Doogie: Tubby's Ski-U-Blah season accepted

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The overall article is fair, but Doogie's new favorite stat is the 'Tubby's Big 10 record is 26-40 not counting Iowa.' He's been citing it over and over. Give it a rest. He's also 32-32 not counting Michigan State. Neither is relavent. The real record, 32-40 is bad enough and conveys the issue. No need to artifically make it worse my cherry-picking which wins 'don't count' to prove your point, Doogie.
 

Yeah, you can't fire Smith, but yes, next year is important. I give any coach a year or two of struggles honestly, cause all the mess that has happened would weaken any coach's win totals. Let him try to get this thing back on track. If things go well, I'd guess within two years we'll be in the top 5 of the BT. If more of the last two years occurs as far as lost players and just general issues, then we'll know a major change is needed, and I'm not even necessarily talking about the coach. It's not like Gopher hoops turmoil started with Tubby, this has been an issue for a while. Need to get that fixed before this program can really rise. You just hope Tubby is a good enough coach to overcome it. So far, it's been mixed results.
 

howeda7 said:
The overall article is fair, but Doogie's new favorite state is the '26-40 not counting Iowa.' He's been citing it over and over. Give it a rest. Hee's also 32-32 not counting Michigan State. Neither is relavent. The real record, 32-40 is bad enough and conveys the issue. No need to artifically make it worse my cherry-picking which wins 'don't count' to prove your point, Doogie.
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agreed, doogie clearly has an agenda to push. he's been tweeting this meaningless stat too. doogie, what's the point of your stat and why are you pushing it so hard? is Iowa not in the big ten? Why take a negative angle when you could have made tubby's record .500 with the michigan state games not counting. feels like you are trying to create the news rather than report it. bush league for sure.
 

Agreed that Doogie was pretty fair here. Also agree that Doogie shouldn't get to pick & choose which wins count and which ones don't. If the Iowa wins don't count, does that mean the Louisville, Wisconsin (multiple), Butler, Michigan State, Purdue (multiple), West Virginia & North Carolina wins -- wins we rarely got under the previous regime, especially away from Williams Arena -- count for more? Bottom line, your record is what your record says it is.

All in all, Doogie hit on some key points and unlike most of the stuff I've read or listened to -- most notably Souhan's venomous garbage (his insistence that Tubby "ran off Joseph") -- Doogie at least acknowledges the possibility that this season was a hiccup. Let's hope that's the case.
 


Well if you take away this one month stretch of basketball from his 4 year record, then it's 31-31 lol
 

SelectionSunday said:
Agreed that Doogie was pretty fair here. Also agree that Doogie shouldn't get to pick & choose which wins count and which ones don't. If the Iowa wins don't count, does that mean the Louisville, Wisconsin (multiple), Butler, Michigan State, Purdue (multiple), West Virginia & North Carolina wins count for more? Bottom line, your record is what your record says it is.
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Don't forget the win over the Evan Turner-less Buckeyes last year...or at least that's what Clark Kellogg tells me.
 


Monty519 said:
Yeah, you can't fire Smith, but yes, next year is important. I give any coach a year or two of struggles honestly, cause all the mess that has happened would weaken any coach's win totals. Let him try to get this thing back on track. If things go well, I'd guess within two years we'll be in the top 5 of the BT. If more of the last two years occurs as far as lost players and just general issues, then we'll know a major change is needed, and I'm not even necessarily talking about the coach. It's not like Gopher hoops turmoil started with Tubby, this has been an issue for a while. Need to get that fixed before this program can really rise. You just hope Tubby is a good enough coach to overcome it. So far, it's been mixed results.
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I think we should be expecting top 5 next year. I don't think asking for top five once in five years is too much from a coach of his level and pay. Personally, I think he'll have us in the top five next year. Like others here I disagree with the Iowa exception- 32 and 40 is the record. It is what it is. The first year which was 8-10 was a record which we were ecstatic about at the time due to what Tubby had to work with. In my view that was his best coaching job. I think he's had one really good year, two average ones and one clinker. He's due for a great one next year and it should be an expectation.
 




