Eden Prairie Coach

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I'm a white dude. There are things I don't understand and really can't understand because of that. But, for my own behavior, I am crystal clear to not ever use racial or other slurs (nor do I want to). However, if others do it within their own culture, who am I to say they shouldn't?

But the subtle point I was trying to make a few posts ago is that there is a real difference in how white coaches and black coaches are able to communicate/connect with their black players. That's probably always been true, though, and maybe this incident is just a reminder that I'm a white dude and clueless.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Some of this is true, but there has also been a demographic change in Eden Prairie that always drastically impacts voting. It's the reason why Texas WILL go blue in the next few years.

White people now make up about 70% of Eden Prairie, they made up 90% in 2020.

If white people were 60/40 Republican and minorities were 80/20 Democrat, the area has shifted left with the demographics. The percentages I'm using are just a hypothetical to show how it's not usually the people's minds that change it's usually the people, themselves, who have changed. I'm also making no argument whether this is good or bad, some people celebrate that Texas is going blue and some people find it horrifying, I'm merely pointing out that drastic demographic shifts have a much larger impact on voting than people changing their minds (for better or worse depending on how you see it).

Total Population: 60,000
White Votes: 42,000
  • 25,200 GOP
  • 17,000 Dems
Minority Votes: 18,000
  • 14,000 Dems
  • 3,600 GOP
Total Vote:
  • 28,800 GOP
  • 31,000 Dems
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That makes sense.

I will say also that Eden Prairie went for Obama twice. And both Clintons too. Splitting tickets between moderate Congressman Jim Ramstadt and a Democrat president.

Eden Prairie is also interesting in that the city leaders decades ago intentionally designed and proclaimed that Eden Prairie will be and is a mixed income city. It has a significant mix of different income housings.

One reason I live here is I think Eden Prairie has done a good job of being a good city. I haven't experienced or seen everything but there's a strong sense of doing right here and zero racism.

People here tend to be professionals.

The young people coming out of Eden Prairie High School I would say are probably as zero bigoted as any generation ever and pretty open.

I am proud to have lived here. I for one would be livid if I sensed any racism here.

The Republican Party seems to be a blend of pro-business moderate, some religious types (Eden Prairie has some mega churches), and then tea party. But I have never sensed any racism coming from there.

Eric Paulson was the House Minority leader in St Paul. The Democrats here like Paulson personally and the Paulsons but the knock on Paulson was that he was a party man. Personally probably moderate but will tow the party line straight. When he took Ramstadt's place in Congress and towed the party line with Trump in office, the women were livid and turned hard on Paulson. Now Democrats win comfortably.

I have talked to such women who explained waking up and becoming Democrats.

Northern Minnesota that was always solid working class Democrat turned Republican and the whole Trump jobs Make America Great rhetoric. That was offset by the suburbs across USA flipping from moderate Republican to Democrat in part because the women are so mad.

There is one precinct in Eden Prairie that is a gated community that always, always went Republican. Even when EP went for the Democrat president. This last election that went solid Democrat too. First time I ever saw that.

EP generally has zero tolerance for racism here. I mean it. It's pretty even-minded here.
 

gopherinatl said:
This is the argument from white dudes who badly want to use the n-word and this is how they justify it.
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No, it’s the argument from someone that knows it shouldn’t be acceptable for anyone to use. The scholars supposedly steeped in race and racism seems to agree but don’t come out and say that.
 


Blackhammer said:
Badly want to use it? I don’t know anyone that’s that hateful but I’m sure your opinion is that’s the way us white folk are?
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He must have meant white dudes like Lyndon Johnson.
 


Bfan said:
That makes sense.

I will say also that Eden Prairie went for Obama twice. And both Clintons too. Splitting tickets between moderate Congressman Jim Ramstadt and a Democrat president.

Eden Prairie is also interesting in that the city leaders decades ago intentionally designed and proclaimed that Eden Prairie will be and is a mixed income city. It has a significant mix of different income housings.

One reason I live here is I think Eden Prairie has done a good job of being a good city. I haven't experienced or seen everything but there's a strong sense of doing right here and zero racism.

People here tend to be professionals.

The young people coming out of Eden Prairie High School I would say are probably as zero bigoted as any generation ever and pretty open.

I am proud to have lived here. I for one would be livid if I sensed any racism here.

The Republican Party seems to be a blend of pro-business moderate, some religious types (Eden Prairie has some mega churches), and then tea party. But I have never sensed any racism coming from there.

