Does Gopherhole skew our perspective?

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"Beyond this, more importantly to me, I see the level of buy-in that Coach Kill continued by Coach Claeys have achieved from players such as Carter Coughlin and it is gut-wrenching to see how much the Coaching team meant to them and how devastated they are at the decision."

I wish Claeys hadn't been fired either, but I wish those players that are devastated now had listened to him when he told them he might lose his job over this. I don't buy that the report changed the minds of many. It happened in September; they're on a team where they spend several hours a day together; people are curious about incidents like this; I'm guessing many that voted to boycott knew pretty much what happened. They were pissed, maybe with good reason, about the process and with the poor communication. Demanding their 10 teammates be reinstated might seem like justice to them, but it was still a dumb move. There are consequences to what you do sometimes. We're not even talking about the consequences of lining up one after another to have sex with some pathetic woman, consensual or not.

I think Kaler and Coyle know that to, but I hope like hell they're right in calculating the consequences of their moves also. All I know is I'm really, really tired of all the drama that goes with being a Gopher fan.
 

Mulligan said:
[I wish Claeys hadn't been fired either, but I wish those players that are devastated now had listened to him when he told them he might lose his job over this. I don't buy that the report changed the minds of many. It happened in September; they're on a team where they spend several hours a day together; people are curious about incidents like this; I'm guessing many that voted to boycott knew pretty much what happened. They were pissed, maybe with good reason, about the process and with the poor communication. Demanding their 10 teammates be reinstated might seem like justice to them, but it was still a dumb move. There are consequences to what you do sometimes. We're not even talking about the consequences of lining up one after another to have sex with some pathetic woman, consensual or not.

I think Kaler and Coyle know that to, but I hope like hell they're right in calculating the consequences of their moves also. All I know is I'm really, really tired of all the drama that goes with being a Gopher fan.
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I agree with you Mulligan.

- I think the players as a whole made a dumb choice with the boycott - the probability of them making that choice would have been less if communication from/with the administration had been better.

- I think Coach Claeys took it upon himself to deflect attention away from the players to part protect them from the media gaze , knowing full well it could cost him. I'm convinced it was an honourable act from a man with integrity.

- I'm still stunned at the witch hunt that has ensued. The people that have implied that Claeys condoned sexual offences - which is most definitely not the case - are totally manipulating a wider agenda in my opinion and have themselves persecuted an innocent as a result.

Of the four parties linked to the boycott and the aftermath (administration, players, coach, mob) I hold TC least responsible and feel it is wrong he is the one losing his job.

I also agree that, consensual or not, at least one of our players should have shown the leadership and common sense to recognise that what was happening could lead to something disastrous on the night back in September. Once again though, I don't think TC can be accused of causing this or of dealing with this badly given the suspensions that followed while the criminal investigation was ongoing.

Anyway, sorry, I keep repeating myself and need to let it go. Appreciate your comments though.
 

PMWinSTP said:
So why not fire him in Sept? Why reinstate the players? The RO's were dismissed. Not altered, not narrowed. Dismissed.
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This! I'd even be willing to push it to October. Why now. Don't these departments ever work together or speak to each other?
 

This board is frequented by the most extreme of Gopher fans. As a result, opinion here on most issues will run more passionately than among the general public and more casual fans. It can also create an echo chamber effect in which a consensus opinion here gets incorrectly assumed as reflecting the fan base and population at large.
 

I don't know if Gopherhole skews our bias or if the type of person who goes on Gopherhole is just going to naturally be a different kind of person. What I mean is that the people on this board follow the team and the events surrounding the team considerably closer than casual fans and non-fans.

As far as the "on the field" product, I've heard tons of casual fans describe the Gophers this year as not very good, etc. They don't really understand the difference between college sports and pro sports. It's why people will genuinely ask questions like "DO you think Chip Kelly would be interested?" or "Why not go after Tony Dungy?". To people that follow college football, we all recognize those as absurd questions. It's not like the NFL (equity). Those types of people were obviously not going to be satisfied with Claeys as a coach. I'm not saying that you had to be a casual fan to not be excited about Coach Claeys, I am saying the casual fans weren't going to be excited about him because other programs get fun guys like Meyer and Harbaugh. They are going to be prone to impatience.

As far as the incident, I think it's just a matter of them having less information. The vast majority of the coverage has taken a particular stance and that is where they are going to go.

I'm not at all surprised that the casual fan or non-fan was happy to see Claeys dismissed.
 


Coyle doesn't seem to let anyone know ... anything, so I don't think it is so much GH as nobody knows anything.

Still sure the chatter here gets a bit crazy at times.
 