Don't forget the win over the Evan Turner-less Buckeyes last year...or at least that's what Clark Kellogg tells me.
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You mean the one where the unnamed player came within a few assists and rebounds from putting up a triple double against us? Lol.

I think Doogie's article is reasonable.

most notably Souhan's venomous garbage (his insistence that Tubby "ran off Joseph")
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Thank God for spring training so we don't have to read or listen to that schmuck talk about basketball anymore.
 

SS: ...Doogie at least acknowledges the possibility that this season was a hiccup. Let's hope that's the case.

I think it was a bad case of the hiccups, as happened this year at Michigan State.

SS, the hiccup happened early in the season for North Carolina, they recovered. We can too.

GO GOPHERS!!!
 

What's so bad about kicking the crap out of Iowa? They are a rival regardless of their program strength.
 



Why do media types constantly ignore BTT records? Are those games not against Big Ten teams?
 


I also think Doogie's article is reasonably fair. Honestly, after the season we had, it's pretty hard to deflect any criticism thrown at Tubby.

Lord knows I'm certainly no expect in recruiting, but, who from this list, aside from Joseph, was significant this year, that would have realistically come to Minnesota?

It's just time to realize that Smith has had a really bad year. Not only did he miss out on top-flight recruit Cory Joseph (Texas), but he also swung-and-missed on Trevor Releford (Alabama), Ricky Kreklow (Missouri), and Alex Kirk (New Mexico).
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Is swung and missed a fair statement? Or an opinion?

Kreklow didn't do anything at Mizzou.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/players/97437

Releford would have been in a situation knowing he would have been backing up Nolen, then Joseph, then maybe Allen.

Alex Kirk? No idea. Still playing behind a few big guys for a couple of years. Nice offer list though. Nothing from the midwest.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/stanford/basketball/recruiting/player-Alex-Kirk-76799
 

Barn Burner, yes, I know who excuses are for. ... losers. And yes, I'm the one who 4-5 years ago on this board said and still believes that "Excuses are for losers". I'm flattered that something I posted years ago has made such an impact on you and that you can recite it at a moment's notice. Thank you.

At least now when you bring up the "We know who excuses are for. ..." line every so often, folks here other than me will know what the heck you're talking about.
 

Gophers Left W On Table Both Years

In 2010, Gophers left 4 or 5 W on the table. It should have been 25+ W season.

In 2011, maybe 3 or 4 W left on table. Should have been 20+ W season (so far).

With talent available after injuries, transfers, academics, etc.
 

Blizzard said:
I also think Doogie's article is reasonably fair. Honestly, after the season we had, it's pretty hard to deflect any criticism thrown at Tubby.

Lord knows I'm certainly no expect in recruiting, but, who from this list, aside from Joseph, was significant this year, that would have realistically come to Minnesota?

Is swung and missed a fair statement? Or an opinion?

Kreklow didn't do anything at Mizzou.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/players/97437

Releford would have been in a situation knowing he would have been backing up Nolen, then Joseph, then maybe Allen.

Alex Kirk? No idea. Still playing behind a few big guys for a couple of years. Nice offer list though. Nothing from the midwest.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/stanford/basketball/recruiting/player-Alex-Kirk-76799
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Most coaches "swing and mess" on 4 or 5 recruits for every one they sign.

For example, Rick Pitino "swung and missed" on every single one of his first and second choice recruits in 1996 and 97. He signed (5) players who were third choice, at least, those 2 years.
 


howeda7 said:
The overall article is fair, but Doogie's new favorite stat is the 'Tubby's Big 10 record is 26-40 not counting Iowa.' He's been citing it over and over. Give it a rest. He's also 32-32 not counting Michigan State. Neither is relavent. The real record, 32-40 is bad enough and conveys the issue. No need to artifically make it worse my cherry-picking which wins 'don't count' to prove your point, Doogie.
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Great point.
 