Eric Paulson was the House Minority leader in St Paul. The Democrats here like Paulson personally and the Paulsons but the knock on Paulson was that he was a party man. Personally probably moderate but will tow the party line straight. When he took Ramstadt's place in Congress and towed the party line with Trump in office, the women were livid and turned hard on Paulson. Now Democrats win comfortably.

I have talked to such women who explained waking up and becoming Democrats.

Northern Minnesota that was always solid working class Democrat turned Republican and the whole Trump jobs Make America Great rhetoric. That was offset by the suburbs across USA flipping from moderate Republican to Democrat in part because the women are so mad.

There is one precinct in Eden Prairie that is a gated community that always, always went Republican. Even when EP went for the Democrat president. This last election that went solid Democrat too. First time I ever saw that.

EP generally has zero tolerance for racism here. I mean it. It's pretty even-minded here.
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Off topic but just needed to attach this.

Republican Erik Paulsen won by a landslide in 2016.

Then he lost in a landslide in 2018 because so many professional women in Eden Prairie (and others) were livid at Trump's comments about women turned hard.

It really was a sudden switch.

1675045811116.png


Also, I think the cultural war arguments on all sides are legit to discuss in our nation. Like Kendall Qualls being one of them. Being anti-woke, anti-BLM doesn't mean you are a bigot (though it could be). It could be some strong cultural disagreements about what is causing some specific problems in our society and what would truly fix them from a values/families/cultural perspective as articulated by Kendall Qualls.
 

Bfan said:
Off topic but just needed to attach this.

Republican Erik Paulsen won by a landslide in 2016.

Then he lost in a landslide in 2018 because so many professional women in Eden Prairie (and others) were livid at Trump's comments about women turned hard.

It really was a sudden switch.

View attachment 23529


Also, I think the cultural war arguments on all sides are legit to discuss in our nation. Like Kendall Qualls being one of them. Being anti-woke, anti-BLM doesn't mean you are a bigot (though it could be). It could be some strong cultural disagreements about what is causing some specific problems in our society and what would truly fix them from a values/families/cultural perspective as articulated by Kendall Qualls.
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Kiss the ring of Trump lose the 3rd. Came up a Ramstad Republican in the 3rd, the choice has never been easier. Paulsen's orange signs and unassuming style worked until he kissed the ring.
 
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Context does matter. It was said in an educational context. This coach is not just an X and O guy, but uses athletics to teach life lessons. Maybe he shouldn't have read the n word in the social media post, but for the school district to take 7 weeks to decide what to do is ridiculous.

As far as the North St. Paul players not wanting to play EP what a cop out. You have a group of 15,16 and 17 year olds who are looking for a little attention. Looking at their record it is obvious that their play does not give them that recognition. Leadership takes courage and NSP admin and coaches are showing a lack courage. If the players refuse to play NSP should forfeit.
 

GrampaGopher said:
Context does matter. It was said in an educational context. This coach is not just an X and O guy, but uses athletics to teach life lessons. Maybe he shouldn't have read the n word in the social media post, but for the school district to take 7 weeks to decide what to do is ridiculous.

As far as the North St. Paul players not wanting to play EP what a cop out. You have a group of 15,16 and 17 year olds who are looking for a little attention. Looking at their record it is obvious that their play does not give them that recognition. Leadership takes courage and NSP admin and coaches are showing a lack courage. If the players refuse to play NSP should forfeit.
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I just love the logic here, "maybe" the coach shouldn't have read the n word but the NSP players are looking for "attention". As someone who took a Flom class at Gustavus and can vouch for him being a great guy, he was wrong and admitted as much. If it weren't for Flom's actions this never would have been an issue but I do agree with the reinstatement.
 

goldengophers said:
I just love the logic here, "maybe" the coach shouldn't have read the n word but the NSP players are looking for "attention". As someone who took a Flom class at Gustavus and can vouch for him being a great guy, he was wrong and admitted as much. If it weren't for Flom's actions this never would have been an issue but I do agree with the reinstatement.
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I don’t see how this is so hard to understand. Even within the lesson, he used the actual word he’s telling the players not to use. On top of it, he is talking about the repercussions the coach who tweeted faced then makes the mistake he is telling his players not to make. He surely had to expect some form of consequences for that with multiple black players & 2 black coaches on staff. He should have consulted with them before even approaching this topic.
 

