ESPN: Most indispensable players: Minnesota (Gray and Stoudermire)

[BleedGopher]

Let's resume our series looking at the most indispensable players on each Big Ten squad entering the 2012 season. Once again, this is not necessarily a listing of the best players on each team, but ones whose absence would be toughest to absorb because of their particular value or a lack of depth behind them.

We're selecting two players from each Big Ten squad, usually one on offense and one on defense, but not always. Up next, the Minnesota Golden Gophers.

MarQueis Gray, QB, Sr.

While the Philip Nelson prophecy grew this spring, the fact remains that Gray is the team's only proven weapon on offense. He carried the unit at times in 2011, setting a team record for quarterback rushing with 996 yards and adding 1,495 yards through the air. While there's no doubt Gray must make significant upgrades in the passing game, he should be more comfortable in his second year in Matt Limegrover's system. Minnesota lacks proven playmakers around No. 5, and the idea of a Gophers offense without Gray on the field is extremely daunting. Gray can make a lot happen on the ground, as he showed with consecutive 160-yard rushing performances to finish the 2011 season. And he has shown glimpses as a passer, like a 295-yard effort at Michigan State. Consistency is the key with him, but Minnesota needs to keep Gray upright and healthy this fall.

Troy Stoudermire, CB/returner, Sr.

Minnesota received a huge boost when the NCAA granted Stoudermire a medical hardship waiver in January. The secondary loses its undisputed leader in safety Kim Royston, and while some experienced defensive backs like Brock Vereen return, Stoudermire's presence provides a big boost. Stoudermire recorded 24 tackles, two interceptions and three pass breakups in the first five games last fall and still led the team in interceptions at the end of the season. He's a natural playmaker who Minnesota can send against opponents' top receivers. Stoudermire also gives the Gophers a record-setting return man in the kicking game.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/49735/most-indispensable-players-minnesota

Go Gophers!!

 

[John Galt]

Gray is a no-brainer, but I disagree with Stoudemire. My vote would be for Hageman on defense, as the depth and talent would really fall off without him.

 

[harrys ghost]

Stoudermire played in four games last year (http://www.gophersports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/stoudermire_troy00.html). The ESPN guys are clueless when it comes to the Gophers. If I am not mistaken, we are the only B1G team they did not visit during spring practice (I believe the last time they did actually visit was during the '09 season).

 

[GoAUpher]

I am pretty sure Stoudermire played in four games last year. The ESPN guys are pretty clueless when it comes to the Gophers.

Gopher Sports says he he played in 5 games. As I recall it's one reason he wasn't a total lock for the hardship waiver.

 

[harrys ghost]

Gopher Sports says he he played in 5 games. As I recall it's one reason he wasn't a total lock for the hardship waiver.

Gopher Sports says four (see the link in my previous post). I do specifically remember a game last year where Troy was suited up but with a different color jersey and the post game participation list showed that he played.

 

[GoAUpher]

Sure enough (sorry, missed the link when I was typing). But check my link too and run a find on "Troy". In the season stats (my link) they show him for 5. If you go through the game by games they only show 4. My point is that it's not consistent and it's an easy mistake to make when the U's own season stats page says 5.

EDIT: Screenshot of the part of the page I'm talking about:

 

[Monty519]

Gray is a no-brainer, but I disagree with Stoudemire. My vote would be for Hageman on defense, as the depth and talent would really fall off without him.

Hageman hasn't done it for a full year, but I tend to lean toward agreeing with this. I think our secondary depth will be much better this year. But at DT, I'm not so sure. Plus Hageman looks like he could potentially go beast mode on this season.

 

[GoAUpher]

Hageman hasn't done it for a full year, but I tend to lean toward agreeing with this. I think our secondary depth will be much better this year. But at DT, I'm not so sure. Plus Hageman looks like he could potentially go beast mode on this season.

I also agree with the reasoning, but it's all dependent on Hageman playing to his potential for an extended period. Until that happens I can't blame them for picking a proven starter first.

 

[harrys ghost]

Sure enough (sorry, missed the link when I was typing). But check my link too and run a find on "Troy". In the season stats (my link) they show him for 5. If you go through the game by games they only show 4. My point is that it's not consistent and it's an easy mistake to make when the U's own season stats page says 5.

EDIT: Screenshot of the part of the page I'm talking about:

USA Today managed to figure it out (http://sportsdirect.usatoday.com/football/ncaaf-players.aspx?page=/data/ncaaf/players/player37231.html). Unfortunately, the U's stat sheets are pretty poor. Still, Bennett and Rittenberg are only responsible for the B1G. If all they do is look at one stat sheet (and I am sure that is all they do) why bother pretending to offer analysis?

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

USA Today managed to figure it out (http://sportsdirect.usatoday.com/football/ncaaf-players.aspx?page=/data/ncaaf/players/player37231.html). Unfortunately, the U's stat sheets are pretty poor. Still, Bennett and Rittenberg are only responsible for the B1G. If all they do is look at one stat sheet (and I am sure that is all they do) why bother pretending to offer analysis?

