highwayman
Knows Less Than PJ Fleck
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2009
- Messages
- 8,056
- Reaction score
- 1,760
- Points
- 113
Nor does Tubby consistently over-promise and under-deliver.
I agree. He promises nothing and delivers nothing. I want that job.
Doogie....I have a request
- Thread starter Goldteam
- Start date
I agree. He promises nothing and delivers nothing. I want that job.
highwayman
Knows Less Than PJ Fleck
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2009
- Messages
- 8,056
- Reaction score
- 1,760
- Points
- 113
You're absolutely correct.
Tubby took a team that couldn't score or play defense and stayed out of trouble and turned it into a team that can't score, can play defense, and can't shoot free throws or stay out of trouble.
That's walkin' the walk!!!
This is simply ridiculous. How exactly has Tubby "walked the walk"? And Brewster is only a Blowhard if you take every thing literally and don't see the Big picture he is creating.
Please explain to me how the team was "competitive" losing by 29 points to MSU last year. Or how "competitive" they were against Texas in the NCAA tourney. I'll wait. I'd say someone that competes in the games he's lost wouldn't have more than a handful of double digit losses on his record. How many do the Gophers have under Tubby?
Bob_Loblaw
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2009
- Messages
- 21,000
- Reaction score
- 16,702
- Points
- 113
There is also no Division 1AA in college basketball. Yeah, there are way more division 1 basketball teams, but there are certainly way more basketball teams that have literally zero chance of making the tournament. How many of those basketball teams play in a 1 tournament team league? There are 26 non-"bcs" basketball conferences in Division 1 basketball, and there are 5 non-bcs football conferences in Divison 1.
In this past seaon, there were 44 BCS teams in Bowl Games, and 37 BCS teams in the NCAA tournament.
I think making the tournament a marginally larger accomplishment than making a bowl game. I asked the question a few months ago...which is better:
(1) If Tubby makes the tournament in 1 of 3 seasons as our bball coach; or
(2) If Brewster makes a bowl game 2 of 3 seasons as our football coach.
In my opinion, it is really close.
go4rob
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2008
- Messages
- 976
- Reaction score
- 147
- Points
- 43
It's hardly a joke in this town when The Barn is once again being packed to the rafters to watch an extremely well-coached Gopher team take it down to the wire against the number 5 or 6 team in the country. You are so far off point on your posts it's not even funny. Tubby turned this basketball program around in a heartbeat.
WAGopher
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 4,623
- Reaction score
- 2,849
- Points
- 113
I watched the game and I thought for the most part Tubby and Izzo coached equally well. The 3 reasons we lost the game is we don't have a star like Kalin Lucas, they are a little quicker defensively then us, and they shot lights out from downtown the 2nd half, which stretched our D tiring them out so we were less active on offense at the end of the game.
Goldy223123
New member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2010
- Messages
- 23
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 1
I'm talking about their career achievements (National Championship compared to ?) and how should I take Brewster - ignore him?
Tubby vs Brewster
Because...
1. If you believe Brewster inherited bare cupboards, Tubby inherited a program w/o cupboards or a kitchen to put them in.
2. Tubby hasn't had the luxury of "doing thing the right way" and redshirting all his talented incoming players. They are playing serious minutes every game, contributing in a significant way, and there's immediate evidence of player improvement across the board.
3. Could be wrong here but I believe he's only on his third recruiting class, the first two of which are beyond anything we've seen since Clem's one class (James, Thomas, etc) or the Dutcher pipeline into Michigan.
4. The team has an identity that even the most casual fan can recognize. 9 times out of 10 you know that the team will play smoothering defense and it's fun to watch them do so.
5. The cream of the B10 came into our house ranked 7th in the nation and we gave them everything they wanted despite our being shorthanded. We should have won the game and there were a couple of plays that I believe swung the game in Spartys favor (Johnson going 1-on-1 and missing the shotafter his steal and Carter's indecisiveness whether to dunk or layup that resulted in a miss). We've yet to see that competitiveness from Brewster's squad (yes, I was there for the Cal game and it was close for a while, but it wasn't the same as yesterday - and yes I was at the Barn yesterday so I have a basis for making the comparison).