GopherPlaya said:
I don’t see how this is so hard to understand. Even within the lesson, he used the actual word he’s telling the players not to use. On top of it, he is talking about the repercussions the coach who tweeted faced then makes the mistake he is telling his players not to make. He surely had to expect some form of consequences for that with multiple black players & 2 black coaches on staff. He should have consulted with them before even approaching this topic.
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Put it in a deck and redact after the N if it's that hard, he was wrong and admitted it. Flom didn't have to say it to make the point.
 



Is someone cataloging what race can say specific words? Asking for a friend
 

goldengophers said:
I just love the logic here, "maybe" the coach shouldn't have read the n word but the NSP players are looking for "attention". As someone who took a Flom class at Gustavus and can vouch for him being a great guy, he was wrong and admitted as much. If it weren't for Flom's actions this never would have been an issue but I do agree with the reinstatement.
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Well said. The offender admitted fault and apologized. He took his consequence and is being reinstated to prove he won’t do it again. While I’m a Flom supporter as a person, he messed up and owned it. Glad he gets a chance to rectify it. It’s just not that complicated/hard to not say the word or have the need to say it.
 



Gopherfan84 said:
Well said. The offender admitted fault and apologized. He took his consequence and is being reinstated to prove he won’t do it again. While I’m a Flom supporter as a person, he messed up and owned it. Glad he gets a chance to rectify it. It’s just not that complicated/hard to not say the word or have the need to say it.
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He bent the knee because he had to and I don't blame him for that. That doesn't make it right that he had to bend the knee.

It's actually the most complicated word.

If white people say it, they need to bend the knee. It's okay for Puerto Ricans as long as they act a certain way. This is also true for other latinos. This is also true for Asians (depending upon the asian). It's also okay for anyone with any drop of African blood (regardless of whether or not that blood came from the descendant of a former slave). Oddly enough, it can also be okay for some white people at some times. If a white woman is dating a black guy, she usually gets a pass on this. Additionally, it's okay to say it in a move with a script, but it is not okay to say it if it's in a song or you are quoting someone (this one has actually evolved).

Personally, I don't say the word, but when that word is acceptable is extremely complicated. The most complicated word we have.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Is someone cataloging what race can say specific words? Asking for a friend
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What about Eminem?

Also, watch You People on Netflix. It’s the new comedy with Jonah Hill and Eddie Murphy, along with many more semi-stars. They say the word a ton. And it isn’t racial. It is in scenes with standard dialogue between two black people…how are young kids supposed to automatically understand the backstory of that word, yet they see it said all the time in regular conversation on mega mainstream movies? Seems like we have a double standard on the word…and that we are setting future generations up to be cancelled…yet we continue to rap about it and put it in regular movie scenes as if it’s not a bad word.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
He bent the knee because he had to and I don't blame him for that. That doesn't make it right that he had to bend the knee.

It's actually the most complicated word.

If white people say it, they need to bend the knee. It's okay for Puerto Ricans as long as they act a certain way. This is also true for other latinos. This is also true for Asians (depending upon the asian). It's also okay for anyone with any drop of African blood (regardless of whether or not that blood came from the descendant of a former slave). Oddly enough, it can also be okay for some white people at some times. If a white woman is dating a black guy, she usually gets a pass on this. Additionally, it's okay to say it in a move with a script, but it is not okay to say it if it's in a song or you are quoting someone (this one has actually evolved).

Personally, I don't say the word, but when that word is acceptable is extremely complicated. The most complicated word we have.
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If you don't say the word, you shouldn't worry about who can say it. So many people are focused on the wrong thing. Don't put yourself in that situation, period. Flom could have gotten that point across without saying the word. To act like he is being unfairly persecuted doesn't make sense. He messed up, faced the consequences, and won't make the same mistake again. No reason to make this any more complicated than that.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
What about Eminem?

Also, watch You People on Netflix. It’s the new comedy with Jonah Hill and Eddie Murphy, along with many more semi-stars. They say the word a ton. And it isn’t racial. It is in scenes with standard dialogue between two black people…how are young kids supposed to automatically understand the backstory of that word, yet they see it said all the time in regular conversation on mega mainstream movies? Seems like we have a double standard on the word…and that we are setting future generations up to be cancelled.
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Please explain to me when white people have been okay to use the word. There are plenty of double standards across the board. Let's not act like this is the only one. I don't see the point of a white person using the word knowing the possible consequences.
 