I'm sorry, but he knew that Stoudermire played some games last year, but not all, and to make sure he got the correct number of games he checked the team's official stats page, and that isn't good enough? Even if they did check other stat sheets, which do you trust? It'd be one thing if he hit Wikipedia and didn't follow up by going to the team's site, but going to Gophersports.com should be adequate. This isn't a doctoral thesis.

 

[GoAUpher]

I'm sorry, but he knew that Stoudermire played some games last year, but not all, and to make sure he got the correct number of games he checked the team's official stats page, and that isn't good enough? Even if they did check other stat sheets, which do you trust? It'd be one thing if he hit Wikipedia and didn't follow up by going to the team's site, but going to Gophersports.com should be adequate. This isn't a doctoral thesis.

Exactly.

If all they do is look at one stat sheet (and I am sure that is all they do) why bother pretending to offer analysis?

Should they really need to do more? Seriously? It's the U's official stats page. They should be able to trust them. The analysis isn't impacted by this error. His point is the same either way. If you disagree with it, you're disagreement isn't based on the number of games. It's based on if you think another player is more indispensable (something not tied to whether Troy played 4 or 5 games last season).

 

[GopherHomer]

I sincerely hope Hageman proves to be indispensable this year, but at this point I think Gray is the only player that fits this description for the Gophers. Nobody else has risen above his peers enough. I agree that we are deeper in the defensive backfield than at tackle, but Stoudamire definitely proven to be more of an impact player than Hageman. Again, I hope Hageman makes this post preposterous with his play this fall...

 

[RedPoo]

I've got to come to the defense of ESPN on this one, though admittedly from the a non-expert POV. Going into the year the way Kill talked about Stoudemire made it sound like he was going to be a lynchpin of that defense. If I remember right the idea was to leave Troy on an island at boundary corner and cheat the safety help to the other side of the field...I don't know how much of that was making the most of Troy's talent versus standard operating procedure for Claeys and Kill, but heading into this season if anyone asked me I would have said getting him a 6th year would be most important thing that could happen for this team.
I agree that Hageman performing is important for a successful season, but we already saw what a train wreck this secondary can be without Stoudemire, and that doesn't even take into account what he can bring to the table in special teams. ...and speaking of that, is it the assumption that Stoudemire will be the primary return man next season? I feel like I've heard he may not be, but I can't remember where.

 

[nc2mn]

Hageman performing up to expectations also makes Stoudermire and the secondary a lot better

 

[supadupafly]

real deep, hard hitting stuff by espn here. just kidding. thanks for the link.

 

[Sportsfan24]

My vote would be for MG and MC (Michael Carter), MG is obvious and MC allows BV to stay at safety. A high performing MC takes care of two spots (and no... I don't see anyone else aside from TS, MC or BV successfully manning the CB spots as starters.)

 

[John Galt]

be would vote for MG and MC (Michael Carter), MG is obvious and MC allows BV to stay at safety. A high performing MC takes care of two spots (and no... I don't see anyone else aside from TS, MC or BV successfully manning the CB spots as starters.)

Interesting take. I don't entirely agree because it seems that we have some depth at CB with Shabazz, Balthazaar, and Boddy. But it will be nice to have an engaged MC, which will allow the JC guys to all be back-ups. This is what has killed us the last 5 years, we would have to depend on 1st year JCs or freshmen to come in and start. If one of the JC corners is starting, it will be because they've earned it over TS and MC, two guys that have been in the program for a number of years, not by default.

 

[Ogie Ogilthorpe]

The argument for "Most Indispensable" being Hageman is one based strictly on talent and performance (and maybe a little bit because of lack of depth on the DL).

I think the argument for Troy is a stronger one, and it's moreso from an experience and leadership standpoint. On a defense that is relatively young and inexperienced, I think Troy is the "Most Indispensable", with maybe Keanon Cooper a close second. The defense this year is going to need leadership on the field and I'm pretty sure that's not coming from Hageman, or even Michael Carter. Same reason Royston was valuable last year. Royston racked up the tackles and looked good statistically but his value was because of his experience and senior presence.

 

[Sportsfan24]

The argument for "Most Indispensable" being Hageman is one based strictly on talent and performance (and maybe a little bit because of lack of depth on the DL).

I think the argument for Troy is a stronger one, and it's moreso from an experience and leadership standpoint. On a defense that is relatively young and inexperienced, I think Troy is the "Most
Indispensable", with maybe Keanon Cooper a close second. The defense this year is going to need
leadership on the field and I'm pretty sure that's not coming from Hageman, or even Michael
Carter. Same reason Royston was valuable last year. Royston racked up the tackles and looked
good statistically but his value was because of his experience and senior presence.

Great points. From an experience stand point Troy would rank significantly below Brock having less than a season worth of games as a defensive player. I love Troys swag and potential but he hasn't played a lot of games. Brock has faced a lot of adversity and as responded each time. I believe that experience and leadership will benefit the team.

Mike Carter has always been a player and this spring was the best DB on the field hands down. The question is; can Mike Carter get out of his own way?