DT Noah Shannon committed to Gophers

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My old man used to say "a man who isn't worth his word, isn't worth anything." So it sounds like he's not the type of "man" we'd want anyways.

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Men of their word. Like coaches? I would wager every coach in the country would love to be a power 5 head coach, and preferably a helmet school coach. Like recruits, they'll probably swear loyalty to their current school until a better opportunity or fit comes along. I bet even PJ has sworn he was committed to WMU at one time...

Seriously, these kids can go wherever they please for whatever reason they choose. Plenty of time to find guys that want to be here. It's just ridiculous to get too upset about this stuff. Get upset if the defense falls apart, we lose to Iowa, get destroyed by Wisconsin, or choke up a loss to Purdue.
 

FredCoxRocks said:
From Iowa's Black Shart-Soiled Pants fan page, or whatever it's called:

"Shannon’s name may sound familiar as he’s a name that’s been on the Hawkeye radar for some time as a top target on the defensive line. However, Shannon made an unofficial to Minnesota and PJ Fleck back in early May. As he’s known to do, Fleck put on the high pressure pitch and Shannon made his verbal commitment to Minnesota before leaving Minneapolis.

It seems as though those tactics were a bit of a short term gain, long term loss for the Golden Gophers as Shannon decommitted less than three weeks later on May 28th. At that time, he re-opened his commitment, but had a top two of Iowa and Minnesota. After not attending the Hawkeyes’ recent recruiting tailgater, the conventional wisdom was he may be leaning back to Minnesota. Today, he proved the conventional wisdom wrong."

Wether he puts on the pressure or not, I get some enjoyment from the thought of PJ Fleck irritating anyone from Iowa.
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See, I've been saying maybe Fleck just pushes the hard sell on visits and is hard to say no to in person, and got savaged by Fleckies for it. HOWEVER, I can talk about PJ and his defects, because I'm a gopher fan. We don't want no stinkin Iowa writers pointing out faults! Although this isn't the first time the boys to our south seem to worry and wring their hands about PJ. The Ferrentz kid took a shot a couple months ago too.


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Lordshawesome said:
My old man used to say "a man who isn't worth his word, isn't worth anything." So it sounds like he's not the type of "man" we'd want anyways.

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Huh?


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dlw4gophers said:
There should not be any hate for this change of mind. Before it is national signing, my guess is we will flip a player or two from other teams. That's the nature of the beast
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Correct
 


JTsolo612 said:
See, I've been saying maybe Fleck just pushes the hard sell on visits and is hard to say no to in person, and got savaged by Fleckies for it. HOWEVER, I can talk about PJ and his defects, because I'm a gopher fan. We don't want no stinkin Iowa writers pointing out faults! Although this isn't the first time the boys to our south seem to worry and wring their hands about PJ. The Ferrentz kid took a shot a couple months ago too.


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I contend it is possible that coaches respect the Fleck staff's ability to find talent so when we sign someone, they take a hard look at them.
 

JTsolo612 said:
See, I've been saying maybe Fleck just pushes the hard sell on visits and is hard to say no to in person, and got savaged by Fleckies for it. HOWEVER, I can talk about PJ and his defects, because I'm a gopher fan. We don't want no stinkin Iowa writers pointing out faults! Although this isn't the first time the boys to our south seem to worry and wring their hands about PJ. The Ferrentz kid took a shot a couple months ago too.


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PJ Fleck "moonwalked" hard for Noah Shannon, but was "out moonwalked" by Ferentz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o42C6ajjqWg
 


Oregon Gopher said:
Huh?


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What's not to get about it? He may well be a we'll intentioned, good person. But our society is more & more becoming such, that integrity is being devalued. There was a time when a handshake was as good as a contract to people of integrity. Now it's becoming a culture of instant gratification & "what have you done for me lately"? I'm not saying the coaches are any better. It was more of a comment on people who's word means nothing, than a comment about him personally. He's simply a manifestation of a bigger problem. If you look another person square in the eyes, shake their hand & give them your word, it's a done deal and that's how it should be. Nobody put a gun to his head & made him lie to Fleck. He gave him his word & his word wasn't worth the toilet paper he used on his visit. So this "Fleck comes on strong" crap holds no water. Boo hoo, a nice man really wants to mentor & coach you. Poor baby. It's a university visit, not a tour in Vietnam. They roll out the red carpet for you & only ask you to be honest with them. Being honest and forthcoming are virtues. Your word should be your bond. If by 17 you don't know that, that says something about you. There is an ocean of people guilty of this(and far worse). So to say he's not unwittingly being influenced by the culture I referred to, would be unfair. But integrity is important, no matter who it is. I'm simply saying we shouldn't loose sight of that.