GopherPlaya said:
Please explain to me when white people have been okay to use the word. There are plenty of double standards across the board. Let's not act like this is the only one. I don't see the point of a white person using the word knowing the possible consequences.
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Didn’t say it was. Just seems a little off that it’s such a lightning rod word, yet it’s such a part of the media (movies, music, television)…which seems to normalize the word
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
He bent the knee because he had to and I don't blame him for that. That doesn't make it right that he had to bend the knee.

It's actually the most complicated word.

If white people say it, they need to bend the knee. It's okay for Puerto Ricans as long as they act a certain way. This is also true for other latinos. This is also true for Asians (depending upon the asian). It's also okay for anyone with any drop of African blood (regardless of whether or not that blood came from the descendant of a former slave). Oddly enough, it can also be okay for some white people at some times. If a white woman is dating a black guy, she usually gets a pass on this. Additionally, it's okay to say it in a move with a script, but it is not okay to say it if it's in a song or you are quoting someone (this one has actually evolved).

Personally, I don't say the word, but when that word is acceptable is extremely complicated. The most complicated word we have.
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We disagree on the complexity. I don’t think I need access to the word (along with plenty of others) period so I find it relatively simple.
I also think Flom is sincerely apologetic. Maybe you know him better than me though.
 

GopherPlaya said:
If you don't say the word, you shouldn't worry about who can say it. So many people are focused on the wrong thing. Don't put yourself in that situation, period. Flom could have gotten that point across without saying the word. To act like he is being unfairly persecuted doesn't make sense. He messed up, faced the consequences, and won't make the same mistake again. No reason to make this any more complicated than that.
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I’m a white dude. I just don’t say it and honestly have no interest or need in saying it. It’s not complicated or hard for me whatsoever to not use it. I’ve worked with Black and Native American youth and it’s not hard to find another word or option when teaching/working with them.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Didn’t say it was. Just seems a little off that it’s such a lightning rod word, yet it’s such a part of the media (movies, music, television)…which seems to normalize the word
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There are a lot of slurs that are used through media, but that doesn't make them okay to use. Also, that word has been used in the media forever. As I said, the word shouldn't be used by anyone, but if the group that the word was always used to offend decides to say it to each other, it isn't our place to tell them what's acceptable in their culture.
 
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Bob_Loblaw said:
That's absolutely not the case at all. It's also the argument by black people who don't say the word. I'm sure you'll brush those folks off too.
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I can't understand why anyone, for any reason, in any situation/context, would want to say the word.

Maybe it's an -er vs. -a thing? Not sure which version the coach used, but even if the latter that was apparently still a sin.


If anything, from reading some of the posts on here, it seems to me that some Blacks may enjoy using the word and want to proliferate its usage among Blacks because it's a "special" thing that they've now concocted, where they get to use it and hold power/leverage over people they hate, in particular white people.


Question: what about modern day (or even, you know, from the 90's) African immigrants? These are people who have skin colors often darker than some American Blacks (descendants of slaves), but who have completely different cultures, sometimes language, and sometimes religion, and whose families never experienced an iota of American Southern slavery.

Are these people allowed to use the N word with impunity?


Seems made up.
 
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Reiterating that I don't find it difficult at all to not use the word (or other words that I know are slurs). But, if I were to put a finger on why it's still a little confounding, maybe it's that in my predominantly white-bread world, I can't think of a single term/phrase that we say only amongst other WASPs that would offend me if uttered by someone from a different community. Same with the controversy of the art teacher at Hamline. I just don't know what it's like to be a person in another cultural group, and therefore shouldn't discount or invalidate their being offended just because it's not how I would react.
 


Gophers_4life said:
I can't understand why anyone, for any reason, in any situation/context, would want to say the word.

Maybe it's an -er vs. -a thing? Not sure which version the coach used, but even if the latter that was apparently still a sin.


If anything, from reading some of the posts on here, it seems to me that some Blacks may enjoy using the word and want to proliferate its usage among Blacks because it's a "special" thing that they've now concocted, where they get to use it and hold power/leverage over people they hate, in particular white people.


Question: what about modern day (or even, you know, from the 90's) African immigrants? These are people who have skin colors often darker than some American Blacks (descendants of slaves), but who have completely different cultures, sometimes language, and sometimes religion, and whose families never experienced an iota of American Southern slavery.

Are these people allowed to use the N word with impunity?


Seems made up.
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I didn't make up the rules, I'm just saying what the rules are.
 

No whites want to say the word.

It is perfectly legitimate to question why anyone should get to say it, if it's so bad for whites to say it.


Completely false argument to pretend that only those who want to say that will present those challenges, and is nothing more than a fake way to dismiss the challenge.
 

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