Does Ben Johnson have any defenders left?

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Sane24 said:
Because his detractors view the world through a glass belly-button which is required when your head is up your ass!
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Lol no... We base our opinions upon the fact that in his tenure here he's been horseshit. And now we're back to year 0... And as the evidence has shown... He can't coach up shit
 

I don't know if it makes me a defender, but I think he earned a 4th year.

I probably would bet a lot of money on us having a bad year but I would have hammered the under if the O/U on Big 10 wins last year was 9.

I'm not an excuse machine. I don't think the portal only impacts us and I think you are your record so I am 100% behind moving on if next year is a dud. I kind of expect it to be. But I think last year earned a 4th year and next year is NCAA tournament or bust.
 


Off-GridTNgopher said:
Lol no... We base our opinions upon the fact that in his tenure here he's been horseshit. And now we're back to year 0... And as the evidence has shown... He can't coach up shit
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None of you have any legitimate visibility to evaluate his coaching skills except W-L and even that measurement was positive this past season in which he actually had players which he had a chance to develop.
 

Sane24 said:
None of you have any legitimate visibility to evaluate his coaching skills except W-L and even that measurement was positive this past season in which he actually had players which he had a chance to develop.
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Yup he beat up on the bottom four.. which our record tied for... However since we did beat them we finished outside of weakling wed... Congrats!
 







I am a defender because I have been a successful coach since 1960 (when I was 15yrs-old) and I was MOST successful when I had the best players. Judging coaches by W-L only is inaccurate because the players usually determine W-L and a good coach with bad players will generally not have a good W-L.
 

Sane24 said:
I am a defender because I have been a successful coach since 1960 (when I was 15yrs-old) and I was MOST successful when I had the best players. Judging coaches by W-L only is inaccurate because the players usually determine W-L and a good coach with bad players will generally not have a good W-L.
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In college .. you select your players... So you win by them and loose by them... Regardless they are your players

Ben looses with HIS players
 



Give him another year with HIS players to see if he can make the same improvement over this season as he did over last season. (One win up to 10 wins)
At least you will be using two data points instead of just one data point.
 


Every year he had to replace nearly his entire team from scratch until this past season.
This season he had several returners plus 2 transfers and one excellent Freshman.
 

He never had that many returners in his first two years.
 



Sane24 said:
I am a defender because I have been a successful coach since 1960 (when I was 15yrs-old) and I was MOST successful when I had the best players. Judging coaches by W-L only is inaccurate because the players usually determine W-L and a good coach with bad players will generally not have a good W-L.
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I coached 13 seasons of baseball. Results based goals (like W/L) are unequivocally a horrible focus. You’ll end up winning less.

I think every coach worth his salt either knows this, or learns it very quickly.

It’s very difficult to see through the emotional lens of a fan whether a coach is good/bad.

We don’t have context, and have to squint and try to recall markers on progress.

This should not detract from criticism, nor refrain from demanding winning. That’s what everyone aspires towards. It’s just criticism needs to be relative. Emotions need to be checked, so generally criticism is actually relevant.

That is my criticism of the criticism, usually leveled at Ben; It offen comes off as anger that a preferred candidate didn’t get hired. So every piece of information coddles that rage. Essentially, there is a lot of garbage that feeds off itself. Makes it hard to know whether I’m being pollyanna or there is schematic malpractice. The only plus it I’ve watched Thorson coached teams since he started and CBJs entire career from HS till now; so I have a little additional info to draw from
 


Off-GridTNgopher said:
And yes I base my opinion on the only thing that matters... Wins and losses... And bens lost a ton
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What matters most is Ben's coaching skills and personality and I prefer to trust whomever interviewed him and watched him up-close coach his team in games and practices. Wins and losses is an inexact measurement of coaching skills.
 

I like Ben Johnson as a person. he comes off like a decent guy - the kind of person who would be fun to sit down with and shoot the sh*t.

and when they had that "miked-up" game on TV, I thought he was doing a decent job of in-game coaching and giving direction to his players.

the questions are more recruiting and roster management. the recruiting side - especially now - gets tied into NIL, but it's still the job of the coach to identify athletes and sell them on your school. and I would have to say there have been questionable choices in talent evaluation and roster management.

so for me right now, I don't think Ben is a great coach, but I also don't think he's a terrible coach - at least not as terrible as some of his critics make him out to be.
 

Off-GridTNgopher said:
Lol no... We base our opinions upon the fact that in his tenure here he's been horseshit. And now we're back to year 0... And as the evidence has shown... He can't coach up shit
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I'll be a defender. If he can't coach $hit, how come Hawkins went from TO prone early in the year to one of the better PG in the BIG.
 

Let him coach at the U forever. It is fairly clear he is not responsible for wins and losses.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't know if it makes me a defender, but I think he earned a 4th year.

I probably would bet a lot of money on us having a bad year but I would have hammered the under if the O/U on Big 10 wins last year was 9.

I'm not an excuse machine. I don't think the portal only impacts us and I think you are your record so I am 100% behind moving on if next year is a dud. I kind of expect it to be. But I think last year earned a 4th year and next year is NCAA tournament or bust.
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Well said. Majority seemed to feel the team showed enough improvement in year three to earn a year 4. If Coyle fired Johnson today you would have a hard time finding anyone that would be strongly against the move but since that seems highly unlikely to happen, it is what it is.
 

Sane24 said:
I am a defender because I have been a successful coach since 1960 (when I was 15yrs-old) and I was MOST successful when I had the best players. Judging coaches by W-L only is inaccurate because the players usually determine W-L and a good coach with bad players will generally not have a good W-L.
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Disagree wholeheartedly if we are talking high school. There are not too many good coaches...most coaches win more than they lose if they have good players. Good coaches still win with bad players...maybe not conference championships but top 4.
And if they are at the same place for several years they develop feeder programs so they always have decent players.
 

Agreed, Ben's been bad overall. But he has earned the 4th year. He's piecing together a roster again this year. I think it'll be his best yet due to experience. Still more likely than not we don't dance but we'll see. If we dance, great. If we don't, he gone.
 


Off-GridTNgopher said:
Yup he beat up on the bottom four.. which our record tied for... However since we did beat them we finished outside of weakling wed... Congrats!
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The bar was on the ground but he cleared it. Even had a couple inches to spare.
 

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