ESPN: Big Ten race update: Week 11 - Legends Division (Still alive: Minnesota)

[BleedGopher]

per ESPN:

Still alive: Minnesota (3-2) would need to win out, including a victory over Michigan State in the season finale, and have the Spartans lose somewhere else. The Gophers would own the head-to-head tiebreaker over MSU and Nebraska in that scenario. Michigan (2-2) needs a lot of help after losing to the Spartans last week. The Wolverines would need to win out and have Michigan State lose its final three games. If that were to happen, Michigan would go to Indy because it would own the head-to-head tiebreakers against Nebraska and Minnesota.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/88389/big-ten-conference-race-update-week-11

Go Gophers!!

 

[Dr.Don]

Slim as the chances are, it is really exciting and interesting to read about the Gophers still alive instead of just hoping for some kind of Bowl bid.

 

[MNGoldenGophers1]

Slim as the chances are, it is really exciting and interesting to read about the Gophers still alive instead of just hoping for some kind of Bowl bid.

+1

 

[fryguy22]

Question: what happens in the (unlikely) event that Michigan, MSU and the Gophers all finish 6-2?

 

[Cayman]

Question: what happens in the (unlikely) event that Michigan, MSU and the Gophers all finish 6-2?

I think it then goes to either overall record or division record.

 

[killme]

per ESPN:

Still alive: Minnesota (3-2) would need to win out, including a victory over Michigan State in the season finale, and have the Spartans lose somewhere else....AND HAVE NEBRASKA LOSE ONCE MORE. The Gophers would own the head-to-head tiebreaker over MSU and Nebraska in that scenario. Michigan (2-2) needs a lot of help after losing to the Spartans last week. The Wolverines would need to win out and have Michigan State lose its final three games. If that were to happen, Michigan would go to Indy because it would own the head-to-head tiebreakers against Nebraska and Minnesota.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/88389/big-ten-conference-race-update-week-11

Go Gophers!!

Gophers need a little more help than the ESPN folks realize... But, when was the last time anyone here was scoreboard watching in November? You know, it's not completely far-fetched that Sparty and the Huskers could lose in the next 3 weeks. Oh yeah, and Mich needs to lose, too, but that Ohio game is looking like a lock for that... If the Gophers win this Saturday, wouldn't that be a fun bye week?

 

[Amateur Hour]

Question: what happens in the (unlikely) event that Michigan, MSU and the Gophers all finish 6-2?

When Wisconsin, MSU, Osu had that scenario in 2010, Wisconsin won the tie breaker because they were the highest ranked in the BCS standings. Not sure if they changed that rule after the divisions were introduced or not.

 

[Sparlimb]

When Wisconsin, MSU, Osu had that scenario in 2010, Wisconsin won the tie breaker because they were the highest ranked in the BCS standings. Not sure if they changed that rule after the divisions were introduced or not.

They did. I asked that same question in another thread a few weeks back and someone posted the tie breaking procedures. I'll see if I can find it...

 

[SelectionSunday]

When Wisconsin, MSU, Osu had that scenario in 2010, Wisconsin won the tie breaker because they were the highest ranked in the BCS standings. Not sure if they changed that rule after the divisions were introduced or not.

MSU got hosed that year. Among the 3 tied teams, MSU was 1-0, Wisconsin was 1-1, and Ohio State was 0-1. ... Sparty and OSU didn't play that season. It's the only 3-way tiebreaker in the history of sports that I remember going to a team that did not have the best head-to-head record among the tied teams.

Not only did Wisconsin get the Rose Bowl berth (over a team it lost to head to head), Ohio State got the Big Ten's 2nd BCS berth, only to be busted later for Terrelle Pryor and Company's shenanigans.

 

[jaymil]

Here are the tiebreakers:

http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-footbl/archive/081011aaa.html

 

[RodentRampage]

I think I could manage to live with a first-place tie even if the Gophers didn't win the tie-breaker. It would still be a first-place finish.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Gophers need a little more help than the ESPN folks realize... But, when was the last time anyone here was scoreboard watching in November? You know, it's not completely far-fetched that Sparty and the Huskers could lose in the next 3 weeks. Oh yeah, and Mich needs to lose, too, but that Ohio game is looking like a lock for that... If the Gophers win this Saturday, wouldn't that be a fun bye week?

