Dissociation and Other Reactions to Sexual Assault

[GuyFawkes]

We agree that it did not start out as a rape - the second part is in question for me. I would like to see the player transcripts before accepting the EOAA summary of cherry-picked quotes to condemn them. For instance - the girl saying "I don't want to" could have referred to any number of this - maybe the guy wanted to hit the 2-hole or give a pearl necklace - WE DON'T KNOW. You cannot construe this out of context player comment as provided by the EOAA as meaning the girl was saying no to all forms of sexual contact without applying a lot of assumptions. At this point - you are asking people to recall words and feelings - and apply context to them long after the fact. If it was cut and dried - there would have been charges. This is all pretty much a grey area for me other than the consented threesome that started the whole situation.

I would also add to your point 'Did't start out as rape, she even admits to that' - I want to see the initial police report before I believe she stated it started as consensual but turned into rape. Based on police action and her not remembering the video - I think her initial version to police differed widely from what she told the EOAA.

how is this not rape? Again, this is from a players account not the victim

The lights were turned off. RS saw A12 and then said, "I don't want to"
and "this is too many people" and "don't send people in here." RS repeatedly said that
she was in pain. A5 did not respond by stopping or changing his activities. A12
reported that it did not look like A5 was doing anything out of the ordinary with RS
A12 did not think tl1at RS . was trying to physically push AS away. A12 ultimately
concluded that "it didn't feel right , .. Sometimes it didn't seem like she was into it."

 

[TruthSeeker]

how is this not rape? Again, this is from a players account not the victim

The lights were turned off. RS saw A12 and then said, "I don't want to"
and "this is too many people" and "don't send people in here." RS repeatedly said that
she was in pain. A5 did not respond by stopping or changing his activities. A12
reported that it did not look like A5 was doing anything out of the ordinary with RS
A12 did not think tl1at RS . was trying to physically push AS away. A12 ultimately
concluded that "it didn't feel right , .. Sometimes it didn't seem like she was into it."

Provide a transcript and an opportunity for rebuttal. Taking anything at face value in this situation, especially from a biased report, is moronic.

 

[stocker08]

how is this not rape? Again, this is from a players account not the victim

The lights were turned off. RS saw A12 and then said, "I don't want to"
and "this is too many people" and "don't send people in here." RS repeatedly said that
she was in pain. A5 did not respond by stopping or changing his activities.

A12 reported that it did not look like A5 was doing anything out of the ordinary with RS
A12 did not think tl1at RS . was trying to physically push AS away. A12 ultimately
concluded that "it didn't feel right , .. Sometimes it didn't seem like she was into it."

Wrong. The first part was the "RS" recollection. The second part was the contextually void account of "A12" that the EOAA put together.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Wrong. The first part was the "RS" recollection. The second part was the contextually void account of "A12" that the EOAA put together.

Excellent context, which is why I said a transcript is necessary.

Most people here have no ability to read or think critically.

 

[Section2]

Wrong. The first part was the "RS" recollection. The second part was the contextually void account of "A12" that the EOAA put together.

+1 again

And if "not being into it" constituted rape, maybe half my encounters could be considered rape


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[csom_1991]

Excellent context, which is why I said a transcript is necessary.

Most people here have no ability to read or think critically.

Exactly. This is not even about football - this is about basic justice and a fair hearing. I couldn't care less if the players are tossed from the team.

 

[GuyFawkes]

Read the report, it looks like this player"A12" (the recruit's host for the weekend) corroborated significant points of the girl's story and led the EOAA to determine that the other player accounts were not credible.
Some of the clear matters of distinction are that multiple players told the EOAA that they did not line up outside the bedroom, talk about who would have sex with her next and turn the lights on/off. A12 told the investigators that he and seven others (including the recruit) did these things.
Also A5 said that nobody came into the room when he was having sex with the girl. A12 said that he himself walked into the room when A5 was having sex with her. He also made some comments that indicated that she wasn't really into it and that she may have said don't send in any more people. Why would a single player side against his teammates if those things didn't happen, highly doubt he and the accuser met up to discuss their story before hand.

 

[Section2]

To the OP, it's always a good idea to start your first post on the board by stating up front that anyone who doesn't agree with you can't or won't rather than doesn't. I'm glad we have super enlightened people like you in the world to tell us what to think.


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[TruthSeeker]

Read the report, it looks like this player"A12" (the recruit's host for the weekend) corroborated significant points of the girl's story and led the EOAA to determine that the other player accounts were not credible.
Some of the clear matters of distinction are that multiple players told the EOAA that they did not line up outside the bedroom, talk about who would have sex with her next and turn the lights on/off. A12 told the investigators that he and seven others (including the recruit) did these things.
Also A5 said that nobody came into the room when he was having sex with the girl. A12 said that he himself walked into the room when A5 was having sex with her. He also made some comments that indicated that she wasn't really into it and that she may have said don't send in any more people.

Proves nothing.

Ask 10 people in a room together what happened at any given time. You will get 10 different stories that don't add up with each other.

