Doogie: The "U's" real problem: Average Joel (Maturi)

[theTurning]

If you look at his body of work he has done a good job

 

[howeda7]

Being an AD is about running an entire program. Look at how many programs across the nation fire coaches every year. Is every AD that made a bad hire incompetent. How many on this board are in charge of hiring and firing. Have you not hired someone who blew you away in an interview ...only to find out they blew smoke up your rear. Not every hire is a good one. If you don't have tunnel vision you can see he has done a good job overall.

This is true, but don't act like every AD at every school doesn't have to run a full program. What separates being the AD at Minnesota from being the AD at Miami Ohio or even St. Cloud State is how you handle the big stuff. All the things Maturi has failed at. Repeatedly. Showering him with kudos for doing the basic parts of his job well is silly.

 

[Uffda]

Credit Maturi with Making Good Hire

Joel Maturi being the AD hurts Jerry Kill much more than people bashing Maturi. It would be best if Joel either stepped down or was fired.

I am excited about the new football coach. Maturi picked the right guy in my opinion. Can people accept that Joel Maturi is the AD and he made a good hire of Jerry Kill. You are not AD so it wasn't your choice. Mike Leach was never going to be hired here. Please accept that fact. If Mike Leach was such a great candidate, why haven't any other programs interviewed him? Its easy to pile on people when you don't have to do to their face --- my opinion. Too many seem like they want to cut off their nose to spite their face. ---- I'll show em because they didn't hire my guy mentality.

 

[RodentRampage]

I know, I am with you on that Doogie. I would have preferred Leach over just about everyone. My main point was more that there seems to be a lot of people on here who really liked the idea of the other mid-major coaches and use Kill's record against teams over .500 to embolden that belief, when in fact the same can be said about their respective candidates.

+1 A better way to judge a coach is to look at their conference record. If you want to judge a MAC coach, look at how they did against MAC teams. This prevents you from being overly impressed with a team that plays cupcakes, and prevents you from being overly down on a team that plays a brutal schedule. Kill was 18-7 in the MAC.

 

[GopherGod]

+1 A better way to judge a coach is to look at their conference record. If you want to judge a MAC coach, look at how they did against MAC teams. This prevents you from being overly impressed with a team that plays cupcakes, and prevents you from being overly down on a team that plays a brutal schedule. Kill was 18-7 in the MAC.

Should Maturi have went after Haywood at Miami of Ohio instead then, as he is a coach with experience at BCS schools and is turning around what appears to be a tougher situation than what Kill walked into at northern Illinois and just beat him as a 17.5 point underdog. I don't know the answer but curious to hear thoughts on it

 

[Uffda]

Should Maturi have went after Haywood at Miami of Ohio instead then, as he is a coach with experience at BCS schools and is turning around what appears to be a tougher situation than what Kill walked into at northern Illinois and just beat him as a 17.5 point underdog. I don't know the answer but curious to hear thoughts on it

Look at what Kill did at those other schools too --- not just NIU. Thats my comparison.

 

[Doogie]

Should Maturi have went after Haywood at Miami of Ohio instead then, as he is a coach with experience at BCS schools and is turning around what appears to be a tougher situation than what Kill walked into at northern Illinois and just beat him as a 17.5 point underdog. I don't know the answer but curious to hear thoughts on it

Is 4-years a long enough time for Maturi to recover from telling Haywood no in '07? If he wasn't good enough after interviewing in '07, could Maturi have hired him now?

 

[caliGopher]

Don't say things you can't back up Doogie. Just trying to make a name for yourself. Maturi made a bad hire in Brewster. No doubt about that. If you look at his body of work he has done a good job as Athletic Director. I also think he made a solid hire in Kill. You have no idea of what went on in the hiring or search process. He never promised a Tubby Smith hire. He said he would like to get someone of that caliber. Maybe he did ... time will tell.

Therein lies the rub.

Maturi wanted a "Tubby Smith Type" hire to undo the significant damage he did to the program by hiring Tim Brewster.