This is the beauty of the division setup vs. the old way with everyone being in one big pool. Under the old format there really would be no scenario that would get the Gophers to a championship because we would have to leapfrog two undefeated squads and some other teams to get there. Now the possibility is there but a ton of things would have to break right for it to happen and frankly for as much as we all are enjoying the winning streak I really don't want to see this team go up against Ohio State this year, don't think it would be pretty.

Right now I would be thrilled to see the Gophers snag one more win in the conference (most likely on Saturday against PSU) and get to a decent bowl.

 

[FreakyDeke]

This is the beauty of the division setup vs. the old way with everyone being in one big pool. Under the old format there really would be no scenario that would get the Gophers to a championship because we would have to leapfrog two undefeated squads and some other teams to get there. Now the possibility is there but a ton of things would have to break right for it to happen and frankly for as much as we all are enjoying the winning streak I really don't want to see this team go up against Ohio State this year, don't think it would be pretty.

Right now I would be thrilled to see the Gophers snag one more win in the conference (most likely on Saturday against PSU) and get to a decent bowl.

There were many on this very board that said splitting into divisions would make it harder for the Gophers to win a BT Championship. I argued the opposite for this very reason. Sure, you could still end up getting killed by OSU, but you have a 1 game chance at it that you otherwise wouldn't have.

 

[SelectionSunday]

There were many on this very board that said splitting into divisions would make it harder for the Gophers to win a BT Championship. I argued the opposite for this very reason. Sure, you could still end up getting killed by OSU, but you have a 1 game chance at it that you otherwise wouldn't have.

Perfectly stated.

Not to mention, long term the East Division (starting in 2014) will be a heck of a lot more daunting to get out of than the West. The West is the better place to be in terms of getting a "one-shot" deal at the Rose Bowl.

 

[Cayman]

MSU got hosed that year. Among the 3 tied teams, MSU was 1-0, Wisconsin was 1-1, and Ohio State was 0-1. ... Sparty and OSU didn't play that season. It's the only 3-way tiebreaker in the history of sports that I remember going to a team that did not have the best head-to-head record among the tied teams.

Not only did Wisconsin get the Rose Bowl berth (over a team it lost to head to head), Ohio State got the Big Ten's 2nd BCS berth, only to be busted later for Terrelle Pryor and Company's shenanigans.

I've said it before that two of Wisconsin's last three Rose Bowls have been because of Ohio State's cheating.

 

[maroonedinCA]

I've said it before that two of Wisconsin's last three Rose Bowls have been because of Ohio State's cheating.

I'm confused. I understand last year's was because they were inelligible but what of the previous two years? The first of the three they beat OSU head to head and the only team that could/should object is MSU but the following year they won the Leaders outright and beat MSU in the BCG and last year OSUs cheating allowed them in. Based on that, OSUs cheating only impacted one Badger team.

 

[SelectionSunday]

No question, two of the last three years UW was at the right place at the right time. 1st it was being the beneficiary of a messed up tiebreaker (2010) that has since been fixed (lotta' good that does MSU now). 2nd it was the good fortune (2012) of finishing 3rd behind two schools (tOSU, PSU) in their division that both happened to be on probation.

To his credit, the Big Dufus parlayed that good fortune into the Arkansas job.

 

[killme]

This is the beauty of the division setup vs. the old way with everyone being in one big pool. Under the old format there really would be no scenario that would get the Gophers to a championship because we would have to leapfrog two undefeated squads and some other teams to get there. Now the possibility is there but a ton of things would have to break right for it to happen and frankly for as much as we all are enjoying the winning streak I really don't want to see this team go up against Ohio State this year, don't think it would be pretty.

Right now I would be thrilled to see the Gophers snag one more win in the conference (most likely on Saturday against PSU) and get to a decent bowl.

So, the Gophers win out, are 10-2 and you wouldn't want to see them go up against Ohio? Wow. They need to win this Saturday and take it from there, but I'd love to measure the team against tough competition and I'd be surprised if the players and coaches weren't striving for that very thing.