If you choose to support Brewster using the argument that he's bringing in talent, you have to also give props to Tubby for the same and perhaps even more so. If you're going to give props to Brewster for instilling a change in defense, same goes for Tubby. If you're wondering why Tubby "gets a free pass" and Brewster gets ripped, you're missing the big picture. Tubby has resurrected a program that was dead on the vine in very short order. Brewster was hired to elevate a program that in the eyes of many was mired in mediocre success. After 3 years, we're still in the same place - and there is no debating that fact. IF Tubby gets White and Mbawke next season, there's reason to believe we challenge for the B10 title and are relevant on the national scene. Brewster will have his heralded first class on the field in earnest next year and I don't think there's anyone here, even Brewster's most ardent supporters, who believe that we will be threatening to win the B10 title...
Because...
1. If you believe Brewster inherited bare cupboards, Tubby inherited a program w/o cupboards or a kitchen to put them in.
2. Tubby hasn't had the luxury of "doing thing the right way" and redshirting all his talented incoming players. They are playing serious minutes every game, contributing in a significant way, and there's immediate evidence of player improvement across the board.
3. Could be wrong here but I believe he's only on his third recruiting class, the first two of which are beyond anything we've seen since Clem's one class (James, Thomas, etc) or the Dutcher pipeline into Michigan.
4. The team has an identity that even the most casual fan can recognize. 9 times out of 10 you know that the team will play smoothering defense and it's fun to watch them do so.
5. The cream of the B10 came into our house ranked 7th in the nation and we gave them everything they wanted despite our being shorthanded. We should have won the game and there were a couple of plays that I believe swung the game in Spartys favor (Johnson going 1-on-1 and missing the shotafter his steal and Carter's indecisiveness whether to dunk or layup that resulted in a miss). We've yet to see that competitiveness from Brewster's squad (yes, I was there for the Cal game and it was close for a while, but it wasn't the same as yesterday - and yes I was at the Barn yesterday so I have a basis for making the comparison).
If you choose to support Brewster using the argument that he's bringing in talent, you have to also give props to Tubby for the same and perhaps even more so. If you're going to give props to Brewster for instilling a change in defense, same goes for Tubby. If you're wondering why Tubby "gets a free pass" and Brewster gets ripped, you're missing the big picture. Tubby has resurrected a program that was dead on the vine in very short order. Brewster was hired to elevate a program that in the eyes of many was mired in mediocre success. After 3 years, we're still in the same place - and there is no debating that fact. IF Tubby gets White and Mbawke next season, there's reason to believe we challenge for the B10 title and are relevant on the national scene. Brewster will have his heralded first class on the field in earnest next year and I don't think there's anyone here, even Brewster's most ardent supporters, who believe that we will be threatening to win the B10 title...
KD6-3.7
credulous skeptic
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 2,960
- Reaction score
- 246
- Points
- 63
i think that brewster is getting a bad rap here (although there's really nothing new about that). brewster is a rookie coach. if you are upset with him for talking rose bowls then fine, that is very in step with the minnesota fandom ethos. however, if you remember that he doesn't get to coast on his resume, he doesn't get the benefit of being one of the highest profile coaches in the game, he doesn't get spared by the local media when his recruits have problems (i shudder to think of how brewster would be treated if half of his incoming class were suspended because of off field issues).
brewster has done a valiant job with the hand he has been dealt. whether or not he is the guy for the job or not is yet to be seen, but for a rookie coach with coordinators walking out every year and one of the most pathetic fan bases in the history of the big ten, he is on the right track.
brewster has done a valiant job with the hand he has been dealt. whether or not he is the guy for the job or not is yet to be seen, but for a rookie coach with coordinators walking out every year and one of the most pathetic fan bases in the history of the big ten, he is on the right track.
grunkiejr
Mentor to 007
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,184
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 36
Your reading comprehension is weak at best.
I compared 2008 football to 2008-09 basketball because (A) It was the same school year and (B) we can't compare 2009 football to 2009-10 basketball yet because the basketball season isn't done.
Russ Archambault
Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 112
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 16
This is a good point. 3 years in and we have no idea what kind of offense Brewster will roll out next year. He says it will stay the same, but I'll believe it when I see it.