Kill is a good coach and could turn out to be the next Vince Lombardi, but "we'll have to give him time to prove himself" which equals not turning the fiasco he created around with this hire, something he needed to do and knew it which is why he said what he said.

We lost revenue next year with this hire unless Kill absolutley blows USC out of the building in the first game.

Not Kill's problem. Joel's. And he abdicated responsibility in dealing with the mess he's created of the football program.

 

[GopherGod]

Is 4-years a long enough time for Maturi to recover from telling Haywood no in '07? If he wasn't good enough after interviewing in '07, could Maturi have hired him now?

Heck I don't know how Maturi's mind works but if Maturi felt that the MAC was the route we had to go, I hope he researched all the coaches in that conference. Some may even claim that a guy like Frank Solich at Ohio has done more in his career than any of the other coaches based on his past track record and taking over a perennial trainwreck at Ohio. I am not trying to rip on Kill and will support him but am not so sure that Maturi did much due diligence when he hadnt even contacted the guy until Saturday night. I just hope that Maturi has ensured to the best of his ability that Minnesota got the best coach in the MAC, I cannot say.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Should Maturi have went after Haywood at Miami of Ohio instead then, as he is a coach with experience at BCS schools and is turning around what appears to be a tougher situation than what Kill walked into at northern Illinois and just beat him as a 17.5 point underdog. I don't know the answer but curious to hear thoughts on it

Haywood did a really nice job this year, but I don't think he has done it on a long enough scale to really be considered. He has only been a head coach for 2 seasons. He also didn't walk into any worse of a situation than Kill did, both programs were coming off 10 loss seasons before their respective hires and they were both in the title game a short time later. They both did a nice job, the difference for me, Kill has more experience and has done it more than once. I also worry that if Haywood wouldn't have won that game against Northern Illinois, he never would have been considered and I would hate to have the 2010 MAC Championship game decide who our new head coach was going to be.

 

[caliGopher]

Don't say things you can't back up Doogie. Just trying to make a name for yourself. Maturi made a bad hire in Brewster. No doubt about that. If you look at his body of work he has done a good job as Athletic Director. I also think he made a solid hire in Kill. You have no idea of what went on in the hiring or search process. He never promised a Tubby Smith hire. He said he would like to get someone of that caliber. Maybe he did ... time will tell.

Therein lies the rub.

Maturi wanted a "Tubby Smith Type" hire to undo the significant damage he did to the program by hiring Tim Brewster.

Kill is a good coach and could turn out to be the next Vince Lombardi, but "we'll have to give him time to prove himself" which equals not turning the fiasco he created around with this hire, something he needed to do and knew it which is why he said what he said.

We lost revenue next year with this hire unless Kill absolutley blows USC out of the building in the first game.

Not Kill's problem. Joel's. And he abdicated responsibility in dealing with the mess he's created of the football program.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Therein lies the rub.

Maturi wanted a "Tubby Smith Type" hire to undo the significant damage he did to the program by hiring Tim Brewster.

Kill is a good coach and could turn out to be the next Vince Lombardi, but "we'll have to give him time to prove himself" which equals not turning the fiasco he created around with this hire, something he needed to do and knew it which is why he said what he said.

We lost revenue next year with this hire unless Kill absolutley blows USC out of the building in the first game.

Not Kill's problem. Joel's. And he abdicated responsibility in dealing with the mess he's created of the football program.

The whole Tubby Smith hire comment was stupid. First off, what does that even mean? Did he have to have a national championship? Did he have to come from what is usually thought of as a destination school? SEC? A coach that will get us to 6th place in the Big 10 and lose in the tourney? What?!?!

It only opened himself up to a tremendous amount of heat no matter who he hired and he wasn't savy enough to realize that. The guy does such a disservice to himself everytime he tries to do more than he should, and he did it again.

For me, I have no problem with us not making a "Tubby Smith type hire", I have way more of a problem with him saying it.