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Lordshawesome said:
My old man used to say "a man who isn't worth his word, isn't worth anything." So it sounds like he's not the type of "man" we'd want anyways.

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Does this still apply when we get a player who decommitted elsewhere and ends up here?
 


Halsey Hall said:
I contend it is possible that coaches respect the Fleck staff's ability to find talent so when we sign someone, they take a hard look at them.
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I doubt that other schools spend any time at all looking at players who have signed here.
 





Lordshawesome said:
What's not to get about it? He may well be a we'll intentioned, good person. But our society is more & more becoming such, that integrity is being devalued. There was a time when a handshake was as good as a contract to people of integrity. Now it's becoming a culture of instant gratification & "what have you done for me lately"? I'm not saying the coaches are any better. It was more of a comment on people who's word means nothing, than a comment about him personally. He's simply a manifestation of a bigger problem. If you look another person square in the eyes, shake their hand & give them your word, it's a done deal and that's how it should be. Nobody put a gun to his head & made him lie to Fleck. He gave him his word & his word wasn't worth the toilet paper he used on his visit. So this "Fleck comes on strong" crap holds no water. Boo hoo, a nice man really wants to mentor & coach you. Poor baby. It's a university visit, not a tour in Vietnam. They roll out the red carpet for you & only ask you to be honest with them. Being honest and forthcoming are virtues. Your word should be your bond. If by 17 you don't know that, that says something about you. There is an ocean of people guilty of this(and far worse). So to say he's not unwittingly being influenced by the culture I referred to, would be unfair. But integrity is important, no matter who it is. I'm simply saying we shouldn't loose sight of that.

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Wow. A kid cant change his mind?

Maybe he felt pressured and coerced even?

I get it, your word should be your bond. But things happen and as many kids have decommitted here already there's obviously something going on.
 


Folks getting upset that a kid didn't come to their school to entertain them need to get some perspective.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Folks getting upset that a kid didn't come to their school to entertain them need to get some perspective.
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I'm not upset he didn't come here. It's his prerogative. I was making a commentary on how a man's word should mean something. But obviously some of you just want to find a reason to be snarky and argumentative or just missed the point completely. Who or who doesn't commit to us has no bearing on the way I feel about the importance of people being true to their word. If you don't get that, feel free to continue the snark. I'm a die-hard Gophers fan, always will be. But integrity will always be more important than football to me.

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Lordshawesome said:
I'm not upset he didn't come here. It's his prerogative. I was making a commentary on how a man's word should mean something. But obviously some of you just want to find a reason to be snarky and argumentative or just missed the point completely. Who or who doesn't commit to us has no bearing on the way I feel about the importance of people being true to their word. If you don't get that, feel free to continue the snark. I'm a die-hard Gophers fan, always will be. But integrity will always be more important than football to me.

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I would say the key phrase is "a man's word should mean something."

we are not talking about a man. we are talking about a 17-year-old kid. Remember being a kid - hormones - uncertainty - not knowing what was going on on a daily basis? Is it that hard to understand that a kid - facing probably the most important decision he's made in his young life - might have second thoughts?

Verbal commitments - in a legal sense - mean nothing. once the recruit signs a letter of intent, that means something. there's no LOI involved here - just a kid who changed his mind. If a top Iowa Recruit de-committed from IA and flipped to MN, would you say the Gophers don't want him because he didn't honor a commitment? I think not. 17 is not 21. Not a legal adult. Held to a different standard.
 

Lordshawesome said:
What's not to get about it? He may well be a we'll intentioned, good person. But our society is more & more becoming such, that integrity is being devalued. There was a time when a handshake was as good as a contract to people of integrity. Now it's becoming a culture of instant gratification & "what have you done for me lately"? I'm not saying the coaches are any better. It was more of a comment on people who's word means nothing, than a comment about him personally. He's simply a manifestation of a bigger problem. If you look another person square in the eyes, shake their hand & give them your word, it's a done deal and that's how it should be. Nobody put a gun to his head & made him lie to Fleck. He gave him his word & his word wasn't worth the toilet paper he used on his visit. So this "Fleck comes on strong" crap holds no water. Boo hoo, a nice man really wants to mentor & coach you. Poor baby. It's a university visit, not a tour in Vietnam. They roll out the red carpet for you & only ask you to be honest with them. Being honest and forthcoming are virtues. Your word should be your bond. If by 17 you don't know that, that says something about you. There is an ocean of people guilty of this(and far worse). So to say he's not unwittingly being influenced by the culture I referred to, would be unfair. But integrity is important, no matter who it is. I'm simply saying we shouldn't loose sight of that.

