Doogie: Saturday is the right time to make the switch to Max Shortell

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I agree. We are 20 point dogs and Shortell seems to play a lot more loose. Give Gray the opportunity to play to his strengths and use him in the redzone in difference formations. What Gray did in the Iowa game last year is how he should be used going forward.
 

"I'd line up the receivers in man coverage, then creep an extra guy in the box to spy him. That's the way to do it. He, as mentioned previously, is completing less than 50 percent on his passes, and has looked inept in the air. He's overthrowing and underthrowing open and covered receivers. He isn't reading progressions (he was never asked to do this last year).

I'd put an extra guy in the box to slow his running until he shows he can hurt you through the air. Because I bet he won't."


Yup..bench him, it's time to make a change. What? Oh...that's the Michigan guy talking about Robinson? Really?
 

Our chances for an upset, albeit slim, best lie with Shortell. Any Michigan fan will tell you that their secondary is weak. With a passer that can accurately throw the ball over 10 yards a team can move the ball. Unfortunately Gray has not demonstrated this, but Max has; accordingly Max should get the start. I don't think we win no matter who starts, but with Max I believe we lose by less. I think Kill starts Gray, but hopefully he pulls him early if Gray shows that he is not a passing threat. I will be disappointed if Kill stays with Gray if he continues to tuck the ball and run when his first read is not open.
 


GO4INLALALAND said:
Our chances for an upset, albeit slim, best lie with Shortell. Any Michigan fan will tell you that their secondary is weak. With a passer that can accurately throw the ball over 10 yards a team can move the ball. Unfortunately Gray has not demonstrated this, but Max has; accordingly Max should get the start. I don't think we win no matter who starts, but with Max I believe we lose by less. I think Kill starts Gray, but hopefully he pulls him early if Gray shows that he is not a passing threat. I will be disappointed if Kill stays with Gray if he continues to tuck the ball and run when his first read is not open.
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Stats please on the more accurate passer.
 

They are basically identical in passing. I think I'll stay with Gray.

NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT RAT
Marqueis Gray 39 77 521 50.6 6.77 3 3 112.5
Max Shortell 13 28 196 46.4 7.00 2 2 114.5
 

fej said:
Stats please on the more accurate passer.
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Ummmmm.... you can't tell a LITTLE just by looking? I know sometimes it's hard to read sarcasm on the board so I'm going to assume that was sarcasm.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Ummmmm.... you can't tell a LITTLE just by looking? I know sometimes it's hard to read sarcasm on the board so I'm going to assume that was sarcasm.
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Too many people have such blind faith in Gray that the only way they can argue that Gray>Shortell is by the box score instead of actually watching the games.
 



Shortell is 6 for his last 16 pass attempts including 2'game sealing ints.

Against tough opponents nmsu and Ndsu he is a combined 6 for 15.

He is clearly the more accurate passer. He is the next coming of dan Marino, or maybe Adam weber. Or maybe Brian cupito.
 

Former Goofer said:
Too many people have such blind faith in Gray that the only way they can argue that Gray>Shortell is by the box score instead of actually watching the games.
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Too many people credit the eye test for saying Shortell is better. Your eyes show you what you want to see. Shortell has been an awful passer except for one drive against USC.
 

Rosemountian said:
Too many people credit the eye test for saying Shortell is better. Your eyes show you what you want to see. Shortell has been an awful passer except for one drive against USC.
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Give me a break. Shortell's mechanics, and general passing ability, are clearly better than Gray's.

Gray is an impressive athlete, but one that is not likely cut-out for the QB position in the B1G. He has NFL athleticism, but not at QB.

With a little more college game experience, Shortell will turn heads. I can see him having a huge, break-out game tomorrow.
 

If you guys can't see the difference between Gray and Shortell in terms of passing, then you have no clue. First off, for Shortell, there has been quite a bit of dropped passes by his receivers. That hasn't plagued Gray because Gray's passes are usually not even close to the receiver. Second, Shortell is usually only put into the game when the game is on the line. A lot of pressure, a young QB, and defenses already keying on stopping the pass and a comeback, and he needs to be perfect every down. Gray is in the game at the start, where there isn't pressure to be perfect on every down. If/when we finally get to see Shortell start a game and play most of it, you will be quite surprised how much difference it makes. Sure, he may not be able to make 15 yard runs to keep drives alive, but his passing will.

I seriously think we can upset Michigan if Shortell starts and we contain Robinson and keep him under 100 yards rushing. I'm not so worried about his passing. As he's just a faster, smaller version of Gray. If we stop his running, we will have a great chance to win. (Sounds like a recipe to beat Gray and the Gophers also)
 



Well said. I'm not sure on the containing Robinson part, but we will see a much different, more productive offense tomorrow if Max is under center.
 

Shortell(Gingerella) only makes sense if Gray is in at WR. Otherwise, keep gray in.
 

Rosemountian said:
Too many people credit the eye test for saying Shortell is better. Your eyes show you what you want to see. Shortell has been an awful passer except for one drive against USC.
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It's a good thing every one of the defensive coordinators the Gophers have played so far don't know a thing or things could be a lot worse.

For some inexplicable reason, against one Gopher QB they crowd the LOS and dare the Gophers to throw and for the other, they actually stick with a 7-man front and drop back into pass coverage.

I do know one thing. One QB has had the distinct advantage of playing more consecutive series, and with that the chance to get into more of a rhythm and it hasn't seemed to help him out at all. The other QB has been brought in for his first play of the game on multiple occasions when it was 3rd and 10 or 3rd and 12..... and converted both times.