 

[phipedes]

Don't say things you can't back up Doogie. Just trying to make a name for yourself. Maturi made a bad hire in Brewster. No doubt about that. If you look at his body of work he has done a good job as Athletic Director. I also think he made a solid hire in Kill. You have no idea of what went on in the hiring or search process. He never promised a Tubby Smith hire. He said he would like to get someone of that caliber. Maybe he did ... time will tell.

What? Is this Joel Maturi's mother? Who in their right mind would say his body of work here at the U qualifies as a "good job"?

 

[The 12th Man]

Misquote? How?

You completely ignored the context of the statement and conveniently left out the part where he talked about needing to see if there was that type of interest. Seems to me, that is the important part.

He talked about what they were trying to do - find a Tubby Smith - while admitting that he needed to gauge the interest. It has since been spun into Maturi guaranteeing the football version of Tubby. You lamented the fact that Maturi wasn't being real with the fans. I argue that being real is exactly what he was doing and people just didn't want to listen.

 

[glovedgopher]

I am excited about the new football coach. Maturi picked the right guy in my opinion. Can people accept that Joel Maturi is the AD and he made a good hire of Jerry Kill. You are not AD so it wasn't your choice. Mike Leach was never going to be hired here. Please accept that fact. If Mike Leach was such a great candidate, why haven't any other programs interviewed him? Its easy to pile on people when you don't have to do to their face --- my opinion. Too many seem like they want to cut off their nose to spite their face. ---- I'll show em because they didn't hire my guy mentality.

Again, I wanted Maturi fired years ago. This has nothing to do with Leach not being hired. How do we even know this is a good hire? The guy could fail very easily just like Brew or be average like Mason.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

The 2-12 brow beating is absurd. Imagine OSU, Alabama, Texas, etc record going against the next level: Bears, Packers, Pats, Jets, etc. You get the idea. Big Ten teams get judged most on how well they do against other Big Ten teams.

 

[tjgopher]

My main point was more that there seems to be a lot of people on here who really liked the idea of the other mid-major coaches and use Kill's record against teams over .500 to embolden that belief, when in fact the same can be said about their respective candidates.

And, even the great Mike Leach's record against .500+ BCS teams isn't so hot: 22-33

Simple fact of the matter is, most coaches (save the true superstars) have sub.-500 records against teams that are .500+. To use that against Kill and not consider it with the others is unfair (as you pointed out). Golden is 1-16 against .500+ teams and hasn't beaten a big boy yet. That's worse than Kill, who just won the league that Golden was coaching in. And, I was a Golden supporter. I'm liking Kill more and more. Obviously, time will tell.

 

[ruralgopher]

You completely ignored the context of the statement and conveniently left out the part where he talked about needing to see if there was that type of interest. Seems to me, that is the important part.

He talked about what they were trying to do - find a Tubby Smith - while admitting that he needed to gauge the interest. It has since been spun into Maturi guaranteeing the football version of Tubby. You lamented the fact that Maturi wasn't being real with the fans. I argue that being real is exactly what he was doing and people just didn't want to listen.

The problem isn't just the tubby comment. Combine the Tubby comment with publicly saying that they could pay top 25 money, and given a 51 day search, with many interviews, never trying to manage expectations. Not once. Instead he said stupid things like, 'I can't believe he is interested!' and adding to this perception by telling regents 'the pool is very strong'.

All of these lead to many of us reasonably hoping for a big name hire. I'm behind coach kill 100%, we are keeping our tix and tailgate passes and think he has the bonefides to be successful here. That in no way means that Joel and Bob didn't screw the pooch on the PR side of this. And they hired a PR guru to boot? Unbelievable.

 

[RodentRampage]

The irony is that if Kill does well, Maturi will be remembered a great AD, even if he did bumble into having to settle for Kill.

 

[WhatAMaroon]

Doogie is justa junior sports guy trying desperately to get some credibility, since most of what he writes is idle speculation. Some people here are happy that anyone associated with the local media comes in here, so they suck up to him. Why people pay attention to his ramblings is beyond me. I would rather hear from a real sports pro.