 

[MNVCGUY]

So, the Gophers win out, are 10-2 and you wouldn't want to see them go up against Ohio? Wow. They need to win this Saturday and take it from there, but I'd love to measure the team against tough competition and I'd be surprised if the players and coaches weren't striving for that very thing.

Obviously if they win out that changes things because at that point they would have proven they can play with pretty much anyone in this conference. I just don't think we are in the same league as MSU and Wisconsin this year, Michigan State has an awesome defense that has been shutting teams down all season and Wisconsin's run game is going to cause major issues for us.

But hey, way to twist my comment around and make up your own conclusion about my opinions.

 

[maroonedinCA]

No question, two of the last three years UW was at the right place at the right time. 1st it was being the beneficiary of a messed up tiebreaker (2010) that has since been fixed (lotta' good that does MSU now). 2nd it was the good fortune (2012) of finishing 3rd behind two schools (tOSU, PSU) in their division that both happened to be on probation.

To his credit, the Big Dufus parlayed that good fortune into the Arkansas job.

I don't disagree, but I was arguing that it wasn't 2 Rose Bowls directly attributable to OSU's scandal.

 

[killme]

Um, my apologies if I twisted your words. I thought I just bolded them, questioned them, and presented my opposing views. Perhaps you didn't understand my point, or have it twisted somehow. Let me say this: on paper Wisc, Sparty and Ohio are better than the Gophers. So were Nebraska, Northwestern and Indiana.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Um, my apologies if I twisted your words. I thought I just bolded them, questioned them, and presented my opposing views. Perhaps you didn't understand my point, or have it twisted somehow. Let me say this: on paper Wisc, Sparty and Ohio are better than the Gophers. So were Nebraska, Northwestern and Indiana.

It is what it is, I am not going to get into another drawn out battle with you over this kind of crap. We have wasted too much board space in other threads on that already.

The reason I don't see us winning out is pretty simple. Look at the conference rushing stats and note the two teams that have been the most dominant against the run this season. MSU is giving up something like 30 yards per game and Wisconsin is holding teams under 100 per as well. Our three wins have come against teams with some definite defensive issues (Indiana may be the worst of all time), that won't be the case in those last two games. And before anyone gets all bent out of shape I am not trying to detract from the wins or say they are not valid, they are all very quality conference wins, I just think people are getting ahead of themselves putting this squad in the championship picture at all. We are solidly in that second tier in the conference with the likes of Nebraska, Michigan, Iowa, Penn State, and Northwestern but I don't believe we are ready for prime time.

We are a middle of the pack team and that is not an insult, it is a sign of progress.

 

[WolfontheProwl]

Does anyone really scoreboard watch at this point with thoughts of a Big Ten title game in the Gophers future? I check the scores to see who is winning but I truelly have never looked at them with the thought of hey the Gophers have a shot. The season has been great but the only thing I can think about is beating Penn State. When that is done it will be the Badgers. After this week the Gophers will need to pull off a mamoth sized upset to win either of the last two games. I think this season has already been great but beating Penn State would mean a .500 record and I wont get any greedy after that. If the Gophers win one of their last two games I think it will be against MSU because of their offensive troubles and the fact they may have everything taken care of for a Big Ten title game.

 

[WolfontheProwl]

MNVCGUY I totally agree with you. The Gophers have shown growth and have improved from last year to this year and after Nelson has gotten healthy have shown improvement from game 1 until now. With that said this conference is not very strong this season IMO and the Gophers are one of about 5 or 6 teams that can beat each other on any given night. I am happy to see the wins and they are great but its not like we are knocking off top 25 teams in the country we are beating teams with glaring holes and problems. Gophers are improving and that is a great sign but we are still a couple of steps away from being a conference contender.

 

[BarnBoy]

I see it differently. With the three-game winning streak, whatever happens the rest of the way is gravy. No one expected that step up and who's to say that another step up can't be taken for the last four games.