One thing to add, you can't compare signature wins, Tubby plays 30 games a year (2/year vs. Big 10), Brewster only 13. More opportunity for signature wins.
There's something to be said about Tubby bringing the program to respectability, which is great and I'm happy that we can go to the buzzer vs. top 10 teams. But I think we're going down a path where I can't see us getting one tournament win in 5 years. We just don't have the talent or the identity of a team that can play with the lead in the 2nd half. A killer instinct, if you will.
Bob_Loblaw
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2009
- Messages
- 21,000
- Reaction score
- 16,702
- Points
- 113
Now, the bolded part is the best argument that anyone could possibly make for why Tubby gets a longer leash than Brewster. But even that argument is more based in perception than reality. I think because we were used to a strong bball program (Clem years) and a weak fball program (Wacker years), a lot of us fail to realize just how similar Monson and Mason were. They reached to about the same peak (I think 4th in Conference) and had an almost identical Big 10 record in their tenures. The last Monson team was way worse than the last Mason team, but Monson left Tubby with more talent than Mason left Brewster. Now for your original points...
#1: This point is extremely debateable. Before the Gophers got rid of Mason (and before the Daniels/Jones debacle) I was already thinking we were going to win 3 games tops. That was a complete and utter lack of talent.
#2: Apples and Oranges...their simply isn't much redshirting done in college basketball, it is the exception in basketball, it is typically the rule in football. Furthermore, those Tubby recruits haven't set the world on fire (Joseph, Sampson, Iverson, Williams). I realize that they are young, but this team is still led by the left over Monson recruits (Nolen, Hoff, Johnson, Westbrook).
#3: Brewster's recruiting classes have trounced Mason's as well. Both coaches have done a good job of bringing in more talent.
#4: This is a good point. Tubby has done a better job of creating an identity for the team, it just hasn't translated into a ton more success than Brew's identity-less football teams. But I do agree with you, in general, it is important to set an identity for a program.
#5: We get blown out some games and we hang tough in some games. The Gopher football team hung tough in Iowa and got clobbered at Ohio St. The Gopher basketball team hung tough versus Michigan St. and got whipped in Purdue. The only Gopher football games that were embarrasments were Ohio St., and Iowa (last season). The Gopher basketball team has been embarrased a few times in the Tubby era as well.
grunkiejr
Mentor to 007
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,184
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 36
Mackenzie, Coleman and Tollackson was not a bad senior class in Tubby's first year. The next year's class was devoid of talent. Damian Johnson & Lawrence Westbrook have proven to be very good contributors. Hoff and Nolen were committed to Monson and signed with Tubby. That is 7 serviceable players out of a roster of 13 that were left behind for Tubby. Not a full cupboard but IMO it is a lot better than you make it out to be and more talent/starting position than the football team had in 2007.
What a load of crap. Anybody that watches college sports should realize that the frequency of redshirting in basketball is much lower than in football. The number of impact freshman in basketball is much higher than in football. John Wall is probably the best college player in the country (likely #1 pick) and he is a true freshman. Between size/strength not being as important in basketball and the AAU circuit preparing prep players for the rigor of college basketball much better than anything in football the two sports just don't compare in that regard.
That is true of both coaches.
Unfortunately Tubby's teams have an identity on offense too...they will dribble around with no movement for 25 seconds and then one of the guards will penetrate and force up a shot.
The parity in college basketball is greater than the parity in college football. You see more upsets in college basketball for that reason. Undefeated regular seasons are extrememly rare in college basketball but there were 5 teams that didn't lose a regular season game in college football this season. Part of that may be the number of games but a bigger part IMO is the physical dominance that teams like Ohio State have against the other teams in the league.
We also look lazy and uninspired in losing to a bad Indiana team the prior week. That shouldn't happen.
I agree that Tubby has raised expectations and brought in more talent than we had in the program. The increased talent level continues to elevate expectations and for whatever reason the team has not been meeting those expectations this year. At this point in time it looks like we will struggle to win 20 games and make the NCAA tournament. We have lost to a number of teams that I believe we have more talent than (Indiana, Portland, Texas A&M, Miami) and that is why I don't think he deserves a free pass. IMO we're paying him way too much money (and unlike most schools paying him more than our FB coach) to give him a free pass.
