Does Gopherhole skew our perspective?

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Frank Grimey Grimes

Frank Grimey Grimes

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So when I heard the news today, I was honestly completely shocked and angry. I thought for sure that Claeys would keep his job and did a double take when I read the headline. I stepped back and wondered why I felt that as many of my friends(specifically on FB) were quite pleased with the news. My point being, were we(Gopherhole) in the minority in our support of Claeys?
 

Frank Grimey Grimes said:
So when I heard the news today, I was honestly completely shocked and angry. I thought for sure that Claeys would keep his job and did a double take when I read the headline. I stepped back and wondered why I felt that as many of my friends(specifically on FB) were quite pleased with the news. My point being, were we(Gopherhole) in the minority in our support of Claeys?
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Yes.

The only question is how many of those against him COULD become fans that attend games rather than just occasionally watch on tv
 

Yep, there is a huge gap between how people here perceive wider fan reaction will be versus how it actually is. People seem to be convinced that the only people pushing for Claeys to be gone are
feminists who celebrate winter solstice and talk about "herstory" when the truth is that a large number of Minnesota sports fans think the initial incident and then the player boycott are justifiable reasons for Claeys to be fired.
 

There are also a large group of casual fans who think he is an average football coach
 



Most Minnesotans have close to zero knowledge of the facts of the case. They hear or read rape and their Pavlovian response is to pick up the pitchfork.

Look at GG, he apparently hasn't read anything in the report and he's posting up and down these forums that the kids are rapists. Pathetic and sad that supposed adults behave this way.

Some people just like chaos and reading about it. Human nature.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Most Minnesotans have close to zero knowledge of the facts of the case. They hear or read rape and their Pavlovian response is to pick up the pitchfork.

Look at GG, he apparently hasn't read anything in the report and he's posting up and down these forums that the kids are rapists. Pathetic and sad that supposed adults behave this way.

Some people just like chaos and reading about it. Human nature.
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Sure, if you completely ignore the fact that I've explicitly stated some of the players were punished for things besides taking part in an alleged sexual assault...
 

Frankey, yes. Most everyone I've talked to about this--admittedly most of them are casual fans, but fans nonetheless--were pretty shocked by the sexual escapades that kicked things off and were probably madder at the players than anything else. Of course, most of these people are old like me so take the reaction with a grain of salt. For the record, I was hoping Claeys would hold on.
 

GG Allen said:
Sure, if you completely ignore the fact that I've explicitly stated some of the players were punished for things besides taking part in an alleged sexual assault...
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Expulsions and year long suspensions? Your reasoning skills are as poor as your reading comprehension re: the report.

Theses kids have been found guilty of nothing at this point in time and it is wrong of you to say so.
 



GG Allen said:
Yep, there is a huge gap between how people here perceive wider fan reaction will be versus how it actually is.
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How do you know for sure what the wider fan reaction is? Social media appears to be pretty split from what I can see.
 


50PoundHead said:
Frankey, yes. Most everyone I've talked to about this--admittedly most of them are casual fans, but fans nonetheless--were pretty shocked by the sexual escapades that kicked things off and were probably madder at the players than anything else. Of course, most of these people are old like me so take the reaction with a grain of salt. For the record, I was hoping Claeys would hold on.
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So why not fire him in Sept? Why reinstate the players? The RO's were dismissed. Not altered, not narrowed. Dismissed.
 

PMWinSTP said:
So why not fire him in Sept? Why reinstate the players? The RO's were dismissed. Not altered, not narrowed. Dismissed.
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I would have fired him in September. To me it is clear they didn't want him, why let him win 9 games and make it harder to fire him.
 



Some guy said:
I would have fired him in September. To me it is clear they didn't want him, why let him win 9 games and make it harder to fire him.
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Says a lot more about the leadership Coyle and Kaler than Claeys. He actually tried to make the best out of a bad situation. They made a bad situation worse...even comical.
 

Yes. Not one friend or coworker supported Claeys. They are Gopher fans, watch games, go from time to time, and still didn't like him as HC.

The only friends in support of Claeys are the ones that went to the U, had season tickets, at one point and follow everything. We're biased by our investment.

Others feel we can be the best and won't settle or accept less. They see:

No rival trophies
No ranking
No recruiting
Bad game management
Never meeting expectations


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


GophersInIowa said:
So if that is true then how do you and GG Allen know what the true fan reaction is to this?
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I don't. I'd guess gg Allen doesn't either

I just said GH skews your perspective and I say that based on my talkings with casual gopher fans who see this season as blah and not much of a success. I would guess it is close to an even split on Claeys like you said with nothing to back it up. Definitely large groups that think both ways.

I was more just saying in general I don't trust social media. Like when a 35 person protest gets turned into the next march on washington
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Yes. Not one friend or coworker supported Claeys. They are Gopher fans, watch games, go from time to time, and still didn't like him as HC.

The only friends in support of Claeys are the ones that went to the U, had season tickets, at one point and follow everything. We're biased by our investment.

Others feel we can be the best and won't settle or accept less. They see:

No rival trophies
No ranking
No recruiting
Bad game management
Never meeting expectations


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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They're going to love it when the defense goes in the ****ter.
 