Even if we have some glaring weaknesses, it's fun to think about the stars aligning and us stealing the division. It would still count. We don't have to put anywhere in the record books that we weren't really the best team in the division, and a whole lot of things had to happen for us to take it. Wisconsin doesn't have to put in their trophy case a sign saying that OSU was ineligible.

Dream a little. We are in unfamiliar territory.

 

[jaymil]

Does anyone really scoreboard watch at this point with thoughts of a Big Ten title game in the Gophers future? I check the scores to see who is winning but I truelly have never looked at them with the thought of hey the Gophers have a shot. The season has been great but the only thing I can think about is beating Penn State. When that is done it will be the Badgers. After this week the Gophers will need to pull off a mamoth sized upset to win either of the last two games. I think this season has already been great but beating Penn State would mean a .500 record and I wont get any greedy after that. If the Gophers win one of their last two games I think it will be against MSU because of their offensive troubles and the fact they may have everything taken care of for a Big Ten title game.

I won't start scoreboard watching unless we beat PSU. If that happens, we have a bye week and you better believe I'll be laying out scenarios that get us to the B1G championship game and rooting for teams that we need to win. Obviously we need to win out and that will be difficult, but it'll be tough not to think about it over the bye week.

 

[ToddisGahd]

No question, two of the last three years UW was at the right place at the right time. 1st it was being the beneficiary of a messed up tiebreaker (2010) that has since been fixed (lotta' good that does MSU now). 2nd it was the good fortune (2012) of finishing 3rd behind two schools (tOSU, PSU) in their division that both happened to be on probation.

To his credit, the Big Dufus parlayed that good fortune into the Arkansas job.

First off, been a lurker for a while and enjoy your posts, especially bball wise. You do a great job of projecting the tourney field. Secondly, for someone that tries to come across as objective, you sure do have a tough time with the Badgers. Explain to me how 2010 was an instance of "being in the right place at the right time?" MSU benefited from not having to play OSU that year and rules dictated that the highest BCS ranking was the tie breaker for three teams that didn't all play each other. The vast, vast majority of voters also agreed that MSU was not as good as Wisconsin or OSU. MSU was behind Wisconsin in every poll from week 9 on. Losing 37-6 will do that to a team.

Three facts:
1) Wisconsin and MSU played in the Big Ten opener....a lot changed after that loss for Wisconsin. MSU got trounced by Iowa and then barely beat an absolutely atrocious Purdue team towards the end of the season. Wisconsin, meanwhile, beat the #1 team in the country, and then won @Iowa and @Michigan. Minnesota fans of all people should understand that teams change dramatically over the course of the year; look at the difference between the Gophs now vs the two trouncings you all received at the hands of Iowa and Michigan in the first two conference games this year. You guys weren't even close. Now, I would say, you are probably on par or better than Iowa and significantly closer to Michigan than the earlier beatdown the Gophs received would indicate.

2) Using your logic, or selection methodology, Wisconsin still would have made a BCS bowl over OSU. I know this isn't the debate, just wanted to point out that Wisconsin was BCS bound either way.

3) MSU, once again, showed that they were not on the same level as Wisconsin at the end of the year, losing to Alabama 49-7. Wisconsin, meanwhile, lost to undefeated, #2 in the final polls, TCU, by two points. After bowl season, Wisconsin ranked #7 and MSU #14.

Very few people, outside of MSU fans and Wisconsin haters, think MSU was a better team or deserved the Rose Bowl over Wisconsin. Last year we did not deserve to be in the BIG Championship game. However, the best the Legends division had to offer was Nebraska and we all know how that turned out. Wisconsin backed in the CC game, but earned the Rose Bowl and proved they belonged on the field against Stanford.

 

[SelectionSunday]

First off, been a lurker for a while and enjoy your posts, especially bball wise. You do a great job of projecting the tourney field. Secondly, for someone that tries to come across as objective, you sure do have a tough time with the Badgers. Explain to me how 2010 was an instance of "being in the right place at the right time?" MSU benefited from not having to play OSU that year and rules dictated that the highest BCS ranking was the tie breaker for a three teams that didn't all play each other. The vast, vast majority of voters also agreed that MSU was not as good as Wisconsin or OSU. MSU was behind Wisconsin in every poll from week 9 on. Losing 37-6 will do that to a team.

