Do people realize that Wisconsin is younger than we are?

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Stan

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I know we all like to say how young we are, but Wisconsin has only 9 seniors on scholarship, which is the third lowest among FBS teams with only Indiana, Rice and Colorado having fewer seniors on scholarship.
 

Apples and oranges. They have a Heisman finalist and several key seniors on their roster. They've also had their program in place with Alvarez and his picked successor for 20 years.

Kill's in the middle of his 2nd season. Even our seniors are sophomores at running his system.
 

Stan said:
I know we all like to say how young we are, but Wisconsin has only 9 seniors on scholarship, which is the third lowest among FBS teams with only Indiana, Rice and Colorado having fewer seniors on scholarship.
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What is your point? That the Gophers should be better or equal to Wisconsin this year?

We've taken a slight step up so far, even with the youth - which is progress.
Because of the youth, Wisconsin took a step back, especially early in the season - which is totally understandable.

Both seem about on par to me.
 

Depends how you look at it. A greater number of the players that contribute are freshman and sophomores for the Gophers.
 




Offensive/Defensive Line Starters

Wisconsin - 7 upperclassmen plus 2 underclassmen (RS sophomores)

Minnesota - 3 upperclassmen plus 6 underclassmen
 


Kill has pared back the 'young' talk so the topic is moot. we are passed it
 



Maximus said:
Offensive/Defensive Line Starters

Wisconsin - 7 upperclassmen plus 2 underclassmen (RS sophomores)

Minnesota - 3 upperclassmen plus 6 underclassmen
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Doesn't look like a debate to me.
 


Maximus said:
Offensive/Defensive Line Starters

Wisconsin - 7 upperclassmen plus 2 underclassmen (RS sophomores)

Minnesota - 3 upperclassmen plus 6 underclassmen
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This is the reality of our situation. Unfortunately some of our impatient fans believe that (1.) coach Kill should make them older now and (2.) it is just an excuse. The reality is that it DOES takes time for the players to get older and to mature. Making demands does absolutely nothing to improve the program. All it does it create a great deal of negativity around the program.

Even Alvarez didn't start winning until his fourth year at Wisconsin so why don't we just calm down and give them time to build a program.
 

As pointed out by Maximus, we're young where it counts: the OL & DL.

Upperclassmen are nice at the skill positions, but you can get away with it a bit more.
 



Idiotic post of the week.

Wisky doesn't start a SINGLE player younger than a Junior on their defense (according to the latest Rivals depth chart). And that's not factoring in how many players Wisky is playing that are upperclassmen AND have redshirted.

Before Wagner got hurt, they started two Juniors and a Senior on the O-Line. I would take that in a HEARTBEAT over the toddlers that the Gophers have been running out for a starting O-Line.
 

An experienced OL doesn't guarantee a successful season..

Think back to 2008 when Wynn, Burris, Alford, Bunders when they were RFR & Sophs. The OL was awful.

It wasn't much better in 2010 when they were Jrs & Sr.s plus Sr.s Carufel and Wills.

E. Olson has seen the field since his Frosh year. How much improvement has he shown? Injuries have held him back but does he have the ability to be one of the top LT's in the BIG? Same with the rest of our "young" OL.

Many here take it for granted that young automatically translates into good or very good with experience. At this point, I am not ready to crown any on them with ALL BIG selections or even honorable mention. Time will tell.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Idiotic post of the week.

Wisky doesn't start a SINGLE player younger than a Junior on their defense (according to the latest Rivals depth chart). And that's not factoring in how many players Wisky is playing that are upperclassmen AND have redshirted.

Before Wagner got hurt, they started two Juniors and a Senior on the O-Line. I would take that in a HEARTBEAT over the toddlers that the Gophers have been running out for a starting O-Line.
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I'm not so sure as I scan the thread titles. Our "fans" have been pretty busy. It is worthy of nomination.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
An experienced OL doesn't guarantee a successful season..

Think back to 2008 when Wynn, Burris, Alford, Bunders when they were RFR & Sophs. The OL was awful.

It wasn't much better in 2010 when they were Jrs & Sr.s plus Sr.s Carufel and Wills.

Many here take it for granted that young automatically translates into good or very good with experience. At this point, I am not ready to crown any on them with ALL BIG selections or even honorable mention. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

2010 was no prize for sure....but rushing went from 103.8 to 135.2. Passing 219.1 to 226.1. Total offense went from 322.9 to 361.3. Sacks given up were 30 in 2008 to 17 in 2010.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
An experienced OL doesn't guarantee a successful season..

