly two....explained later), so the conference championship games, and the Army-Navy game would be moved up to Thanksgiving weekend. I would give the Automatic Bids to all conferences, with 22 at large bids. The NCAA basically gives away three weeks in December to the NFL...I don't think they need to give away the whole month.

Here is what I think would be cool. Have the conference championships Thanksgiving week (or possibly the week before), with a selection and seeding show that Sunday night. Have one half of the field play their round of 32 games the next Saturday (December 5 next year or Thanksgiving weekend), with the other half of the bracket the Saturday (December 12 or December 5) after that. Those games would be played at the higher seed. The 8 Sweet 16 games would all be played on December 18 and 19 or (December 11 and 12). If you wanted to give those games to the non New Years 6 Bowls that would be fine with me, but I would probably have those games at the higher seed as well.

Now we are down to 8 teams. If you moved the season up two weeks, you could have these games staggered throughout the week around Christmas like the Bowl games are now. I would rotate the quarterfinals and semifinals within the New Years 6 Bowls. We've already given away a lot of the conference tie-ins with the Bowls, so whats the difference now. Texas has played in the Rose Bowl for crying out loud!! The National Championship Bowl would be the National Championship Game, and that could move around to different sites like the Super Bowl.

Here is what the seeding could have looked like this year:

Alabama Region:

Alabama (1 SEC West) vs UAB (32 Conference USA West)
West Virginia (16 Big 12) vs Syracuse (17 ACC Atlantic)


Clemson Region:

Clemson (2 ACC Atlantic) vs Buffalo (31 Mid-American)
Kentucky (15 SEC East) vs Utah (18 Pac 12 South)


Notre Dame Region:

Notre Dame (3 Independent) vs Appalachian State (30 Sun Belt East)
Texas (14 Big 12) vs Mississippi State (19 SEC West)


Oklahoma Region:

Oklahoma (4 Big 12) vs Cincinnati (29 American Athletic East)
Washington State (13 Pac 12 North) vs Texas A&M (20 SEC West)


The Ohio State Region:

Ohio State (5 B1G East) vs North Carolina State (28 ACC Atlantic)
LSU (12 SEC West) vs Fresno State (21 Mountain West ~ West)


Georgia Region:

Georgia (6 SEC East) vs Iowa State (27 Big 12)
Penn State (11 B1G East) vs Utah State (22 Mountain West Mountain)


Central Florida Region:

UCF (7 American Atlantic East) vs Army (26 Independent)
Florida (10 SEC East) vs Northwestern (23 B1G West)


Michigan Region:

Michigan (8 B1G East) vs Missouri (25 SEC East)
Washington (9 Pac 12 North) vs Boise State (24 Mountain West Mountain)

This year in some of the Bowl games, teams best players sat out because the games didn't mean anything. I guarantee if they had this playoff tournament, the Michigan defensive starters wouldn't have sat out the game. I understand that the Gophers wouldn't have played in a Bowl game this year with this system, but they were 3-6 in the conference...did they deserve to play a post season game? I think there are too many Bowl games presently anyway. I watched most of the Bowl games this year and some of them looked like they had the same number of fans as the Prep Bowl.

The NCAA basketball tournament used to be 25 teams throughout the 50's until the early to mid 70's. Expanding it 32, 48, 64, 65 and now 68 was the best thing that has happened to the tournament. I think some of the first round games are awesome the way I have it set up, and I don't think you can include all conference champions unless it was a 32 team tournament.

The Orange Bowl would host the Alabama Region vs the Michigan Region

The Cotton Bowl would host the Oklahoma Region vs the Ohio State Region

The Peach Bowl would host the Clemson Region vs UCF Region

The Fiesta Bowl would host the Notre Dame Region vs Georgia Region

The Rose and Sugar Bowls would host the Semi-Finals and the National Championship Bowl would move around. Just a quick thought of what I would like to see. Imagine the excitement if the Gophers made the tournament....

 

[highwayman]

Incredible post and fun, but ludicrous.

My prediction: it will be a 4 team field for at least 10 more years. We may then see a 5 or 6 team playoff. 8 teams won’t happen for 20. Not competitive enough, and most fans will never travel for 4 games, let alone the 3 now. The cracks in the CCG plus 2 game playoff system attendance is already showing. I honestly do not see the CCGs going away, especially in the new 14 team mega-conference era.