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Gophers_4life said:
Yep.

Ever been on mud in cold, rainy weather?

Clear which “pick your poison” players prefer. A consistent, safe surface in any weather, after any amount of use.
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How is it that you know which players clearly prefer?


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Gophers_4life said:
Yep.

Ever been on mud in cold, rainy weather?

Clear which “pick your poison” players prefer. A consistent, safe surface in any weather, after any amount of use.
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Cool, cold, and “cold”> heat any day of the week and yes I’ve personally experienced all kinds of uncomfortable conditions. I’ve never had to worry about heat injury or imminent death on a moderate day on grass. With plastic and rubberized surfaces the ambient heat is a consideration and can be downright dangerous on a hot or “hot” day.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Cool, cold, and “cold”> heat any day of the week and yes I’ve personally experienced all kinds of uncomfortable conditions. I’ve never had to worry about heat injury or imminent death on a moderate day on grass. With plastic and rubberized surfaces the ambient heat is a consideration and can be downright dangerous on a hot or “hot” day.
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You prefer cold over hot and you live in SoCal?
 

My ideal temperature for exercise, sports, yardwork, is about 50-60 degrees depending on cloud coverage. Above 80 degrees in the sun all those activities become uncomfortable unless there are readily available mitigating factors, eg jumping in a pool, the ocean, a lake etc for evaporative cooling. Heat injury snuck up on me more than once and scared the **** out of me the first time it happened and I've been wary ever since. Even then it's a constant danger and has happened.

So yeah, I prefer cooler weather for anything active.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
My ideal temperature for exercise, sports, yardwork, is about 50-60 degrees depending on cloud coverage. Above 80 degrees in the sun all those activities become uncomfortable unless there are readily available mitigating factors, eg jumping in a pool, the ocean, a lake etc for evaporative cooling. Heat injury snuck up on me more than once and scared the **** out of me the first time it happened and I've been wary ever since. Even then it's a constant danger and has happened.

So yeah, I prefer cooler weather for anything active.
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You should try Portland.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
My ideal temperature for exercise, sports, yardwork, is about 50-60 degrees depending on cloud coverage. Above 80 degrees in the sun all those activities become uncomfortable unless there are readily available mitigating factors, eg jumping in a pool, the ocean, a lake etc for evaporative cooling. Heat injury snuck up on me more than once and scared the **** out of me the first time it happened and I've been wary ever since. Even then it's a constant danger and has happened.

So yeah, I prefer cooler weather for anything active.
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So, again - why do you live in Southern California?
 


dpodoll68 said:
So, again - why do you live in Southern California?
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If you’re thinking of a sauna you’re thinking of Florida and the southeast. Dry heat is tolerable for lounging etc until it gets very hot. High intensity exercise, not as tolerable.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
If you’re thinking of a sauna you’re thinking of Florida and the southeast. Dry heat is tolerable for lounging etc until it gets very hot. High intensity exercise, not as tolerable.
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Grass probably grows very well in S Cal. So your argument has more chance to be valid, there.

It’s highly invalid for Minn climate.
 



A cost analysis directly from the Field Turf Site:
................Natural Grass..........Turf
Base Prep: $150,000................$320,000
Materials : $220,000................$380,000
10 yr Maint: $200,000..............$50,000
TOTAL COST: $570,000............$750,000
G4L proven wrong.

FieldTurf has an advantage and what they are promoting with the above numbers is usage.
The 10 year usage for a Grass field would be only 6250 where a Turf field would have 29920 hours of use in 10 years,
thus making the cost per hour to use a grass field $91.20 and a turf being $25.07
 

GFBfan said:
A cost analysis directly from the Field Turf Site:
................Natural Grass..........Turf
Base Prep: $150,000................$320,000
Materials : $220,000................$380,000
10 yr Maint: $200,000..............$50,000
TOTAL COST: $570,000............$750,000
G4L proven wrong.

FieldTurf has an advantage and what they are promoting with the above numbers is usage.
The 10 year usage for a Grass field would be only 6250 where a Turf field would have 29920 hours of use in 10 years,
thus making the cost per hour to use a grass field $91.20 and a turf being $25.07
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Your above attempt was never my argument.

That’s like saying it’s cheaper to lease a car that you can only drive 100 miles a year, because of all the money you’ll save on gas.


Usage, and particular the rapid degradation of grass in our climate, is 100% the basis for why so many schools up here prefer, and have switched, to turf.

And, turf in November is always going to be safer than mud in November.

Arguing that perfect grass is safer and preferable to turf, is a red herring, because it can never be sustained with any usage.
 
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Gophers_4life said:
Your above attempt was never my argument.

That’s like saying it’s cheaper to lease a car that you can only drive 100 miles a year, because of all the money you’ll save on gas.


Usage, and particular the rapid degradation of grass in our climate, is 100% the basis for why so many schools up here prefer, and have switched, to turf.

And, turf in November is always going to be safer than mud in November.

Arguing that perfect grass is safer and preferable to turf, is a red herring, because it can never be sustained with any usage.
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At the U and most other colleges, each team has its own field and would use the field the same amount, whether it be grass or turf. Since Turf costs more, the usage over time would still be more.
At a HS where multiple sports would use the same field I might be able to see the benefit of having turf.
A hard frozen turf field in November is not safer than a grass field.
 

