Correct
Which is why most high end guys wouldn’t enter a unionization effort
And with right to work laws, they wouldn’t be forced into a union either
ESPN: Effort to unionize college athletes hits stumbling block
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Which is why most high end guys wouldn’t enter a unionization effort
And with right to work laws, they wouldn’t be forced into a union either
50PoundHead
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I think we are in agreement. We were just looking at the issue from both the pre- and post-organizing efforts.
Oneoldgopher
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The players association reminds me of the last line in the Declaration. "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and sacred Honor." Not that it matters to this discussion.
No per a collective bargaining agreement they could get booted out of college football.
Do you think NFL owners are paying players on the side?
Really, are you sure.
There is currently court precedent saying no one can be forced to join a union. Per The current national labor relations act non union members couldn’t be discriminated in hiring
Not really many ways around those two things together
No because the nfl owners signed the agreement. Thus making it an agreement.
But other people can give endorsements out. It is literally why some players prefer to be in certain markets instead of others.
Yes. I am sure.
So who is getting paid outside their salary to be on a certain team in the NFL.
You must have one easy one.
GopherTheJugular
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Their doesn't have to be a current example right at this moment in order for the concept to exist and be possible.
For example, currently no one is walking on the moon, but that doesn't mean we can't.
You lost the argument, both me and @Some guy have pointed out the flaw in your logic. Just accept that and move on.
Ski U Mah Gopher
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They don't have to join the union, but the union agreement would set parameters for length of eligibility, amounts allowed to be paid by the school or their affiliates, etc.
A player cannot play forever just because they are not in the union.
There are all kinds of guys with local endorsements that would go away if they left the market
Naz Reid TSR time
Are you serious?
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Not yet
A player doesn’t have to reject all endorsement aka NIL offers just because some union they aren’t apart of and aren’t required to join agreed to cap NIL. At least not according to current precedent. The Supreme Court has already said they can’t limit 3rd party payments in relation to NIL
I don’t understand this argument people are making. Do people think college athletes would join a union for the sake of limiting their compensation. There is a 0% chance a players union would agree to limit third party payments endorsements. What is in it for them?
Second of all, even if they did, precedent says that contract would get overturned by the courts anyways.
Saying NIL would be capped requires two things:
The people running the players union negotiating compensation away from themselves rather than towards themselves
AND
Overturning current, recent, precedent
50PoundHead
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That's my understanding as well. A person doesn't have to join a union (but still get to be free-riders on whatever the union contract has in terms of benefits), but they are still governed by what the union has negotiated.
The union can’t negotiate the end of NIL though
The current court precedents would not uphold a union telling someone else they can’t accept a third party endorsement/compensation
You are correct that non joiners would be governed by whatever is negotiated and agreed upon. You are incorrect that the negotiations would be free to negotiate whatever they want and it would stand
If a players union negotiated with the ncaa to not allow 3rd party endorsements, this would be overturned almost immediately upon challenge.
I could be wrong in this. The Supreme Court could overturn all the precedents they have been setting the last couple of years and we could go back to 2019. I don’t think that’s likely though
They could negotiate some things. They could agree no NIL work during “work” hours
They could agree no NIL stuff in sanctioned gear
Etc
But I’m not sure why the players would negotiate that against themselves
If you want to legislate NIL you probably need congress to step in and mess with the tax structure to slow it down.
If endorsement deals for college athletes were deductible, the amount of money just slowed down
If they were subject to targeted taxes, that would slow it down.
Etc
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GopherTheJugular
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The only thing I can think of is that some posters on here are starting with the result they would like to see (financial parity) and then they are working backwards in hopes of finding a starting point, which they haven't and won't be able to do, for the specific reasons you articulated in your last two posts (#40, #42).
50PoundHead
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Agree with the NIL part. Same goes with the pros as has been pointed out. Pat Mahomes isn't limited in what endorsements he can seek and the same would likely be in place for any college players' union. I think the union effort would be misguided to attempt that, but I think what the players are trying to do is get some protections for the "average" player. Unions can create a "floor" without implementing a "ceiling."