Like I said, this will all sort itself out on it's own without anybody on here fighting on behalf of one QB or the other. For some reason a true freshman is getting a lot more snaps than anybody ever anticipated and it looks to be going even more that way every game. I seriously doubt the playing time distribution will be the same 3-4 weeks from now as it has been the last week or so, and that wont' happen as a result the efforts of anybody on this board.
 

The Bottom Line

is this, instead of being 3 and 1 like we SHOULD be, we are 1 and 3 going into conference play. That is the prime indicator that a change needs to take place. If we were 3 and 1, I'd say stay with Gray.
 

Can anyone also tell me why the Gopher coaches are putting in a true freshman QB to try to lead his team from behind? It's obvious they like his passing abilities more than Gray, right? Or else they wouldn't even let Shortell in the game. Sure as a whole, and probably because of the respect the coaches have for Gray, he is the starter. But once Shortell actually gets college experience, he will be even better. Just think guys, Gray has 2+ years of College football experience. Shortell has 4 games. Last year at this time, he was probably wondering what he was going to wear to his HS Prom.
 

And both only have 4 games of experience at QB, I don't count Gray's reps in the past as it was almost exclusively designed runs.

What is the fascination with backup QB's and our fan base? The last 2 years with Gray, now with Max. Give them both a chance to develop, something tells me the coaches know what they are doing.
 

RolGnav said:
Can anyone also tell me why the Gopher coaches are putting in a true freshman QB to try to lead his team from behind? It's obvious they like his passing abilities more than Gray, right? Or else they wouldn't even let Shortell in the game. Sure as a whole, and probably because of the respect the coaches have for Gray, he is the starter. But once Shortell actually gets college experience, he will be even better. Just think guys, Gray has 2+ years of College football experience. Shortell has 4 games. Last year at this time, he was probably wondering what he was going to wear to his HS Prom.[/QUOTE]

A like a qb that plans that far ahead.
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Rosemountian said:
Shortell is 6 for his last 16 pass attempts including 2'game sealing ints.

Against tough opponents nmsu and Ndsu he is a combined 6 for 15.

He is clearly the more accurate passer. He is the next coming of dan Marino, or maybe Adam weber. Or maybe Brian cupito.
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I'd take any of those 3 at the moment. :)
 

Tim Riggins said:
And both only have 4 games of experience at QB, I don't count Gray's reps in the past as it was almost exclusively designed runs.

What is the fascination with backup QB's and our fan base? The last 2 years with Gray, now with Max. Give them both a chance to develop, something tells me the coaches know what they are doing.
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+1. Couldn't agree. more. Quite frankly, there are other glaring problems that need to be adressed first before we continue to always cry for the back-up. Like our god awful pass rush for instance, which makes our secondary look worse than it actually is!.

Now, I am not saying that Gray has been phenomenal by any means. His pocket pressence (more so, lack there of) leaves something more to be desired. Although, it does not seem that he has been improving at all through these games either. But it is only his 4th game playing QB in quite a while. We do not get the luxury of watching practice day in and day out. So, I am going to error on the coaches decision on this one.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
I do know one thing. One QB has had the distinct advantage of playing more consecutive series, and with that the chance to get into more of a rhythm and it hasn't seemed to help him out at all. The other QB has been brought in for his first play of the game on multiple occasions when it was 3rd and 10 or 3rd and 12..... QUOTE]

This is often overlooked. Numbers alone often times do not tell the WHOLE story. I don't know what the answer is at QB at this point, but Shortell has clearly not been put in as many "good" opportunities as Gray.
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howeda7 said:
I'd take any of those 3 at the moment. :)
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It's funny. I get ripped on for saying Shortell is no good, say i have the blinders on. They fail to realize I advocate playing Shortell.



He should play, I'm just letting everyone know he isn't very good.
 

Thanks for the link.

I just wonder if Gray's accuracy will ever be there. In addition, and was talking to someone today who was a part of the program last year about this: Horton's offense vs. Limegrover's offense is day and night. Limegrover can say all he wants that he'll simplify things to suit his players, but even the simplification is a lot more complicated than Horton's offense. Too much is on Gray's plate, the progressions, etc. then making the decision to run, that I'd let him focus on the position that will make him good $$ somewhere (the NFL or Canada): WR. But because of his legs, would still find 3 series for him per game to play QB.
 

Will there be more Parrish or Alipate threads tomorrow? I'm going to guess Alipate because "well he looked good in the spring game".
 

Get the most out of what you have to work with . Gray is a super athlete who is good at running the ball and can catch. He doesn't look to be comfortable at QB in a passing offense. Either install an option game or put him at wingback/WR. He would make the linebackers/d-backs step back a couple of steps and we can take advantage of that with the play action. I could see Q in the NFL at a skill position, but not QB. Maximize! Running Q at QB does not make maximum use of what he has to contribute to this team. The cupboard is just as bare a JK said. Get Max S the reps and keep the baby step improvements coming. This year is a ground floor rebuilder. Keep looking forward.

You reading this LaDavious? Argue if you must, but on this one I'm right.

Go Gophers!
 

Gray can't catch that well. He has below average hands.
 


Rosemountian said:
Too many people credit the eye test for saying Shortell is better. Your eyes show you what you want to see. Shortell has been an awful passer except for one drive against USC.
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In your opinion, why do the coaches keep inserting Shortell in the 4th quarters or when we go down by 2-3 scores?
 

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