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Exactly, EXACTLY why I have NO time for those WMU recruits that Fleck flipped! How many were there?!
 

Wanting someone to play football for you has nothing to do with commenting on the decline in value of ones word. I already said it was his prerogative. It's a commentary on a greater problem. If the only thing that can garner trust between two people is a legal document, it's a sad world we're living in. Also, if by 17, you don't know the importance of honesty, your parents didn't do a very good job. My 10 year old knows not to lie. Honesty is important and if you don't get that, I don't know how to help you understand what I'm saying.

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Lordshawesome said:
Wanting someone to play football for you has nothing to do with commenting on the decline in value of ones word. I already said it was his prerogative. It's a commentary on a greater problem. If the only thing that can garner trust between two people is a legal document, it's a sad world we're living in. Also, if by 17, you don't know the importance of honesty, your parents didn't do a very good job. My 10 year old knows not to lie. Honesty is important and if you don't get that, I don't know how to help you understand what I'm saying.

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I understand completely what you're saying and I agree our society appears to be declining in some ways. But on the other hand adults have been saying that about the younger generation for centuries. You can go back into the 17 and 1800s and find articles saying things similarly

Bottom line is yes we all wish people would keep their word on things they commit to. But in the real world it just simply is not realistic.

I think the focus should go less on these kids and more on to the tactics taken in order to persuade them to commit.

That should be the focus. Why would either party want to pressure or be pressured into committing when you're not fully....errr....committed?

It just seems that Fleck comes off too much as a high pressure used car salesman at times. It's not a good look.
 

karmakiller said:
I understand completely what you're saying and I agree our society appears to be declining in some ways. But on the other hand adults have been saying that about the younger generation for centuries. You can go back into the 17 and 1800s and find articles saying things similarly

Bottom line is yes we all wish people would keep their word on things they commit to. But in the real world it just simply is not realistic.

I think the focus should go less on these kids and more on to the tactics taken in order to persuade them to commit.

That should be the focus. Why would either party want to pressure or be pressured into committing when you're not fully....errr....committed?

It just seems that Fleck comes off too much as a high pressure used car salesman at times. It's not a good look.
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You in the room when they commit or something?
 

karmakiller said:
I understand completely what you're saying and I agree our society appears to be declining in some ways. But on the other hand adults have been saying that about the younger generation for centuries. You can go back into the 17 and 1800s and find articles saying things similarly

Bottom line is yes we all wish people would keep their word on things they commit to. But in the real world it just simply is not realistic.

I think the focus should go less on these kids and more on to the tactics taken in order to persuade them to commit.

That should be the focus. Why would either party want to pressure or be pressured into committing when you're not fully....errr....committed?

It just seems that Fleck comes off too much as a high pressure used car salesman at times. It's not a good look.
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There is a lot of complexity to the issue. A kid visits and decides to commit on the spot. How much of that is hard selling and how much is based upon making an impulsive decision? I don't think we should relax the value of keeping your promise, the emphasis should be on not making promises that you do not know if you can keep! Also, most of these "kids" are old enough to go off to war and make life and death decisions, so don't treat them like they are 6 year olds! Ultimately, the recruit has to do what is best for him, but we shouldn't set the standards so low. They need to learn that their word has true meaning and it should not be given so loosely without the commitment that backs it up.


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A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Folks getting upset that a kid didn't come to their school to entertain them need to get some perspective.
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I might argue that decommitting has entertained me more on here then these players ever could have on the field.


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Lordshawesome said:
My old man used to say "a man who isn't worth his word, isn't worth anything." So it sounds like he's not the type of "man" we'd want anyways.

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Does the same logic apply to highschool kids?
 

Where do you draw the line on the "their just kids" excuse?
For me, the ones that change their mind - I get. The ones that lie about taking other visits and cross the line to being dishonest? I'm with Lordshawesome - no interest. Even at 18 that says something about who you are, IMO.
I also feel that way for the ones that need all the attention surrounding their decision, etc. (think Daniels Twins), but that is a whole other conversation.


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Spoofin said:
I might argue that decommitting has entertained me more on here then these players ever could have on the field.


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A sure sign that you're doing it wrong.


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