It is a joke that the report sides with her because her story has less inconsistencies than the conflicting accounts of a dozen people.

You are being duped.

 

[WoodburyTim]

Well, if there is karma in this world, you or a loved one will get to experience this first hand.

Some scary people in this place. A deranged mind says stuff like this.

 

[GuyFawkes]

Proves nothing.

Ask 10 people in a room together what happened at any given time. You will get 10 different stories that don't add up with each other.

It is a joke that the report sides with her because her story has less inconsistencies than the conflicting accounts of a dozen people.

You are being duped.

Why would one players story lineup with hers though? Especially something like that if it didn't happen, it wasn't going to help his cause. It's obvious the players knew they were in deep ****, and started to delete things, and you know they communicated with each other to defend each other, one of them folded under the pressure let out a little too much that contradicts what his teammates say and supports her story. You are being duped if you really believe that players would tell the truth even if it meant their buddies getting in trouble. The no snitching culture is real. Why would they delete things if they did nothing wrong after finding out she had gone to the police?

 

[csom_1991]

Why would one players story lineup with hers though? It's obvious the players knew they were in deep ****, and started to delete things

I bet they are happy they didn't delete the videos that they showed the police or they would have been charged with rape.

 

[GuyFawkes]

I bet they are happy they didn't delete the videos that they showed the police or they would have been charged with rape.

You mean video's where could prove it was consensual even though she has already stated it started out that way but things turned for the worst later on, the fact that people think 90sec video of over an hour long session proofs anything is appalling

 

[csom_1991]

"You mean video's where could prove it was consensual even though she has already stated it started out that way but things turned for the worst later on"

Do you have a transcript of her stating that to the police in her initial statement? I don't really care if she was consistent with that fact in EOAA statements or her statement AFTER being presented with the video by the police. I want to see a transcript of her saying that from day 1. If that does not exist - I question her credibility.

 

[GuyFawkes]

"You mean video's where could prove it was consensual even though she has already stated it started out that way but things turned for the worst later on"

Do you have a transcript of her stating that to the police in her initial statement? I don't really care if she was consistent with that fact in EOAA statements or her statement AFTER being presented with the video by the police. I want to see a transcript of her saying that from day 1. If that does not exist - I question her credibility.

Police report is on the kstp website

 

[TruthSeeker]

You mean video's where could prove it was consensual even though she has already stated it started out that way but things turned for the worst later on, the fact that people think 90sec video of over an hour long session proofs anything is appalling

It proves that she isn't credible. She could never hold up on cross-examination.

So far, everything you've got is flimsy. Hence, no arrests were ever made and why this is a witch hunt.

 

[GuyFawkes]

It proves that she isn't credible. She could never hold up on cross-examination.

So far, everything you've got is flimsy. Hence, no arrests were ever made and why this is a witch hunt.

There wasn't enough proof to charge, doesn't mean a crime didn't happen. The player never mentioned lining up in the police report, but did in the EOAA. The Victims lawyer has already came out and said that new "electronic evidence" has come to light in the EOAA investigation, and are looking at possibly trying to reopen the criminal case, whether that happens or not, who knows.

 

[csom_1991]

Police report is on the kstp website

I read it - no where does she state that the initial sex was consensual. The video pretty much proves that it was in the eyes of the law. Nowhere in the initial report does she draw a distinction between consensual sex and rape. It is described as a continuous assault. That is not credible. Even then - that is the officer summary. I want her transcript.

 

[Robemcdo]

Crock of crap.

This type of assumption is a dangerous precedence to set. It allows any female to make an accusation without the need for evidence. The ability for a "victim" to state that they were experiencing any type of dissociation in order to "prove" sexual assault is very scary. Especially since drunk college students tend to be promiscuous.

1 in 5 female students likely had sex with a guy and wish later they didn't . 1 on 5 males likely say the same.

It's all bs. This has been created by women to justify the lies they've told.

Go grab a girls behind in the bar and see whether you get the deer in the headlights look? You'll get a kick in the balls and fingernails across your face .




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[GuyFawkes]

I read it - no where does she state that the initial sex was consensual. The video pretty much proves that it was in the eyes of the law. Nowhere in the initial report does she draw a distinction between consensual sex and rape. It is described as a continuous assault. That is not credible. Even then - that is the officer summary. I want her transcript.

Give me one good reason for her to lie? What does she gain from these poor college players who likely won't be going pro. Hell after criminal charges weren't filed she filed for a restraining order, the only thing she gets from that is protection. No financial gain, she has never said anything about going after the U. Remember, she was scared to report it in the first place, he mom had to convince her, someone who is out to get someone isn't going to be scared if they are out to get someone. If it was all due to regret wouldn't it just be easier just to let it go so the story goes away?

