FanSinceTheFifties
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notagopherfan: "Berggren(not a tubby type of big man)." An interesting opinion.
Division 1 Players By State - MN included
- Thread starter minngg
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Hey Zubb. Are you talking national championships? There is enough talent to win Big Ten titles in MN. Just ask Bo Ryan. Not every year, but occasionally MN has excellent players. The 2014 class alone has talent to win a Big Ten title.
Bob_Loblaw
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That's not true.
Since Tubby has been here, who has chosen to play elsewhere instead of going to MN?
There are kids who Tubby has missed on and not offered scholarships. But I can't really think of a MN kid who was offered by Tubby who didn't end up here.
march madness
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5 million people and 1 division 1 school.
I think there is definitely some talent in minnesota most years. It is easy 4 years later to say the gophers missed on a mid major prospect who developed, while ignoring other ones that were rated equally and didn't pan out. It's like ripping teams in the nfl and nba 3 years later and saying they reached on a draft choice.. that is easy.
I think we need to recruit more regionally. When the state of Minnesota has lean years, sometimes Wisconsin and Iowa have deep classes 2013? Tubby has done a very good job getting the top rated prospects in state so far.
If he can stop the bleeding of transfers we can build something here.
I think there is definitely some talent in minnesota most years. It is easy 4 years later to say the gophers missed on a mid major prospect who developed, while ignoring other ones that were rated equally and didn't pan out. It's like ripping teams in the nfl and nba 3 years later and saying they reached on a draft choice.. that is easy.
I think we need to recruit more regionally. When the state of Minnesota has lean years, sometimes Wisconsin and Iowa have deep classes 2013? Tubby has done a very good job getting the top rated prospects in state so far.
If he can stop the bleeding of transfers we can build something here.
notagopherfan
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hind sight is 20/20 but I don't think Tubby really had a chance to recruit Jarred. Plus he had Ralph and Iverson coming in. 2009 he had Royce and Mbakwe. Tubby has never had a center that shot 3 pointers. He likes bangers and enforcers which Berggren is not.
Bangers and enforcers like RSIII?
notagopherfan
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I didn't say RS3 was a banger or enforcer. He has overall better production than JB though. Jarred did get the benefit of a redshirt as well. Mbakwe and Royce White would have been a great duo and Ralph would have been a back up had that situation worked out. Ralph has for the most part, performed below expectations. Part of that is because of his name, part of that is because he's shown flashes of being really, really good but hasn't been able to do it consistently.
notagopherfan
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I think Royce being on the team would have made RS3 a better player. With no Colten, Royce or Mbakwe, Ralph seems to have the lazy big man syndrome. It's too bad because the kid does have a lot of skills, he just doesn't play with that killer instinct. If he did, he'd play 30 minutes a game instead of 22.
And both coming from Monson, I believe.
dpodoll68
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What would Bo Ryan know about it?
2001-02 Big Ten regular season champs - 1 MN player (Max Peek) who played 0.5 mpg over 2 games
2002-03 Big Ten regular season champs - 0 MN players
2003-04 Big Ten tournament champs - 1 MN player (Kammron Taylor) who played 2.3 mpg over 18 games
2007-08 Big Ten regular season and tournament champs - 1 MN player (Kevin Gullikson) who played 6.7 mpg over 15 games and also received 3 underage consumption tickets in 16 months
Yeah, I don't know how Bo could've won all those titles without the combined 9.5 mpg and 35 games he got from 3 end-of-bench players over the course of 4 seasons. Clearly, MN talent has been the foundation of many Big Ten title runs for Bo Ryan!
Oh boy, you really got me, lol. You're right there isn't enough talent here to win a Big Ten title. In 2006-07 Wisconsin became the number one team in the country for the first time ever with Kameron Taylor playing 35 mins at pg. They won 30 games that year. They have been to the tournament every single year with high seeds with MN players that we didn't even recruit. Leftovers. Sweet sixteen last year with 3 MN guys. If they got more of the guys here they couldn't win it? Add Cole Aldrich to the WI teams. They might have a chance to win the Big Ten?
Because they didn't win the title with leftover players, doesn't mean that he doesn't recruit here and he is a championship coach. They are ahead of us in the standings again this year, as usual, with more MN kids contributing than we have.
minngg said:
There have been some good Minnesota kids lately at WI. Nolen was taken over Taylor and Hoff over Leaur by Monson. Bergeron was a Badger before Tubby. Sorry, not trying to turn this into a tubby thing. It just seems to go in spurts with MN talent. You have one stacked year, 3 average to below average years, then another huge year.
dpodoll68
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Blah, blah, blah. No Wisconsin squad has ever won a Big Ten title under Bo Ryan with Minnesota HS players playing any meaningful role. You are wrong. Sorry, Badger fan.
badger fan? waaa, I am mad at minngg so I am going to call him a badger fan.
the point is that the talent is here to win and compete for a Big Ten title. you disagree? lay out your arguments or come back with meaningless stats. do we have the talent in this state to compete or not? Would a team of Taylor, wolters, white, williams, bruesewitz, lockett, dower, berggren, muscala have a chance to compete?
debate the subject and stop with the labels. it's juvenile.
the point is that the talent is here to win and compete for a Big Ten title. you disagree? lay out your arguments or come back with meaningless stats. do we have the talent in this state to compete or not? Would a team of Taylor, wolters, white, williams, bruesewitz, lockett, dower, berggren, muscala have a chance to compete?
debate the subject and stop with the labels. it's juvenile.
minngg said:
If any team had 15 scholarships available in one class, yes it would compete.