Interesting.

Our wins against Iowa do not count does that mean Purdue can forget about their loss to Iowa?
 

SelectionSunday said:
Agreed that Doogie was pretty fair here. Also agree that Doogie shouldn't get to pick & choose which wins count and which ones don't. If the Iowa wins don't count, does that mean the Louisville, Wisconsin (multiple), Butler, Michigan State, Purdue (multiple), West Virginia & North Carolina wins -- wins we rarely got under the previous regime, especially away from Williams Arena -- count for more? Bottom line, your record is what your record says it is.

All in all, Doogie hit on some key points and unlike most of the stuff I've read or listened to -- most notably Souhan's venomous garbage (his insistence that Tubby "ran off Joseph") -- Doogie at least acknowledges the possibility that this season was a hiccup. Let's hope that's the case.
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I don't think there is anything wrong with saying he "ran him off", he gave him the choice to shape up or leave, and he walked. He needed "running off". He was selfish, he did not follow rules, and Tubby said this year's team was supposed to be "Devoe's team (to lead)" last spring and the kid shows up last summer and again pollutes the team. He had to rehabilitated every time he came back from Canada. I'm just annoyed he waited as long as he did.
 

Looking at the list Alex Kirk was the 12th rated center and Mo Walker was the 13th.

Was that a swing and miss as well? Lol, and Doogie does remember that Mo blew out his knee right? Not that shouldn't excuse him from contributing this season of course.

I think you should have left that one out Doogie. :p
 

corcoran1 said:
I don't think there is anything wrong with saying he "ran him off", he gave him the choice to shape up or leave, and he walked. He needed "running off".
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That's fair. My point is, Souhan's clear implication every time he brings this up is that Tubby somehow committed a grave injustice toward Devoe, that Tubby was somehow more at fault than Devoe in that whole mess. I just don't think that's true, and I don't think it's fair to Tubby. Devoe made his own bed, and he decided to walk away, which was his choice. There are certainly some things I have questioned about Tubby (namely his insistence on subbing 4-5 guys at a time when we have a full roster), but his handling of the Devoe situation is not one of 'em.
 

It sounds like (based on this thread) that it is quite fair to question the recruiting of Devoe, not the handling of hime once he was on the team.
 

FOT - how many more losses should the team of had last year?

My point being that they were an average Big Ten team. They lost games they should have won and won games they should have lost. This is what average teams do, they struggle to play consistently at their best for a full season.
 

Monty519 said:
Yeah, you can't fire Smith, but yes, next year is important. I give any coach a year or two of struggles honestly, cause all the mess that has happened would weaken any coach's win totals. Let him try to get this thing back on track. If things go well, I'd guess within two years we'll be in the top 5 of the BT. If more of the last two years occurs as far as lost players and just general issues, then we'll know a major change is needed, and I'm not even necessarily talking about the coach. It's not like Gopher hoops turmoil started with Tubby, this has been an issue for a while. Need to get that fixed before this program can really rise. You just hope Tubby is a good enough coach to overcome it. So far, it's been mixed results.
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How dare you post something level headed. This forum is for people with radical ideas.:rolleyes:
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
I have one quibble with the article. Tubby is not HOF coach and nowhere near it (currently).

He's a very good coach (among Top 10-15 active coaches) but that is not necessarily HOF.
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FOT,
Did somebody hijack your keyboard?!
 

howeda7 said:
The overall article is fair, but Doogie's new favorite stat is the 'Tubby's Big 10 record is 26-40 not counting Iowa.' He's been citing it over and over. Give it a rest. He's also 32-32 not counting Michigan State. Neither is relavent. The real record, 32-40 is bad enough and conveys the issue. No need to artifically make it worse my cherry-picking which wins 'don't count' to prove your point, Doogie.
Click to expand...

It is funny that when he bashes Brewster Iowa and Wisconsin count more than the others but when trying to bash a coach who is has more success against them Iowa ceases to count at all.
 

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