And I did leave something out on union non-joiners. They would receive the same compensation/benefit package that the union has negotiated with management, but they would not be able to access some benefits that are outside the contract like legal expenses in the case of termination. Non-joiners would likely need to seek outside counsel in those instances.
And I did leave something out on union non-joiners. They would receive the same compensation/benefit package that the union has negotiated with management, but they would not be able to access some benefits that are outside the contract like legal expenses in the case of termination. Non-joiners would likely need to seek outside counsel in those instances.
Correct
But telling a college athlete they can’t get NIL deals is like telling a teachers union tech ed teacher they can’t finish a basement for compensation in their free time.
Would never hold up in court
There is a lot of stuff they can negotiate though
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Pompous Elitist
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To a person of a certain age TSR time had more to do with Gary Gygax than ambulance chasers.
Pompous Elitist
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Going back to 2011 the threats of antitrust lawsuits brought the owners to the table. The players have given up way, way more than they ever should have. So have fans. Why NFL fans and their congresspeople allow the ownership model to continue is one of life’s great mysteries.
www.espn.com
NFLPA decertifies, files antitrust suit against NFL
Unable to decide how to divvy up $9 billion a year, NFL owners and players put the country's most popular sport in limbo Friday by breaking off labor negotiations hours before their contract expired.
GopherGrit
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GopherGrit
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Fans are tuning in with record numbers.
What have they given up? The NFL is the best sports model in the world, by far.
GopherGrit
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If it requires brand new law, then that's the hill I will plant myself on.
Make major college football be like the NFL, in terms of this stuff, as much as you can. Collective bargaining and salary caps, in whatever way the NFL does it.
There is no right to play sports at a school. So I personally am not interested in the idea of "you can't force someone to go to a specific school to play football if the school doesn't have the program that they want to study".
Nope. Then go study that program at that other school, and don't play football. That's what you should do, actually. Football is a luxury and a privilege. Not a right.
Make major college football be like the NFL, in terms of this stuff, as much as you can. Collective bargaining and salary caps, in whatever way the NFL does it.
There is no right to play sports at a school. So I personally am not interested in the idea of "you can't force someone to go to a specific school to play football if the school doesn't have the program that they want to study".
Nope. Then go study that program at that other school, and don't play football. That's what you should do, actually. Football is a luxury and a privilege. Not a right.
The problem is there aren’t people who throw Random millions at guys in the form of “endorsements” to make a guy go to an nfl city but they are willing to do that for their school
GopherGrit
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I would believe this.
What about crowdsourcing, though? Isn't that effectively what DTA does for the Gophers?
Let's start up the Skol Vikings NIL Booster Club! If we can funnel $10M of crowdsourced money to a player as a NIL deal, if he agrees to sign with the Vikings for $10M less of salary cap hit.
Is this actually allowed by NFL rules, and just no one has ever tried it??
It takes a lot more work to crowdsource
If I have 100 million in investments and make 5%
I can give 4 million in nil and still be net positive. Could do the same next year
Crowd sourcing is a never ending game
Seems easier to have a sugar daddy
Bob_Loblaw
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The NFL doesn’t need to because it’s a national game with national TV rights. This happens in the NBA.
LeBron essentially started a TV network after moving to the Lakers at the same time ESPN, in all their wisdom, decided to focus on LA.
It’s shocking they are essentially controlled now by a drunk former punter and his buddies.
Bob_Loblaw
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I’m not sure if it will. I don’t think the NCAA thinks it will. I think it’s the entire reason we don’t have a more direct model.
I always thought Title IX would prevent guardrails. I desperately hope I’m wrong.
GopherTheJugular
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Pompous Elitist
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Sports betting effect ? The product is actually pretty crap compared to days gone by, or CFB. In terms of percentage of media viewers not absolute numbers I believe the percentage share is down from the heyday 70s/80s/90s. My 2 cent opinion.
As far as allowing public ownership of entities (and their media partners) granted very sweet antitrust immunity deals