The only two teams that we lost to in football that I felt like we were better than were Illinois & Iowa State. Brewster shouldn't get a free pass but IMO he shouldn't be abused the way he is while Tubby doesn't take heat for underperforming expectations thus far this season. If Tubby doesn't make the NCAA tournament with essentially the same team that made it last year it raises eyebrows. Not having White & Mbakwe is irrelevant because the same players we have now were good enough to do it last year. Besides, Brewster takes heat for Lipscomb not getting in to school and he probably would have like to have Decker all season but he didn't have those luxuries.
Football and basketball are totally different in how quickly you can turn a program around. Like I said earlier, very few freshman make an impact in CFB but it happens regularly in CBB. CFB is a more physical game and for that reason most players don't make an impact until they are upper classmen. Expectations for turning around (and yes, despite the consistent low tier bowl games under Mason this was still a turn around situation as we hadn't been above .500 in the Big Ten since 2003) a football program should follow a longer timeline than for turning around a basketball program.
porscheboxster
Member
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2009
- Messages
- 48
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 6
Iowa still has a basketball program?
maxwellsmart
Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2009
- Messages
- 967
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 16
Has competed, hasn't competed? BS on its face and you know it. See progress with basketball, but not football (not said, but implied)? You're blind if you can't see depth of quality building on this FB team. Or perhaps you just don't care to see it that way.
Tubby will get his team to the tourney? Hopefully, but at this point a tremendous leap of faith on your part. Where is that faith as it applies to our FB program? Or better yet. what's your real agenda? You love Mason, hate Brewster, are still fighting that battle? Got patted down one too many times getting into the stadium late last fall?
grunkiejr
Mentor to 007
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,184
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 36
That is a fair comparison.
Iceland12
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 24,758
- Reaction score
- 2,421
- Points
- 113
How have they doe against MSU and Purdue?
Gold Vision
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 6,379
- Reaction score
- 1,933
- Points
- 113
How has Brew done against Penn State and Ohio State? Since your comparing the best in the conference.
Iceland12
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 24,758
- Reaction score
- 2,421
- Points
- 113
Badly, very badly.
The whole post is silly. Tubby had a track record of success, Brewster had no track record at all. Tubby should get a lot more slack. Tubby's actual record is more late "Clem like" then mid-term Clem, or Dutcher or Musselman for that matter. It's understandable that a lot more people think he'll end-up in that territory rather the Monson's.
I don't know about you nemosgold, but this whole post puzzles me
Art Vandelay
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2008
- Messages
- 4,383
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 36
It's ridiculous to even bring this up. Brewster's B10 record is 6-18 (.250) while Tubby is winning conference games at a .465 clip (20-23).
That's almost twice as much better!!!!!!!!
That's almost twice as much better!!!!!!!!
This is an interesting thread ... I will say this: Tubby does have two nice wins to fall back on (vs. Louisville and at Wisconsin -- first "true" road win over a tourney team in 12-years), plus he has his success at Tulsa, Georgia, and Kentucky to fall back on ... but I am disappointed. He went to the Sweet 16 in his first three years at Tulsa and Georgia ... with their top-nine scorers back this year, they will be lucky to make the tourney ... The Nolen/White/Mbakwe situations clearly don't help, and I wish I had a good way of figuring out how much if any blame Tubby deserves for the predicaments the three of them are in -- more on the recruitment of White and Mbakwe.
My biggest gripe: They have no half-court offensive flow ... it's no different than his first year. We know what to clearly expect from his teams: Great defense, good offense when able to push the ball after turnovers, but a serious "yuck" factor in the half-court.
I have the bar raised so high for him -- should already be in the Hall of Fame -- that yes, I expect more, and now that the Vikings are done, I think you'll see some in the media go at him.
My biggest gripe: They have no half-court offensive flow ... it's no different than his first year. We know what to clearly expect from his teams: Great defense, good offense when able to push the ball after turnovers, but a serious "yuck" factor in the half-court.
I have the bar raised so high for him -- should already be in the Hall of Fame -- that yes, I expect more, and now that the Vikings are done, I think you'll see some in the media go at him.