Think back to 2008 when Wynn, Burris, Alford, Bunders when they were RFR & Sophs. The OL was awful.

It wasn't much better in 2010 when they were Jrs & Sr.s plus Sr.s Carufel and Wills.

E. Olson has seen the field since his Frosh year. How much improvement has he shown? Injuries have held him back but does he have the ability to be one of the top LT's in the BIG? Same with the rest of our "young" OL.

Many here take it for granted that young automatically translates into good or very good with experience. At this point, I am not ready to crown any on them with ALL BIG selections or even honorable mention. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

That is the general conclusion for many around here. It is also taken for granted that this translates into a better win and loss record which also isn't a given.
 

Killjoy said:
This is the reality of our situation. Unfortunately some of our impatient fans believe that (1.) coach Kill should make them older now and (2.) it is just an excuse. The reality is that it DOES takes time for the player to get older and to mature. Making demands does absolutely nothing to improve the program. All it does it create a great deal of negativity around the program.

Even Alvarez didn't start winning until his fourth year at Wisconsin so why don't we just calm down and give them time to build a program.
Click to expand...

This times a 1,000. My God, people need to relax and just let Kill do his thing. Considering the fact that we are have 4 wins over last year's 3, that should already be an improvement. Plus, we have five more games left. Calm down and relax. Please! Quit acting like the Gophers are suppose to be some kind of experienced, matured team. No. They're young, and it's not an excuse. The people that create the negativity around the program are the cancer that is killing Gopher football. At this rate, we will be wanting to have Kill fired by the end of season, and thus restart the cycle of building a program.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
An experienced OL doesn't guarantee a successful season..

Think back to 2008 when Wynn, Burris, Alford, Bunders when they were RFR & Sophs. The OL was awful.

It wasn't much better in 2010 when they were Jrs & Sr.s plus Sr.s Carufel and Wills.

E. Olson has seen the field since his Frosh year. How much improvement has he shown? Injuries have held him back but does he have the ability to be one of the top LT's in the BIG? Same with the rest of our "young" OL.

Many here take it for granted that young automatically translates into good or very good with experience. At this point, I am not ready to crown any on them with ALL BIG selections or even honorable mention. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

Right now, I'll take Eddie O at 6'-7, 300 over Mark Lenkiewicz at 6'-5, 270.

At least with experience, you can more easily hide some deficiency in talent. Right now, they're struggling almost as much with continuity as they are with youth/inexperience. Due to injuries, just way too much shuffling around the last 3-4 games. I swear I see a different 5 people up front almost every quarter of the last several games.
 


I think the fundamental question is how much better is a 3rd year player who has played in 20 games to one who has played in 5. Every team in the Big Ten has lots of freshmen and sophomores. The difference is the Gophers are playing them.

It's easy to list include all the juniors on the Badgers' lines and say that bodes well for Minnesota relative to them in the future, but a lot of those guys weren't playing last year I would assume. I just checked and Wisconsin had 2 OLs drafted, another one graduate, and 2 DLs graduate.

So in a couple of years, when Wisconsin's juniors and redshirt juniors are playing Minnesota's juniors, will the the fact that Minnesota's players have been in more games be an advantage? It would seem the answer would be yes, but clearly teams can succeed with experienced players who are new starters.
 

scools12 said:


That is the general conclusion for many around here. It is also taken for granted that this translates into a better win and loss record which also isn't a given.
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I don't see a whole lot of people thinking it's a guarantee. But what we do know is that generally players become better as they both get more experience and get older.
 

MorningCalmBadger said:
That's debatable. To say the least...
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I'd love to debate it with you. The proof on my end:

QB
MN FR/SO: ATT - 70%, YDS - 67%, Passing TD - 61%
WI FR/SO: ATT - 59%, YDS - 67%, Passing TD - 63%

Rush Attempts
MN FR/SO: CAR - 72%, YDS - 59%, TD - 29%
WI FR/SO: CAR - 12%, YDS - 15%, TD - 5%

Receptions
MN FR/SO: REC - 53%, YDS - 44%, TD - 31%
WI FR/SO: REC - 29%, YDS - 23%, TD - 0%

OL Starts
MN FR/SO: 74%
WI FR/SO: 30%

Defense
MN FR/SO: TKL - 29%, Sack - 20%, Break ups - 40%, INT - 43%
WI FR/SO: TKL - 17%, Sack 9%, Break ups - 12%, INT - 0%

I know there is no perfect way to make the comparison, but Minnesota gets more contribution from their Freshman and Sophomores in just about every area other than QB and it's not even close.