Frank Grimey Grimes said:
So when I heard the news today, I was honestly completely shocked and angry. I thought for sure that Claeys would keep his job and did a double take when I read the headline. I stepped back and wondered why I felt that as many of my friends(specifically on FB) were quite pleased with the news. My point being, were we(Gopherhole) in the minority in our support of Claeys?
Click to expand...

You mean you think there were many Minnesotans out there who when they heard about these players having sex with a woman they were angry about it? That would make sense. That there were people that as soon as they found out it was 10 black guys having sex with a white woman, consensual or not, they went ballistic and wanted them all gone and that damn coach that defended them gone too?

No, that doesn't seem surprising either.
 

PMWinSTP said:
So why not fire him in Sept? Why reinstate the players? The RO's were dismissed. Not altered, not narrowed. Dismissed.
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These fans probably wanted him gone then. I think the splash created by the EOAA report just heightened their disdain. I just think there is a tremendous amount of fan fatigue in this town as it relates to the Gophers and it's been going on since the Bill Musselman era and the brawl against Ohio State. It's been one thing after another. For people my age who follow the Gophers casually, it's been one misstep after another.

From my perspective, I think our Board of Regents attempts to get too involved in the everyday operations of the U and that chases prospective administrators away. In my time watching the U closely (I went to grad school there) McGrath and Yudof were the only impressive Presidents.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
They're going to love it when the defense goes in the ****ter.
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That's been my only reason to keeping him is defense, but in the end that is short sighted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


Pompous Elitist said:
Expulsions and year long suspensions? Your reasoning skills are as poor as your reading comprehension re: the report.

Theses kids have been found guilty of nothing at this point in time and it is wrong of you to say so.
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The report clearly states that several of the accused were found to likely have committed sexual harassment and not assault. Sorry that makes you so angry.
 

GG Allen said:
The report clearly states that several of the accused were found to likely have committed sexual harassment and not assault. Sorry that makes you so angry.
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The police report said that too?
 

Iceland12 said:
The police report said that too?
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Why would the police be concerned with sexual harassment? It's generally not a criminal offense, however it is against the student code of conduct.
 

GG Allen said:
The report clearly states that several of the accused were found to likely have committed sexual harassment and not assault. Sorry that makes you so angry.
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A report is not a conviction you idiot.
 

GG Allen said:
Why would the police be concerned with sexual harassment? It's generally not a criminal offense, however it is against the student code of conduct.
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Sexual harassment is against the law under both federal and Minnesota law though probably not applicable here. Not a lawyer.

Nope. Badly explained by me but does information listed in the police report of their investigation, support your view that all 10 players are guilty of conduct "against the student code of conduct"?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
A report is not a conviction you idiot.
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I never said it was...however they were found to have most likely violated the student code of conduct and because of the nature of the alleged incident the University followed a procedure proscribed by federal law. It's not just something the University could ignore.

Iceland12 said:
Sexual harassment is against the law under both federal and Minnesota law though probably not applicable here. Not a lawyer.

Nope. Badly explained by me but does information listed in the police report of their investigation, support your view that all 10 players are guilty of conduct "against the student code of conduct"?
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From a civil law standpoint sexual harassment is indeed illegal in many circumstances, but in terms of criminal law, it generally has to escalate to sexual assault to become a criminal case. Hence no criminal charges against Norwood Teague.

Also why it doesn't really matter what the police report shows because they weren't looking to see if sexual harassment was committed. And I don't think the report did anything to prove that it didn't happen. And I've never stated that I think the players are guilty or not guilty. Honestly, it doesn't matter what I think. But my best guess is that criminal charges would never stick but they likely did violate the student code of conduct since what constitutes a violation of the student code can be interpreted very broadly.

And for what it's worth, I generally don't think schools should be tasked with these investigations as they are poorly equipped to do so, there a significant conflict of interest issues and there is incentive for them to suppress incidents that could damage their reputation. However, federal law disagrees with me so I'm not going to get angry at the administration for doing their job.

And while the penalties may seem harsh given the lower standard of guilt necessary, I know people who were kicked out of schools for possession of weed or other relatively minor infractions. If the allegations are remotely true this is just a slap on the wrist.
 


Although I follow news on Twitter, Gopherhole is pretty much my main source of information on football at the University of Minnesota - but I don't think it skews my perspective. There are always voices for and against - some opinions I agree with and others I don't. I feel there is always access to enough information through Gopherhole to be able to form an objective perspective.

What stings me the most about the Coach Claeys' firing is that, in trying to be objective, however I look at it, it still seems so unjust to me. My first year as a dedicated fan/follower was the last year of Brewster. Since then so much has changed for the better:

- Academic performance of players has gone from well-below national average to well above
- We have gone from a 3-9 team to a 9-4 team with the four losses all being competitive
- I have seen the coaching team take a strong moral stance even when it has hurt the athletic ability of the program (the dismissal of D. Jones for stealing a phone as one example)

Beyond this, more importantly to me, I see the level of buy-in that Coach Kill continued by Coach Claeys have achieved from players such as Carter Coughlin and it is gut-wrenching to see how much the Coaching team meant to them and how devastated they are at the decision. I don't think Gopehrhole has skewed my perspective on that.

Anyway, I've shared my thoughts and have started to rant. I guess only time will tell if I'm wrong about how bad the decision is. Hopefully I will see you all at the Rose Bowl in 2021... not booking my flights and hotel just yet though.
 

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