Honestly now, would you be protecting these guys if they were no name students? It's actually sickening the stuff I've seen on this board, classic case of victim shaming and the reason we have such laws to protect the victims. If this was your daughter, mother, sister, etc. I'm sure your opinions would be much different

 

[pregameatblarneys]

Give me one good reason for her to lie? What does she gain from these poor college players who likely won't be going pro. Hell after criminal charges weren't filed she filed for a restraining order, the only thing she gets from that is protection. No financial gain, she has never said anything about going after the U. Remember, she was scared to report it in the first place, he mom had to convince her, someone who is out to get someone isn't going to be scared if they are out to get someone. If it was all due to regret wouldn't it just be easier just to let it go so the story goes away?

Honestly now, would you be protecting these guys if they were no name students? It's actually sickening the stuff I've seen on this board, classic case of victim shaming and the reason we have such laws to protect the victims. If this was your daughter, mother, sister, etc. I'm sure your opinions would be much different

One good reason? She's ashamed of allowing multiple partners during the evening. Not saying this is the case, but it is surely a reason to cry wolf.

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[csom_1991]

Give me one good reason for her to lie? What does she gain from these poor college players who likely won't be going pro.

She regains an ounce of self-respect in her eyes and the eyes of her friends and family. You think she told mom that she agreed to the threesome with a 17 year old when she recounted the night to her prior to going to the police? I am betting she didn't. I think she feels a great deal of shame for what happened as well as for putting herself in that position. Putting the blame on the guys removes some of that shame and guilt she feels. Really not too complicated.

 

[GuyFawkes]

She regains an ounce of self-respect in her eyes and the eyes of her friends and family. You think she told mom that she agreed to the threesome with a 17 year old when she recounted the night to her prior to going to the police? I am betting she didn't. I think she feels a great deal of shame for what happened as well as for putting herself in that position. Putting the blame on the guys removes some of that shame and guilt she feels. Really not too complicated.

Why tell them at all? A lot easier just to move on from it, but no, instead, right after she was allegedly "allowed to leave" she calls up her family, not the day after, minutes after, who does that? Someone who is in emotional distress.

 

[stocker08]

Excellent context, which is why I said a transcript is necessary.

Most people here have no ability to read or think critically.

Why would one players story lineup with hers though? Especially something like that if it didn't happen, it wasn't going to help his cause. It's obvious the players knew they were in deep ****, and started to delete things, and you know they communicated with each other to defend each other, one of them folded under the pressure let out a little too much that contradicts what his teammates say and supports her story. You are being duped if you really believe that players would tell the truth even if it meant their buddies getting in trouble. The no snitching culture is real. Why would they delete things if they did nothing wrong after finding out she had gone to the police?

You think that 12 players were around and none of them had an issue with raping a girl? That they all were fine with rape? That sounds extremely unlikely that every player who happened to be in the apartment were alright with rape.

 

[vagopher]

yes, studies have found only 2% are falsely accused. Read the report, she didn't even want to testify because of fear but was encouraged by her mom, she had nothing to gain by accusing these players, they are just no name college players with no money.

The 2% figure has been challenged and the actual figure may be 8-10% or more. See http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...ns_why_must_be_pretend_they_never_happen.html

 

[Wally]

I for one will do all I can to teach my daughter's to avoid such situations.

 

[GuyFawkes]

You think that 12 players were around and none of them had an issue with raping a girl? That they all were fine with rape? That sounds extremely unlikely that every player who happened to be in the apartment were alright with rape.

Sounds like only 5 players took part, the rest were there and just did nothing, they may not have been in support of it, but there is a lot of pressure not to snitch. I'm young enough to know about the no snitching culture. They honestly believe if they did nothing wrong they are in the clear and its not their job to get someone else in trouble, especially a buddy. They risk being alienated by the rest of the team. Sounds like one of the players fessed up a lot more than others, and he is likely going to be the one who gets off the lightest.

 

[stocker08]

She regains an ounce of self-respect in her eyes and the eyes of her friends and family. You think she told mom that she agreed to the threesome with a 17 year old when she recounted the night to her prior to going to the police? I am betting she didn't. I think she feels a great deal of shame for what happened as well as for putting herself in that position. Putting the blame on the guys removes some of that shame and guilt she feels. Really not too complicated.

Why tell them at all? A lot easier just to move on from it, but no, instead, right after she was allegedly "allowed to leave" she calls up her family, not the day after, minutes after, who does that? Someone who is in emotional distress.

Multiple roommates wondering where she'd been. A number of people in the apartment who'd seen her. It's not like she was going to be able to bury this. It was going to get around.

 

[DoubleAlum]

Sounds like only 5 players took part, the rest were there and just did nothing, they may not have been in support of it, but there is a lot of pressure not to snitch. I'm young enough to know about the no snitching culture. They honestly believe if they did nothing wrong they are in the clear and its not their job to get someone else in trouble, especially a buddy. They risk being alienated by the rest of the team. Sounds like one of the players fessed up a lot more than others, and he is likely going to be the one who gets off the lightest.

12 or more used condoms on the floor. Try again.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

yes, studies have found only 2% are falsely accused. Read the report, she didn't even want to testify because of fear but was encouraged by her mom, she had nothing to gain by accusing these players, they are just no name college players with no money.

Completely wrong. Not even close.