Please feel free to add your side of the debate.
 


Bayfieldgopher said:
An experienced OL doesn't guarantee a successful season..

Think back to 2008 when Wynn, Burris, Alford, Bunders when they were RFR & Sophs. The OL was awful.

It wasn't much better in 2010 when they were Jrs & Sr.s plus Sr.s Carufel and Wills.

E. Olson has seen the field since his Frosh year. How much improvement has he shown? Injuries have held him back but does he have the ability to be one of the top LT's in the BIG? Same with the rest of our "young" OL.

Many here take it for granted that young automatically translates into good or very good with experience. At this point, I am not ready to crown any on them with ALL BIG selections or even honorable mention. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

Wiser words were never spoken.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I don't see a whole lot of people thinking it's a guarantee. But what we do know is that generally players become better as they both get more experience and get older.
Click to expand...

+1 Bravo, somebody gets it!
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'd love to debate it with you. The proof on my end:

QB
MN FR/SO: ATT - 70%, YDS - 67%, Passing TD - 61%
WI FR/SO: ATT - 59%, YDS - 67%, Passing TD - 63%

Rush Attempts
MN FR/SO: CAR - 72%, YDS - 59%, TD - 29%
WI FR/SO: CAR - 12%, YDS - 15%, TD - 5%

Receptions
MN FR/SO: REC - 53%, YDS - 44%, TD - 31%
WI FR/SO: REC - 29%, YDS - 23%, TD - 0%

OL Starts
MN FR/SO: 74%
WI FR/SO: 30%

Defense
MN FR/SO: TKL - 29%, Sack - 20%, Break ups - 40%, INT - 43%
WI FR/SO: TKL - 17%, Sack 9%, Break ups - 12%, INT - 0%

I know there is no perfect way to make the comparison, but Minnesota gets more contribution from their Freshman and Sophomores in just about every area other than QB and it's not even close.

Please feel free to add your side of the debate.
Click to expand...

How about this:

WI Freshmen: Punters 100‰

WI FR/SO: Kickers 100%

WI FR/SO: Punt Return: 100%

...But lets not talk about special teams... they're not as important as the rest of the team...

Signed,
2005 Gopher Football Team
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'd love to debate it with you. The proof on my end:

QB
MN FR/SO: ATT - 70%, YDS - 67%, Passing TD - 61%
WI FR/SO: ATT - 59%, YDS - 67%, Passing TD - 63%

Rush Attempts
MN FR/SO: CAR - 72%, YDS - 59%, TD - 29%
WI FR/SO: CAR - 12%, YDS - 15%, TD - 5%

Receptions
MN FR/SO: REC - 53%, YDS - 44%, TD - 31%
WI FR/SO: REC - 29%, YDS - 23%, TD - 0%

OL Starts
MN FR/SO: 74%
WI FR/SO: 30%

Defense
MN FR/SO: TKL - 29%, Sack - 20%, Break ups - 40%, INT - 43%
WI FR/SO: TKL - 17%, Sack 9%, Break ups - 12%, INT - 0%

I know there is no perfect way to make the comparison, but Minnesota gets more contribution from their Freshman and Sophomores in just about every area other than QB and it's not even close.

Please feel free to add your side of the debate.
Click to expand...

Thanks for looking this up. Adding to your points, I think people forget that freshman and sophomores run the risk of getting injured more due to lack of strength/ conditioning. Many fight these injuries their entire career. No way to know, but I wonder if guys like Gjere may have avoided some of their injuries if they had not seen significant time till redshirt soph/ jr. seasons.
 

MorningCalmBadger said:
How about this:

WI Freshmen: Punters 100‰

WI FR/SO: Kickers 100%

WI FR/SO: Punt Return: 100%

...But lets not talk about special teams... they're not as important as the rest of the team...

Signed,
2005 Gopher Football Team
Click to expand...

Really!? really!? You are comparing one skill player on each of these special teams units to linemen ( OL/DL) that play multiple downs consecutively? BTW Kucek (P) was a freshman. More importantly the LS that snapped the ball way over the punters head was a sophomore.
 

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