Doogie: After loss to UW, U fan base should wave white flag on Brewster

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littlebigboy said:
WAIT GUYS & GALS!!! Because of the $$$$ in the contract buyout during the season vs. after, HE WILL NOT BE FIRED UNTIL AFTER THE SEASON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO MATTER WHAT !!!!!!!!! SO ACCEPT IT!!!!!!!!!!
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Except that that's not true. Other than that, spot on! :confused:
 

athelstan said:
Maybe you shouldn't have fired Glen Mason in the first place.
He took a crummy job that nobody else wanted and made the
Goofers respectable, but you thought that wasn't good enough.
Reep it!
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More brilliant insight from an Iowa fan. :rolleyes:
 

He should be happy Bucky did not try to score after a stupid time out

Why call a time out late in the game as they run out the clock? Bucky should have thrown deep.


BleedGopher said:
There's an old saying among Gophers fans: it's better to be dead than red.

And now, there's a new saying: Fire Brewster.

Tim Brewster is now 0-10 in trophy games as Gophers coach and 0-10 against top-25 opponents. If he's allowed to finish this season, there's a good chance he'll be 6-26 or 7-25 in Big Ten Conference games (0-8 or 1-7 this year).

That is Jim Wacker-like and, in fact, worse. Since a 17-6 win at Purdue in 2008, Brewster is 7-17.

We were told the program was "light years" ahead of when he took it over. Former coach Glen Mason should sue for libel.

In the oldest rivalry in college football, neither team had lost seven consecutive games -- until now. Four of those losses belong to Brewster.

It has come to this: after Wisconsin's 41-23 destruction of the Gophers on Saturday, Brewster and Badgers coach Bret Bielema exchanged words during the midfield handshake.

Brewster is upset, and rightfully so, that Bielema went for a two-point conversion after taking a 41-16 lead early in the fourth quarter. It was a classless move. But fours year into the Brewster era, do we really have to spend time debating the ramifications of the opposition possibly trying to run-up the score?

Here's my advice: stop them, which the Gophers did, but also stop them earlier in the game.

The Gophers are not capable of such a feat. It was a 14-9 game at halftime when Bielema told the Big Ten Network (shocking that Charissa Thompson didn't distract me), "My guess is we'll move them (in the second half)."

That's exactly what Wisconsin did, scoring touchdowns on three straight possessions.

In fact, it was comparable to last year's second half at TCF Bank Stadium, where the Badgers outgained the Gophers 302 to 11 in total yards.

The Badgers must have a great strength and conditioning coach. For six consecutive quarters, Wisconsin has physically manhandled the Gophers. Pancake blocks, etc.

Two garbage-time touchdowns from receiver Da'Jon McKnight made the score closer, and showed that offensive coordinator Jeff Horton needs to go in his direction more. Those were McKnight's only catches all-day.

The Gophers wore all-white jerseys with white helmets. It might've been symbolic of the fan base. One that is now waving the white flag on Brewster's tenure.

http://1500espn.com/sportswire/Wolf...base_should_wave_white_flag_on_Brewster100910

Go Gophers!!
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shoe said:
Why call a time out late in the game as they run out the clock? Bucky should have thrown deep.
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+1

I told my buddy I was happy that at least Brewster wasn't using time outs to extend the game. As soon as I said it he called a time out, of course. Dumb.

If I'm Burt, I throw deep on play action for the rest of the game.
 


I have a minor edit to Doogie's column: Brewster shouldn't be sued for libel. That would be if Brewster himself wrote that the team "was light years ahead," or if you sued for libel you would be suing the newspaper. (I still can't believe Brewster actually said that. Ugh.) Brewster could be sued for slander, which is the spoken word, but since it was quoted by someone else and published, it's is kind of a murkier issue. The best term for the article should be defamation: "Former coach Glen Mason should sue for defamation."

At any rate, yes, Mason should. The wheels have fallen off of this program right now and with Brewster at the helm, there's no depths too low for this season.
 

