Do Players Improve Under Tubby Smith?

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zambam said:
The point of the thread was to end the argument about players improving. Only things "anti-Tubby" are about how stats don't tell the whole story.
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I think you need to read posts before I called it out again.
 

Parski1 said:
I think you need to read posts before I called it out again.
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You are joking right? This is the least Anti Tubby thread that gopherhole has had in months. I get that you search for anti tubby statements but calling this thread anti tubby is a joke
 


Basically all of those players improved since their first year under Tubby, but you'd expect any player to improve since his first year simply due to growing older, adjusting to the pressure, playing a ton of bball, lifting weights, etc. The problem is that the majority haven't improved to the extent that most people would hope for.
 

underground629 said:
Basically all of those players improved since their first year under Tubby, but you'd expect any player to improve since his first year simply due to growing older, adjusting to the pressure, playing a ton of bball, lifting weights, etc. The problem is that the majority haven't improved to the extent that most people would hope for.
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I think one thing everyone is forgetting here is that the personnel in this program have not been very stable. And that may or may not reflect on Tubby. What was he really supposed to do in the Royce White situation? And what was he supposed to do when Nolen was failing classes? On the other hand, did he treat Devoe Joseph and Cobbs right? What about Armelin this year, or Colton Iverson years past?

Regardless of who's at fault or not at fault, the bottom line is that most successful teams - assuming they are not a team chock full of top (blue-chip, paid) talent - have consistency in personnel. Changing out 3-4 starters each and every year doesn't typically lend itself to success.

On the other hand, I've always railed against Tubby's inexplicable tendency to swap 5 for 5. Yuck. Basketball rarely works well with that method, and I think that system bothers the top players because they lose playing time for no fault of their own. Swaps should be made for two main reasons: (1) catch a breather, (2) regroup after a short series of bad play. Otherwise, you're just swapping for the sake of swapping, and true teamwork goes out the window.

In the end, player consistency is important. Whether Tubby's fault or not, there is little in this program, and thus little success.
 

cncmin said:
I think one thing everyone is forgetting here is that the personnel in this program have not been very stable. And that may or may not reflect on Tubby. What was he really supposed to do in the Royce White situation? And what was he supposed to do when Nolen was failing classes? On the other hand, did he treat Devoe Joseph and Cobbs right? What about Armelin this year, or Colton Iverson years past?

Regardless of who's at fault or not at fault, the bottom line is that most successful teams - assuming they are not a team chock full of top (blue-chip, paid) talent - have consistency in personnel. Changing out 3-4 starters each and every year doesn't typically lend itself to success.

On the other hand, I've always railed against Tubby's inexplicable tendency to swap 5 for 5. Yuck. Basketball rarely works well with that method, and I think that system bothers the top players because they lose playing time for no fault of their own. Swaps should be made for two main reasons: (1) catch a breather, (2) regroup after a short series of bad play. Otherwise, you're just swapping for the sake of swapping, and true teamwork goes out the window.

In the end, player consistency is important. Whether Tubby's fault or not, there is little in this program, and thus little success.
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Good points.
 






No, he can not be 27th overall. His team does not rank at 27th or anywhere close to it. We are not a top 68 team. So, that statistic is worthless in the smell test. It does not conform to realilty in wins and loses. The stats do not reflect whether we were doing a run and gun, a slow down control game plan or whatnot. It only speaks to growth in a statistical category, with no contextual filtering. If we played an uptempo game, we should only show stats for uptempo strategies being compared. If we did slow down strategies, we should only compare them to similar games and stats. Lumping all games into a general category is pointless. It shows nothing.
 

Dean S said:
No, he can not be 27th overall. His team does not rank at 27th or anywhere close to it. We are not a top 68 team. So, that statistic is worthless in the smell test. It does not conform to realilty in wins and loses. The stats do not reflect whether we were doing a run and gun, a slow down control game plan or whatnot. It only speaks to growth in a statistical category, with no contextual filtering. If we played an uptempo game, we should only show stats for uptempo strategies being compared. If we did slow down strategies, we should only compare them to similar games and stats. Lumping all games into a general category is pointless. It shows nothing.
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You are correct Dean. This falls under the "proof is in the pudding" category.
 



Added the numbers for the 2011-2012 season!

Rodney and Austin made the biggest jump, not surprisingly. Ralph also regressed from his freshman year, also not a surprise.

Maverick actually improved overall increasing his assists, steals, blocks, rebounds, and turnovers. I guess when you are not that great your freshman year, it is tough to do much worse your sophomore year. Chip seemed to regress a bit.
 

scher215 said:
Maverick actually improved overall increasing his assists, steals, blocks, rebounds, and turnovers.
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If Mav could have played at this years level when Al went down, Blake could have stayed at the SG and we would have limped into the NCAA Tourney.

He was terrible last year, improved a lot this season. The negative: He's still a 3rd string PG at best.
 

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