Three facts:
1) Wisconsin and MSU played in the Big Ten opener....a lot changed after that loss for Wisconsin. MSU got trounced by Iowa and then barely beat an absolutely atrocious Purdue team towards the end of the season. Wisconsin, meanwhile, beat the #1 team in the country, and then won @Iowa and @Michigan. Minnesota fans of all people should understand that teams change dramatically over the course of the year; look at the difference between the Gophs now vs the two trouncings you all received at the hands of Iowa and Michigan in the first two conference games this year. You guys weren't even close. Now, I would say, you are probably on par or better than Iowa and significantly closer to Michigan than the earlier beatdown the Gophs received would indicate.

2) Using your logic, or selection methodology, Wisconsin still would have made a BCS bowl over OSU. I know this isn't the debate, just wanted to point out that Wisconsin was BCS bound either way.

3) MSU, once again, showed that they were not on the same level as Wisconsin at the end of the year, losing to Alabama 49-7. Wisconsin, meanwhile, lost to undefeated, #2 in the final polls, TCU, by two points. After bowl season, Wisconsin ranked #7 and MSU #14.

Very few people, outside of MSU fans and Wisconsin haters, think MSU was a better team or deserved the Rose Bowl over Wisconsin. Last year we did not deserve to be in the BIG Championship game. However, the best the Legends division had to offer was Nebraska and we all know how that turned out. Wisconsin backed in the CC game, but earned the Rose Bowl and proved they belonged on the field against Stanford.

Reasonable minds can disagree, of which we do plenty here. I do agree with your #2. Wisconsin and Michigan State should have been the Big Ten's two BCS representatives. Ohio State should have been the odd man out.

I suspect your arguments would be quite different if the tables were turned, had the Badgers had the edge in a three-way head-to-head tiebreaker, yet first got snubbed by the tiebreaker (their own conference) & then by the BCS.

 

[ToddisGahd]

Reasonable minds can disagree, of which we do plenty here. I do agree with your #2. Wisconsin and Michigan State should have been the Big Ten's two BCS representatives. Ohio State should have been the odd man out.

I suspect your arguments would be quite different if the tables were turned, had the Badgers had the edge in a three-way head-to-head tiebreaker, yet first got snubbed by the tiebreaker (their own conference) & then by the BCS.

I would be irate for sure, and I do understand your points. I'm still bitter about 2006, when the Badgers went 12-1 and didn't get a BCS bid, and that one wasn't even debatable. OSU was undefeated and we lost to Michigan. We didn't deserve it over those two, but I still think we were BCS worthy. Stupid two team rule.

Regardless, I'm glad we only have one more year of this nonsense. I don't anticipate the Badgers having a chance at making the playoff more than once or twice, maybe three times a decade, but at least there won't be anymore debate about whether or not Wisconsin deserves it if they do. Winning the Big Ten while winning our upcoming noncons (LSU and Bama the next 4 years) would leave no room for doubt. A guy can dream.

 

[killme]

...I am not going to get into another drawn out battle with you over this kind of crap

We have wasted too much board space in other threads on that already.

Look at the conference rushing stats...

I just think people are getting ahead of themselves putting this squad in the championship picture at all.

Sigh. If you don't want to debate viewpoints, then don't express them. Um, we're "wasting space" here on a forum in doing so? Now that's funny.

I've played with stats since I was a little boy. I love stats. I learned how to manipulate them, also. MSU leads B1G in rushing defense. Four of the five B1G teams they played are the worst four rushing teams in the B1G. Sparty has not played Ohio, Wisc or Neb, which are 3 of the top 4 rushing teams in B1G games. Mich played a horrible game offensively and rushed for epic, all-time record low yardage. So, I hypothesize MSU's defense is statistically over-rated. Mind you, I know their D is good, but I think they will give up some rushing yards to the likes of Wisc, Neb AND THE GOPHERS. Is the view of the Gopher running game not skewed by the Iowa aberration? Many think we would have much more offensive success in a rematch.

...but its not like we are knocking off top 25 teams in the country...

Wasn't Nebraska ranked?