Doogie said:
The collective fan base here allows it too often... there is something to "Minnesota nice"... in many other markets, this futility would not be tolerated... many too many fans here in town just show up for the spectacle, and don't really care what the results are.
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This is Doogie's most accurate post. Ever.
 

Doogie said:
Might be punch-drunk... stream of consciousness... stupid take on my part... people are starting to not show up... reach out to Maturi, others, etc. The message has been sent to "U" administrators... hard to see any possible way that Brew is back next year... so again, dumb on my part to suggest that the fan base is soft... plenty have made their thoughts well known.
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Stand by your original statement, Doogie. It is something I have been saying for eons. The Gophers "fan base" is not on this board, so what this board is saying about firing Brewster is irrelevant. This board is a very small snippet of fans who are passionate enough to create usernames and post on an Internet site. In reality, there really is no Gopher fan base currently. There are thousands of people who show up for games that do not care if they win or lose. I would love to see all of those people become fired up enough to get angry about Brewster remaining the coach of this team but apathy set in long ago for many. I bet 5 out of 10 Gopher "fans" (anyone who actually goes out of their way to watch a game on TV or in person) just assume we're going to lose and say so what.
 

Handsome Pete said:
Stand by your original statement, Doogie. It is something I have been saying for eons. The Gophers "fan base" is not on this board, so what this board is saying about firing Brewster is irrelevant. This board is a very small snippet of fans who are passionate enough to create usernames and post on an Internet site. In reality, there really is no Gopher fan base currently. There are thousands of people who show up for games that do not care if they win or lose. I would love to see all of those people become fired up enough to get angry about Brewster remaining the coach of this team but apathy set in long ago for many. I bet 5 out of 10 Gopher "fans" (anyone who actually goes out of their way to watch a game on TV or in person) just assume we're going to lose and say so what.
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Not what I am hearing. Neighbors, co-workers, former player, fellow season-ticket holders ALL want TB replaced. I agree that there is some apathy and numbed out people. The committed fan base is small. However, this is about as unified as the board has been on an issue.

The right guy can turn it around.
 



ButchNashGuy said:
Not what I am hearing. Neighbors, co-workers, former player, fellow season-ticket holders ALL want TB replaced. I agree that there is some apathy and numbed out people. The committed fan base is small. However, this is about as unified as the board has been on an issue.

The right guy can turn it around.
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I agree that the right guy can turn it around, but it is the University's responsibility to take care of their alumni and fans. The U is going to have to take a very aggressive position toward returning football to prominence to improve fundraising and even our academic profile.
 

Handsome Pete said:
I agree that the right guy can turn it around, but it is the University's responsibility to take care of their alumni and fans. The U is going to have to take a very aggressive position toward returning football to prominence to improve fundraising and even our academic profile.
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Agree 100%.
 

emann said:
I have a minor edit to Doogie's column: Brewster shouldn't be sued for libel. That would be if Brewster himself wrote that the team "was light years ahead," or if you sued for libel you would be suing the newspaper. (I still can't believe Brewster actually said that. Ugh.) Brewster could be sued for slander, which is the spoken word, but since it was quoted by someone else and published, it's is kind of a murkier issue. The best term for the article should be defamation: "Former coach Glen Mason should sue for defamation."

At any rate, yes, Mason should. The wheels have fallen off of this program right now and with Brewster at the helm, there's no depths too low for this season.
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Fixed. Thank you.
 

Doogie, I hope you didn't think I was too harsh on you. I agree that the marginally-interested Minnesota sports fan doesn't care about Brewster one way or the other. The program barely rates a blip in the fall with the Vikings playing and the Twins in the playoff hunt for the better part of this decade.

What I was referring to is the die-hard fan. I hardly consider myself die-hard anymore as when one gets into their late 50s, being a die-hard fan can lead to being a die-easy person if you get too worked up about stuff. But I am concerned about the program and it's obvious Brewster simply isn't going to get it done. I'm not going to dance on his grave like so many know-it-alls in here seem intent on doing (and you haven't done that), but it's difficult to sugar-coat it anymore.
 