 

[harrys ghost]

I think Joel's focus is on the dollars. Looking at it from a "bean counter"'s point of view, Kill looks like a more than competent coach who could be hired (with complete staff) for about what the salary for a bigger name alone would be. From that perspective, the hire makes sense. It may turn out to be a short sighted view or it may not -- only time will tell.

 

[glovedgopher]

I think Joel's focus is on the dollars. Looking at it from a "bean counter"'s point of view, Kill looks like a more than competent coach who could be hired (with complete staff) for about what the salary for a bigger name alone would be. From that perspective, the hire makes sense. It may turn out to be a short sighted view or it may not -- only time will tell.

Yet every few years we give coaches free money after we fire them or after a lawsuit. Joel needs to focus on getting what we paid for.

 

[glovedgopher]

The 2-12 brow beating is absurd. Imagine OSU, Alabama, Texas, etc record going against the next level: Bears, Packers, Pats, Jets, etc. You get the idea. Big Ten teams get judged most on how well they do against other Big Ten teams.

Guys only two of his 12 defeats came against a Big Ten team Wisconsin/Minnesota. He had 2 others defeats from BCS schools (Iowa St and Tenn). That leaves him 2-8 against the other conferences. What they don't have teams with better than .500 records in the MAC?

 

[Doogie]

The 2-12 brow beating is absurd. Imagine OSU, Alabama, Texas, etc record going against the next level: Bears, Packers, Pats, Jets, etc. You get the idea. Big Ten teams get judged most on how well they do against other Big Ten teams.

Among those 12 losses: MN in '08, W. Mich in '08, Ball St. in '08, C. Mich in '08, Navy in '08, La. Tech in '08, Idaho in '09, Ohio in '09, C. Mich in '09, Miami (OH) last Friday

 

[SelectionSunday]

Doogie certainly should understand the word average.

 

[goldengophers]

Among those 12 losses: MN in '08, W. Mich in '08, Ball St. in '08, C. Mich in '08, Navy in '08, La. Tech in '08, Idaho in '09, Ohio in '09, C. Mich in '09, Miami (OH) last Friday

The potentially bad losses from that group would be W. Mich, Idaho, Ohio and possibly Miami. The other MAC loses were against teams with very good starting QBs who ended up playing in bowl games.

 

[Doogie]

Doogie is justa junior sports guy trying desperately to get some credibility, since most of what he writes is idle speculation. Some people here are happy that anyone associated with the local media comes in here, so they suck up to him. Why people pay attention to his ramblings is beyond me. I would rather hear from a real sports pro.

junior sports guy? When can I move up to adult status? 20-years, 25-years working?
Suck up? I get savaged more than anyone on here.

 

[Sir Tipsy McStagger]

Don't say things you can't back up Doogie. Just trying to make a name for yourself.

Not buying this one. He already has a name for himself. That's why he has the blog.

Anyone can have a blog. The Star Tribune has bloggers because they work cheap. Bloggers have replaced skilled writers. I will state that Doogie is a far better writer than GopherLady. I can at least read through his work without getting annoyed by the poor writing style and embarrassing grammar.

It speak volumes of the state of newspapers today when they provide a forum to someone who is not a trained journalist and clearly don't edit the pieces before they are published. That type of writing used to be reserved for letters to the editor.

 

[ruralgopher]

The potentially bad losses from that group would be W. Mich, Idaho, Ohio and possibly Miami. The other MAC loses we against teams with very good starting QBs who ended up playing in bowl games.

I don't think they are 'bad losses' though, most of them were in his first year, when turned NIU from 2-10 to 6-7.

 

[glovedgopher]

The potentially bad losses from that group would be W. Mich, Idaho, Ohio and possibly Miami. The other MAC loses were against teams with very good starting QBs who ended up playing in bowl games.

So we only have to worry if we are facing a good QB and teams the might end up in bowls. We should be fine in the Big Ten because only 7 teams go to bowls.