Unfortunately, Minnesota produces a great class/player once every four years or so and then it is average to below average.
So no, I don't think you could simply because the talent isn't produced consistently year in and year out.
Would your line up win? Absolutely. But there is no possible way to get all of them on one team.
Especially If you include mbakwe, Hoffarber, Nolen, leaur, wittman, etc. no team has that many scholarships. And when u can only take 2-4 each year and you can't know how they will end up as juniors and seniors, you won't always end up with the best/right players. If a coach recruited and signed every player with Wolters initial ranking, they'd have a team of 100 flops and 1 success.
dpodoll68
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Mad? That's hilarious. You think I'm mad at you? I'm simply telling you that you are flat-out wrong on this topic. Period.
And the fact that you're deep-throating Bo and Becky at the expense of the Gophers does nothing to help your argument.
Yes. I disagree, because it isn't true. How were the stats I provided "meaningless"? You implied that Bo Ryan would know something about winning Big Ten titles with MN players. He doesn't. It is a blatant falsehood.
Read what I wrote. I said there is enough talent in MN to win Big Ten titles in MN. Bo Ryan knows this. That is why he recruits here. He has won championships. He has had terrific pg's from MN that have had him in the touneament every single year and competing for Big Ten titles just about every year. Also, he hasn't gotten all of the talent here. He has taken leftovers for the most part.
It makes me mad that WI has had productive pg's every year from MN and we go get guys like Rico Tucker and Maverick and Aaron Robinson.
I also never said we could get them all. We don't need 15 scholarships. Look at the next 3 or 4 years. There is a bunch of very good MN kids comibng out. Just like the last 5 or 6 years. This isn't like when I played in the Lake conference and played a whole season and there wasn't one Div 1 player.
And yes, you knew exactly what I meant. I admit that technically I could have said Bo knows there is enough talent to win here and he wishes he could get more of it, but I didn't. But the point of the entire thread is completely accurate. With KameronTaylor they had their best team. They were a #2 seed. They were ranked number 1 during the season. With Jordan Taylor they have out performed MN every year,mainly because they had Leuer and Jordan Taylor and we didn't. Monson missed on Jordan Taylor and on Leuer. But he brought in Payton.
Bring in Vaughn, Tyus and Thiesen and other state kids in the next 2 or 3 years and you can win the Big Ten title. Right or wrong?
It makes me mad that WI has had productive pg's every year from MN and we go get guys like Rico Tucker and Maverick and Aaron Robinson.
I also never said we could get them all. We don't need 15 scholarships. Look at the next 3 or 4 years. There is a bunch of very good MN kids comibng out. Just like the last 5 or 6 years. This isn't like when I played in the Lake conference and played a whole season and there wasn't one Div 1 player.
And yes, you knew exactly what I meant. I admit that technically I could have said Bo knows there is enough talent to win here and he wishes he could get more of it, but I didn't. But the point of the entire thread is completely accurate. With KameronTaylor they had their best team. They were a #2 seed. They were ranked number 1 during the season. With Jordan Taylor they have out performed MN every year,mainly because they had Leuer and Jordan Taylor and we didn't. Monson missed on Jordan Taylor and on Leuer. But he brought in Payton.
Bring in Vaughn, Tyus and Thiesen and other state kids in the next 2 or 3 years and you can win the Big Ten title. Right or wrong?
dpodoll68
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Yes, bring in every single top kid in probably the best recruiting class in state history, and you can win a Big Ten title. Brilliant insight!
One cherry-picked class does nothing to prove the point. On a year-in, year-out basis, Minnesota does not produce enough talent to win, or even compete for, a Big Ten title. You have to have at least 3 high major players coming out of Minnesota every year, and Minnesota has to get all of them, and at least 75-80% of them have to pan out. The first one is maybe possible, but neither of the 2nd and 3rd have, or ever will, happen.
You are right but that is the point. The Gophers won't get any of those kids. Thread should be over.
I never said to recruit just MN players. There are enough players here to win. You say I am cherry picking the best class ever. Well, I went back 6 or 7 years as well and you poo poo that as well. You do need to recruit nationally, but realistically, we are not going to go into MO and get their best recruits. Not gonna happen.
MN basketball is changing. It is no longer a Div II paradise for NDSU. The bottom line is that it shouldn't be any harder to win here than many states. It starts with winning. Not making excuses. If you can convince one strong class of MN's to stay home and win, then the national recruits will come. Until then, forget it.
By the way, you do not need three high major players every year to win. That's nonsense. Unless half your team transfers.....