Handsome Pete said:
Stand by your original statement, Doogie. It is something I have been saying for eons. The Gophers "fan base" is not on this board, so what this board is saying about firing Brewster is irrelevant. This board is a very small snippet of fans who are passionate enough to create usernames and post on an Internet site. In reality, there really is no Gopher fan base currently. There are thousands of people who show up for games that do not care if they win or lose. I would love to see all of those people become fired up enough to get angry about Brewster remaining the coach of this team but apathy set in long ago for many. I bet 5 out of 10 Gopher "fans" (anyone who actually goes out of their way to watch a game on TV or in person) just assume we're going to lose and say so what.
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Many people are angry. I'll ask the same thing I asked Doogie. What do you expect people to do? Egg his house? Not show up to the games? If Maturi and the administration don't know that the Gopher fan base is angry right now, then we've really got some problems.
 

Handsome Pete said:
Stand by your original statement, Doogie. It is something I have been saying for eons. The Gophers "fan base" is not on this board, so what this board is saying about firing Brewster is irrelevant. This board is a very small snippet of fans who are passionate enough to create usernames and post on an Internet site. In reality, there really is no Gopher fan base currently. There are thousands of people who show up for games that do not care if they win or lose. I would love to see all of those people become fired up enough to get angry about Brewster remaining the coach of this team but apathy set in long ago for many. I bet 5 out of 10 Gopher "fans" (anyone who actually goes out of their way to watch a game on TV or in person) just assume we're going to lose and say so what.
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You have a point, but it's not entirely accurate. There is a 'Gopher fan base'. In any fanbase, there are two elemements-the 'die-hards' and the casual fans. In college sports, the die-hards can be broken down further into two groups-the regular die-hards who frequent message boards and can name the whole roster and the 'regular alumni.'

The true die-hards are what is represented on this board and are only a small % of the overall fan base. Then there are the 'passive-alumi.' These are the folks that will show up for the games every week and not care all that much if we win or lose. The difference between MN and an SEC school is that we have far fewer of these people, and in the SEC they are not passive.

Then there are the casual fans. Many college football teams could fill thier stadiums with the first two groups, therefore even when they struggle, they still sell-out. Thier pressure to make coaching changes then comes not from fear of financial loss, but from the pure outrage those two groups will express if it is not done.

In Minnesota's case, they need those casual fans to fill TCF. If the casual fans simply lose interest (which has basically already happened) you will start to see thousands of empty seats. Therefore, regardless of the 'Fire Brewster' chants, I think the U will do what it has to do with Brew. But visable pressure from the fan-base wouldn't hurt.
 

Fire Brewster chants don't mean as much as the silence of empty seats does.
 

start at the top

I agree that moving on from Weber, Brewster,and Maturi are all needed, but switching those parts around are not really going to be effective if the Board of Regents and President don't want a successful football program. I was in college at the U when Wisconsin turned their program around. I grew up in Milwaukee and everybody knew Badger football was a joke. Fun, but a joke.

The key to Wisconsin's success was that the administration decided that they were going to build the program. Particularly Donna Schalala was behind the program, and actively spoke out about building it and got Alverze and Richter hired. She knew that a successful football program would enhance the University. I remember going to a game sitting in a box for a 1991 Gopher/Badger game, and in walked Donna Schalala asking how everybody was doing decked out in a Badger red cowboy hat and dressed in red in white from head to toe enthusiastically talking up the program. I thought she was some crazy booster until a friend told me she was the president. Does anybody think that our admin does anything like that, not just the words but spirit? My guess is the Board of regents thinks they bought a stadium, that is enough for now. Their focus is just not on football, and until that changes it doesn't matte who the AD, coach, or quarterback are.