Sports_Realist said:
This board is frequented by the most extreme of Gopher fans. As a result, opinion here on most issues will run more passionately than among the general public and more casual fans. It can also create an [B]echo chamber effect in which a consensus opinion here gets incorrectly assumed as reflecting the fan base and population at large[/B].
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Yup
 

Serious question - Do most of you honestly believe that Claey's was going to take this program to the next level or at the very least maintain the level of wins the team achieved this past season? By most accounts this team underachieved this past season even when they were handed what was arguably one of the easiest schedules in years.

Depending on who is announced as the next Gopher football head coach I have a feeling that most of the players and fans who are stating they are walking away will come back and all of this will be forgotten.
 

I read both the police and university report and I have to say that put me in the "don't give Claeys an extension camp". Before the boycotts and tweet, I figured he would be back next year and given a modest extension. I really think Claeys should have kept his mouth shut and given the appearance that he agreed with the AD. But when you publicly disagree with your boss who's the AD and by extension the President and you are not Nick Saban you showed that while you may be a good football coach you aren't ready to be the football coach at P5 program in a major market. Sad but true. I think in that aspect Claeys was in over his head. Could he have grown into that? Yes he could have but he forgot that he works for the AD and not the players.
 



Gopher2017 said:
Serious question - Do most of you honestly believe that Claey's was going to take this program to the next level or at the very least maintain the level of wins the team achieved this past season? By most accounts this team underachieved this past season even when they were handed what was arguably one of the easiest schedules in years.

Depending on who is announced as the next Gopher football head coach I have a feeling that most of the players and fans who are stating they are walking away will come back and all of this will be forgotten.
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I don't think they underachieved. I think they finished almost exactly where I thought they'd finish. I don't think it's fair to say that a 9-4 U of MN team underachieved. You can say that it wasn't that impressive, but underachieving seems like quite an overstatement.

As far as your question. . .I don't know. I wouldn't pretend to know. He built a heck of a defense. His defense has been the bright spot of the entire Jerry Kill tenure (not taking anything away from Kill). We were young. I think we had improved so much as a program where we could actually debate "was this 9-4 season really that good?" I've been a Gopher fan long enough to know that is RARE around here. I've always thought for a program to be really good, it must first be good. I think the current staff had us at "good". If we had somehow plateaued, like if this was year 8 or something, I think your question makes some sense. But I can't understand how anyone could argue that he couldn't take us to the next level. How could you possibly know? The signs had looked promising.
 

Gopher2017 said:
Serious question - Do most of you honestly believe that Claey's was going to take this program to the next level or at the very least maintain the level of wins the team achieved this past season? By most accounts this team underachieved this past season even when they were handed what was arguably one of the easiest schedules in years.

Depending on who is announced as the next Gopher football head coach I have a feeling that most of the players and fans who are stating they are walking away will come back and all of this will be forgotten.
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I think he was a very good candidate to try football wise.

Nobody knows who will or won't take the team anywhere. You just go with what you can get and think might work.

Anyone who is sure that X guy would do it (that we can get) is not someone whose judgment is to be trusted.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't think they underachieved. I think they finished almost exactly where I thought they'd finish. I don't think it's fair to say that a 9-4 U of MN team underachieved. You can say that it wasn't that impressive, but underachieving seems like quite an overstatement.

As far as your question. . .I don't know. I wouldn't pretend to know. He built a heck of a defense. His defense has been the bright spot of the entire Jerry Kill tenure (not taking anything away from Kill). We were young. I think we had improved so much as a program where we could actually debate "was this 9-4 season really that good?" I've been a Gopher fan long enough to know that is RARE around here. I've always thought for a program to be really good, it must first be good. I think the current staff had us at "good". If we had somehow plateaued, like if this was year 8 or something, I think your question makes some sense. But I can't understand how anyone could argue that he couldn't take us to the next level. How could you possibly know? The signs had looked promising.
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The Gophers still finished 4th in the Big Ten West regardless of the 9 wins. If I told you at the beginning of the year that the Gophers will finish 4th in the west with this schedule, how many people would have truly been excited?
 

We're well informed, but in some ways we're too close to the situation to be objective. I agree with Maxy: the casual fan isn't stupid or without eyes and ears. They know what an empty trophy case looks like. They know what happened late against Michigan last year. They know what happened in the second half of the Penn State, Iowa and Rutgers games this year. They haven't followed recruiting closely, but they wonder if Tracy has the personality to recruit well. And then, of course, the recent scandal. It's easy for the casual fan to see all that stuff and be reactive and say, give him the heave ho. We tend to look at things more strategically, considering the merit of continuity, especially in the midst of all the recent crap.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
The Gophers still finished 4th in the Big Ten West regardless of the 9 wins. If I told you at the beginning of the year that the Gophers will finish 4th in the west with this schedule, how many people would have truly been excited?
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I guess it depends.