I don’t think these artificial surfaces are making it ten years in many cases, particularly with heavy use they need a lot of upkeep with infill, cleaning, disinfection, seam repair. Ultraviolet and thermal degradation is another issue. Look at your ten year old tires or plastic trim exposed to the elements.

Didn’t the U just replace their turf at TCF after 3-4 years? Warranty job?
 



GFBfan said:
At the U and most other colleges, each team has its own field and would use the field the same amount, whether it be grass or turf. Since Turf costs more, the usage over time would still be more.
At a HS where multiple sports would use the same field I might be able to see the benefit of having turf.
A hard frozen turf field in November is not safer than a grass field.
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It doesn’t cost more, because the figure provided in your post for maintaining the grass is false. That’s bare minimum maintenance, and wouldn’t fly in our climate, even with “low” usage (which wouldn’t be the case in TCF, or the football practice fields, at a minimum ... the other fields, maybe).

Hard frozen turf is safer than hard frozen mud.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Your above attempt was never my argument.

That’s like saying it’s cheaper to lease a car that you can only drive 100 miles a year, because of all the money you’ll save on gas.


Usage, and particular the rapid degradation of grass in our climate, is 100% the basis for why so many schools up here prefer, and have switched, to turf.

And, turf in November is always going to be safer than mud in November.

Arguing that perfect grass is safer and preferable to turf, is a red herring, because it can never be sustained with any usage.
Click to expand...

Plus, you have already told us that players clearly prefer turf. Don’t forget that. Based on nothing, but supports your argument.


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Pompous Elitist said:
I don’t think these artificial surfaces are making it ten years in many cases, particularly with heavy use they need a lot of upkeep with infill, cleaning, disinfection, seam repair. Ultraviolet and thermal degradation is another issue. Look at your ten year old tires or plastic trim exposed to the elements.

Didn’t the U just replace their turf at TCF after 3-4 years? Warranty job?
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That was because of he Vikings.

Even with a 5 year replacement, the cost would be cheaper for turf, given the huge amount that would be needed to maintain the grass as best possible, which would still give you slop and mud late in the season.


It’s great that you guys are happy to die on this hill though. Doesn’t matter to me ... I know for a fact that leaders at the U will *never* install grass at the stadium or practice fields. Go ahead and email them.
 

Spoofin said:
Plus, you have already told us that players clearly prefer turf. Don’t forget that. Based on nothing, but supports your argument.
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Sounds good!! Let me know what the U leadership says in response to your email demanding that grass be installed. I’m sure they’ll be very receptive.
 

Gophers_4life said:
It doesn’t cost more, because the figure provided in your post for maintaining the grass is false. That’s bare minimum maintenance, and wouldn’t fly in our climate, even with “low” usage (which wouldn’t be the case in TCF, or the football practice fields, at a minimum ... the other fields, maybe).

Hard frozen turf is safer than hard frozen mud.
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I didn't provide the numbers, FieldTurf did.
You really think they would undersell the cost of field maintenance on their site, which.....promotes buying FieldTurf?
 

I can confirm every number in that Fieldturf analysis is rear orifice generated. I have never in my life seen a genuine cost analysis from a salesman, for anything. Caveat emptor, and run your own numbers specific to your situation. I’m not sure many administrators bother with realistic analysis in practice or at least I’ve never seen it in my professional life. Sorry, not sorry.
 

The turf was replaced in 2014 for the Yikes and their heating coils, then again in 2016. I’m not sure why?

While searching the google, came across this gem. Soccer players prefer grass.


LA Galaxy fault Minnesota United's 'worst field' for injuries on artificial turf

The LA Galaxy blamed the artificial turf at Minnesota United after multiple players were injured during their game at TFC Bank Stadium on Sunday.

Midfielder Baggio Husidic suffered the worst, breaking his leg while tring to slide in the first half. He had to be stretchered off the pitch.

The MLS club said an extent of the injury would be announced after the 30-year-old sees a specialist on Tuesday.

Joao Pedro also tweaked his hamstring in the game, while Jelle Van Damme reported pain in his knee and afterwards blasted the FieldTurf Revolution surface.

"Honestly, with all respect, this is the worst field I ever played on in this league," Van Damme said. "It can only cause you injuries. I think soccer needs to be played on grass."

Minnesota United is playing at the University of Minnesota's football stadium in its first season in MLS while constucting a soccer-specific stadium that is increasingly unlikely to open before 2019.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/major-le...s-worst-field-for-injuries-on-artificial-turf
 

P.E. I know you’re busy right now crafting a short essay that you’ll email to U leadership, carefully and thoughtfully demanding that they replace the turf in TCF and the practice facility with grass. You’ll use all the evidence and strong arguments displayed in this thread, to make your case.

So please go do that. And do let us know what their response is.

In the meantime, stop bellyaching on GH.
 



Gophers_4life said:
P.E. I know you’re busy right now crafting a short essay that you’ll email to U leadership, carefully and thoughtfully demanding that they replace the turf in TCF and the practice facility with grass. You’ll use all the evidence and strong arguments displayed in this thread, to make your case.

So please go do that. And do let us know what their response is.

In the meantime, stop bellyaching on GH.
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Same joke twice in 5 posts? You really think it was that good?

BTW - where is that study that shows players prefer turf? PE found a story that indicated at least some soccer players don’t so I’m assuming you have at least that to state that football players “clearly prefer turf”. I mean, you wouldn’t just make it up would you?


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