Because of this I think it might be smarter for Brewster to stay. If he is fired (and he deserves to be) then Bruininks and Maturi will be responsible for hiring the next coach. Both Bruininks and Maturi have announced their retirement in 2011. These guys have no skin in the game any more and the Regents will get a free pass on yet another coach hire with absolutely no accountability. They can all blame Brewster, Maturi, and Bruninks for another decade of bad football. I would rather have the football program as a number one question for the new president and AD. Think of it as a referendum on the state of the football program. If the Regents don't make it an issue at that level, we will all know that there is no investment in the football program, and we can just focus on Basketball, hockey, or whatever and not bother getting football season tickets anymore.
 

I don't get this attitude that the administration doesn't care about football. This stadium is pretty strong evidence that they do care: the stadium is a *HUGE* investment in football. Just because the U's president doesn't wear a maroon and gold suit doesn't mean anything. The U took a chance with Brewster that recruiting would get us around the corner. That gamble failed.

Just because Wisconsin's hires worked out and ours didn't doesn't mean that the U doesn't care about football. Do you seriously think the U was intentionally making bad hires? There is always uncertainty in hiring coaches.
 

Hey Doogie,

The record for most consecutive wins in the series is 9 wins by Minnesota back in the Bierman years. Just letting you know so you can fix your article.

7 wins in a row is a record when the Axe is at stake, but the game was played for nearly 60 years before that too.
 

I would agree that the stadium represents a significant commitment by the administration, but things can't stop there. I don't know what they are or are not doing to pump up football (or athletics of any kind). I am a member of the Alumni Association and now live in Nashville. They have my address, so you would think they might send me an e-mail saying the Gophers were going to be playing 25 miles from my house and that I should support the team. I was already planning on going, but I'm sure there are alums in the area who didn't know the Gophs opened the season at MTSU. Seems like low hanging fruit. Maybe that kind of thing is tougher than it sounds, but I doubt it.
 

I asked before what exactly did wisonsin do to show that they were committed to making football successful. It seems to me that the hiring of B.A. was also a gamble. His only head coaching experience before going to wisconsin was at the high school level. It turned out that he was a great hire, but it's not like they went out and hired a proven coach.
 

Huckleberry said:
I asked before what exactly did wisonsin do to show that they were committed to making football successful. It seems to me that the hiring of B.A. was also a gamble. His only head coaching experience before going to wisconsin was at the high school level. It turned out that he was a great hire, but it's not like they went out and hired a proven coach.
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+1 They didn't know he was going to work out. Their previous coaches hadn't done so well. We have as much chance of getting the right coach with this hire as Wisconsin had when they hired Alvarez.
 

start at the top

"I asked before what exactly did wisonsin do to show that they were committed to making football successful. It seems to me that the hiring of B.A. was also a gamble. His only head coaching experience before going to wisconsin was at the high school level. It turned out that he was a great hire, but it's not like they went out and hired a proven coach."

Well besides hiring B.A ( who was the D.C for the 1988 National champs, also had been Linebacker coach for the N.D 1987 jan 1 Cotton bowl, and had been Line Backer Coach for Iowa for ten years before that. Guess that is unproven, maybe they could have gotten Holz instead) Wisconsin also committed to, and built an entire new indoor football practice complex, the McClain Complex in 88. At the time it was a huge improvement.

So wisconsin decided build new state of the art facilities
to hire a President who cared about football,
a new AD.
a new coach with the experience of winning a national championship.

Alverez may have been a gamble but at the time he was a universe above Don Morton, but I think my earlier point was that just hiring/firing a coach doesn't matter if the Regents don't commit on all levels. I think Wisconsin proved to recruits, students, and alumni that they were committed. And the recruits, students, and alumni responded. It also helped that unlike Brewster Alverez basically sidelined all of the sub-par players from the last regime and started over. My memory was that half the old team quit after they saw that they either would not play, or it got too hard.
 

RodentRampage said:
Fire Brewster chants don't mean as much as the silence of empty seats does.
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The empty seats sure didn't do a whole lot while we were in the metrodome. There were many games where there were only 30-40,000 in the stands.
 

