ESPN OTL Title IX Proposal to cut football scholarships

[supadupafly]

That's the interesting part isn't it? Let's say the people who want University sports to only be Minor Leagues for the Pros win. They kill all the Non-Revenue Mens programs and all the Women's programs. That would leave just Football, Basketball, Men's Hockey in a handful of schools and maybe Baseball down South and Volleyball out West.

How many schools would still claim the athletes having higher Graduation rates?

another straw man argument. you are dealing in the hypothetical.

 

[Iceland12]

another straw man argument. you are dealing in the hypothetical.

What "straw man" argument? Football, basketball and maybe even hockey don't get better graduation rates then the student body as a whole at most universities. For a guy who's spent most of the day campaigning against any Non-revenue programs your "Graduation Rate" argument isn't "hypothetical".

It's hypocritical to the nth degree.

It's pretty funny though.

 

[FanSinceTheFifties]

You are kidding, right? The whole purpose of the NCAA is to have the athletes of the schools to continue their studies while continuing their career or passion as an athlete.

If only. The purpose of the NCAA is to make money. If the purpose was to get student-athletes to continue their studies, the scholarship rules would encourage graduation. e.g. if a scholarship holder leaves his school prior to graduating, the remainder of that scholarship must be awarded to a student non-athlete. That would encourage schools to recruit good students who stay with their schools and graduate rather than use the schools to audition for the NBA and NFL.

 

[dpodoll68]

The purpose of the NCAA is to make money.

That's a rather interesting comment to make vis-a-vis football scholarships, since the NCAA makes virtually nothing from football.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

If your sport does not bring in money to the University, you do not deserve an athletic scholarship. Hockey, Football, Basketball. Cut all athletic scholarships to non-revenue sports. It's not sexist, it's reality. If a kid wants to play Tennis in school, by all means let him. But don't give him a $60,000+ plus scholarship to hit a tennis ball in front of 6 fans.

 

[Goldmember]

Wait, are you saying Title IX is the reason there are more girls at college than guys? Seriously? Guys dropping out has to do with women getting as many athletic scholarships as men? Men aren't engaged in their school as women because women get as many athletic scholarships as men? Absolutely ridiculous.

Title IX is about far more than creating equality in federally-funded scholarships as so many suggest in this thread. This was the disengenous sales-pitch used by its supporters in the 80's and 90's. The fact is it, it's primary effect was to gut boys athletics programs in junior high schools, high schools and small regional universities. In high-schools scores of programs specifically intended to engage female students are excluded from Title IX. This is where the policy was particularly vicious to boys. For generations, athletics were essentially being used a way of bribing boys into sitting still long enough to discover their possible academic potential.

Also, I explicity said that it is not the reason there are more girls than boys at colleges. It is, perhaps, one reason. But the biggest reason American boys are turning-away from college is that they are being practical. A college education no longer pays for itself. And it isn't even close. Even using historical data for long-term scenarios, it can no longer be justified unless a student has extraordinary potential or someone willing to foot the bill. But that is an entirely different topic.

The fact is that Title IX is going to be a casualty to the times. As a policy, it is a tremendous social failure. Right now colleges are selling mostly "the experience" to students. Its a much more compelling sales-pitch to girls than boys (who, for some odd reason don't seem interested in working on the oil fields in North Dakota, for instance). For now, there are a lot of parents very willing to write checks to send their daugters somewhere for a few years where she will both be coddled and maybe find a decent lifelong companion (or so the story goes). But as the boys continue to vanish from college campuses the experiential value to girls diminishes, while the cost continues to spiral out-of-control.

Colleges will need to find a way to engage boys. How do we suppose they will accomplish this? We can have thousands of attorneys write all the legal language we want. And we can hire people to decipher it and make a career out of enforcing it. But it all comes back to trucks and balls. It's so simple it hurts.

 

[MplsHammer]

Make cheerleading count as a sport. They already perform in front of more fans than all the other women's sports combined. It is cheap and there are no facilities to maintain. Also, investments in these athletes-- and that's what they are-- go towards improving the overall product (gameday experience) for $$$ producing sports.

Plus, no one buys rowing calendars.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=easterbrook/100727

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/s...njury-research-cheerleading-riskier-football/

 

[gaunt006]

Title IX is now outdated. Instead of it creating opportunities for women, it's taking away opportunities for men.

And this is the problem. It's doing more harm than good now. You have a lot schools cutting baseball and other sports. You also can't hurt football because it's paying for almost everything. I think the answer really has to be, take football out of the title9 equation.

 

[zambam]

And this is the problem. It's doing more harm than good now. You have a lot schools cutting baseball and other sports. You also can't hurt football because it's paying for almost everything. I think the answer really has to be, take football out of the title9 equation.

I'm tellin' ya, there is real potential in lingerie football.

 

[RodentRampage]

Careful, Title IX might be flying overhead in their black helicopters.

 

[gopheraschells]

Title IX is about far more than creating equality in federally-funded scholarships as so many suggest in this thread. This was the disengenous sales-pitch used by its supporters in the 80's and 90's. The fact is it, it's primary effect was to gut boys athletics programs in junior high schools, high schools and small regional universities. In high-schools scores of programs specifically intended to engage female students are excluded from Title IX. This is where the policy was particularly vicious to boys. For generations, athletics were essentially being used a way of bribing boys into sitting still long enough to discover their possible academic potential.

Also, I explicity said that it is not the reason there are more girls than boys at colleges. It is, perhaps, one reason. But the biggest reason American boys are turning-away from college is that they are being practical. A college education no longer pays for itself. And it isn't even close. Even using historical data for long-term scenarios, it can no longer be justified unless a student has extraordinary potential or someone willing to foot the bill. But that is an entirely different topic.

The fact is that Title IX is going to be a casualty to the times. As a policy, it is a tremendous social failure. Right now colleges are selling mostly "the experience" to students. Its a much more compelling sales-pitch to girls than boys (who, for some odd reason don't seem interested in working on the oil fields in North Dakota, for instance). For now, there are a lot of parents very willing to write checks to send their daugters somewhere for a few years where she will both be coddled and maybe find a decent lifelong companion (or so the story goes). But as the boys continue to vanish from college campuses the experiential value to girls diminishes, while the cost continues to spiral out-of-control.

Colleges will need to find a way to engage boys. How do we suppose they will accomplish this? We can have thousands of attorneys write all the legal language we want. And we can hire people to decipher it and make a career out of enforcing it. But it all comes back to trucks and balls. It's so simple it hurts.

Are you the guy who would hang anti-Title IX posters in Ridder arena a couple of years ago?

 

[To Be Named Later]

And this is the problem. It's doing more harm than good now. You have a lot schools cutting baseball and other sports. You also can't hurt football because it's paying for almost everything. I think the answer really has to be, take football out of the title9 equation.

Try to look at it from the other side. You view baseball as more necessary than the women's alternative. Not everyone feels that way.

Everyone loves the idea of equality until they actually have to give something up to achieve it.

 

[AO54]

Try to look at it from the other side. You view baseball as more necessary than the women's alternative. Not everyone feels that way.

Everyone loves the idea of equality until they actually have to give something up to achieve it.

Everybody loves equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. If a baseball team generates more support than a softball team, outcomes will/should be different. Would the softball team cease to exist if it didn't have scholarships? Who are these girls willing to pay to play on D3 or rec league softball teams? End discrimination based upon gender now. Repeal Title IX.