If you told me we would have gone 9-4 with a win in the Holiday Bowl, I would have called it a success. I am a fan, so there were 13 times this year that I got to watch the Gopher football team, and 9 of the times we won. If Nebraska would have lost a couple other games this year (making us 3rd instead of 4th), I don't know how much that would have changed my experience as a fan.

We went 9-4 and won the Holiday Bowl, if you would have told me that and told me but we finished 4th in the Big 10 West, I don't think anyone would have considered it an underachievement.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I guess it depends.

If you told me we would have gone 9-4 with a win in the Holiday Bowl, I would have called it a success. I am a fan, so there were 13 times this year that I got to watch the Gopher football team, and 9 of the times we won. If Nebraska would have lost a couple other games this year (making us 3rd instead of 4th), I don't know how much that would have changed my experience as a fan.

We went 9-4 and won the Holiday Bowl, if you would have told me that and told me but we finished 4th in the Big 10 West, I don't think anyone would have considered it an underachievement.
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I think you also have to frame it as a HC's first year too... I don't mind saying TC benefited from being a part of the previous coaching staff, but still gotta give him time as far as evaluations goes.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I guess it depends.

If you told me we would have gone 9-4 with a win in the Holiday Bowl, I would have called it a success. I am a fan, so there were 13 times this year that I got to watch the Gopher football team, and 9 of the times we won. If Nebraska would have lost a couple other games this year (making us 3rd instead of 4th), I don't know how much that would have changed my experience as a fan.

We went 9-4 and won the Holiday Bowl, if you would have told me that and told me but we finished 4th in the Big 10 West, I don't think anyone would have considered it an underachievement.
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9-4 doesn't excite me nor did Claeys. I know as a Gopher fan a record of 9-4 should excite me but it didn't/doesn't. I was one that never warmed to Claeys as HC so perhaps that's why I'm feeling rather blah about the season...?? I have other thoughts on how Claeys handled the entire "boycott" but it will come off as being biased so I'll refrain from spewing my thoughts - and it could very well be biased.

Looking forward to seeing what will happen.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I guess it depends.

If you told me we would have gone 9-4 with a win in the Holiday Bowl, I would have called it a success. I am a fan, so there were 13 times this year that I got to watch the Gopher football team, and 9 of the times we won. If Nebraska would have lost a couple other games this year (making us 3rd instead of 4th), I don't know how much that would have changed my experience as a fan.

We went 9-4 and won the Holiday Bowl, if you would have told me that and told me but we finished 4th in the Big 10 West, I don't think anyone would have considered it an underachievement.
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I don't disagree with most of what you wrote except that a 4th place in the west is an underachievement. Doesn't it get old finishing 4th or lower every year, clearly a step behind Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska? They can and should compete with those schools. The only year they finished higher than 4th in the West in the Kill/Claeys era was 2014. They had the opportunity to beat Nebraska, Iowa, and Wisconsin again this year and blew it.

Those continued backbreaking defeats is what is hurting attendance more than anything. Outside of the die hard fans on here or who buy season tickets, to the causal fan it's just same old Gophers year in and year out regardless of the 9 wins.
 


Gopher2017 said:
9-4 doesn't excite me nor did Claeys. I know as a Gopher fan a record of 9-4 should excite me but it didn't/doesn't. I was one that never warmed to Claeys as HC so perhaps that's why I'm feeling rather blah about the season...?? I have other thoughts on how Claeys handled the entire "boycott" but it will come off as being biased so I'll refrain from spewing my thoughts - and it could very well be biased.

Looking forward to seeing what will happen.
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How many wins is acceptable for the U of MN football team?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
How many wins is acceptable for the U of MN football team?
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Great question. I will say that your question reads to me that we should simply be happy with 9-4 because we're the U of M. Complacent, really. Maybe not your intention but that's how I read it. My apologies if that's not how you wrote it.

Anyway; again, perhaps because I'm not a Claeys fan my opinion is clouded but with the schedule the team just finished two losses should have been the max (Nebraska and Wisky). This team went 9-4 with a very easy schedule and I highly doubt Claeys would have increased the win total with an increasingly more difficult schedule next season. We'll never know.
 

Ralph said:
I read both the police and university report and I have to say that put me in the "don't give Claeys an extension camp". Before the boycotts and tweet, I figured he would be back next year and given a modest extension. I really think Claeys should have kept his mouth shut and given the appearance that he agreed with the AD. But when you publicly disagree with your boss who's the AD and by extension the President and you are not Nick Saban you showed that while you may be a good football coach you aren't ready to beas the football coach at P5 program in a major market. Sad but true. I think in that aspect Claeys was in over his head. Could he have grown into that? Yes he could have but he forgot that he works for the AD and not the players.
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Maybe Claeys was more intuitive than given he is being given credit for. Maybe he knew the fix was in and decided to back his players. Missouri's coach did the same over a national controversy knowing he had cancer.
 

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