GophersInIowa said:
The empty seats sure didn't do a whole lot while we were in the metrodome. There were many games where there were only 30-40,000 in the stands.
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But they could just blame that on the Dome. Not anymore. I'm not suggesting an empty stadium will force their hand, but it would certainly be more noticeable than it was in the Dome.
 

Maroon said:
But they could just blame that on the Dome. Not anymore. I'm not suggesting an empty stadium will force their hand, but it would certainly be more noticeable than it was in the Dome.
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I still think it does more harm than good. Showing up to games doesn't mean you are supporting the head coach, it means you are supporting the team and the university. If we win one or two games this year, then they have to know a change needs to be made.
 

Fire Brewster. Fire Maturi. Fire Prexy Bru. Fire the guy who can't figure out how to let people into Goldy's Locker without first entering the stadium. Fire the idiot on B10 Network who believes Neal Broten is a B10 Icon. Fire the other idiots at B10 Network who think anyone from PSU, prior to their entrance into the conference, could possibly be a B10 Icon. Wait, the last two points could be the same guy. Fire the fool who prematurely questioned another GH'ers math skills only to discover his own are faulty. Wait, that last one is me. Don't fire me. Give me an extension first and then fire me.

Most of all, fire Doogie for always delving to the outer reaches of every Minnesota sports conundrum.
 

I'm not saying that we shouldn't go to games. I am simply stating the people will find something else to do on Saturdays. If I had really good reason to think that Brewster would have a breakout year in 2011, I might bite the bullet and keep him here. But it would have to be a really really good 2011. I just don't think we can afford the apathy growing. Getting back to mediocrity in 2011 wouldn't cut it.

It's like being on a leaky boat. I'm not cheering that the water is rising, simply pointing out that it is.
 

If Brewster is back next year after all that has happened now, I really think it would be hard to renew season tickets even though I love the game-day experience (tailgating, etc.). The only reason this season has been bearable is because I've approached it as Brewster's last. I've ignored the on-field product because it was irrelevant. But if the powers that be bring Brewster back, that would serve as a GIGANTIC F.U. to Gopher fans everywhere. It would basically prove that they just don't care. At all. If that happens, on principle alone, I don't see how I could continue investing any time, money or energy in a program run by people who are incompetent and/or don't give a crap. So it isn't even really about putting up with another year of Brewster. It would be that the people in charge just don't care and would just waste another season. As I see it, they would basically be telling anyone who cares to go someplace else. They're not interested.
 

Some thoughts:

1) Mase had to go.
2) Brewster need to be given the opportunity to fail with his players. You do not fire a coach (unless he misbehaves) without giving him a chance or you didn't believe your hire was correct in the first place.
3) Brewster has not shown progress and needs to go. Even a .500 record this year and I would have given him another year. Not now.
4) The U of M adminsitration has not been 100% behind a football program. MN (despite sceptics) has spent less on football than our neighbors. We fund more non-revenue sports and deliver les to the football program. The stadium is very good, other facilities still 2nd rate compared to neighbors.
5) The U Alumni do not support financially like other schools.
6) The MN football fans have been remarkedly loyal through 45 years of mediocrity and outright bad years. See Iowa basketball for comparison. Just a few bad seasons and they had to give away tickets to draw 4,000 to conference games.
7) Piling on the program right now is not the right thing to do and really only hurts the kids. Chant "Fire Brewwter" all you want. Fire off emails to Bruiniks and Maturi all you want. Chant fire Maturi all you want. However, piling on the team, student athletes, right now is classless IMO. Until I see a lack of effort, I am behind the team. Minnesota "nice" or not.
8) The program can be "resurrected" and that's the correct term to use. You need a coach that can run the program his way and that has recruiting ties to football rich areas. Hayden Fry integrated SWAC football and had a pipeline to Texas for years. Alvarez recruited for Notre Dame, especially on the east coast and brought in numerous top recruits from NJ area. Dantonio's job is twice as easy as the MN job. He can recruit 90% of his player in-state. Huge difference.
 

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