Did we hire Fleck to be drastically better in one year?

Donate To GopherHole
hello-world said:
I think you are completely misunderstanding my point. He's never been one of our top corners but he was effective in the old system because Claeys knew how to scheme for him, Smith, so far at least, has shown an inability to do so.
Click to expand...

lol
 

Was thinking about this question.

Do we hit about year 3 before Fleck will have to start coaching for his job - assuming first two years are mediocre bowl or worse? With 2-3 cream puffs scheduled per year, it'll be hard to not win 6 in the first two years. If they absolutely biff it in 2018 then I think he could be out after that.

The Richard Pitino situation comes to mind.

Let's be honest: people will see a mediocre bowl eligible 2017 as a success (even though we could achieve more with current squad). If they're not in contention for the West title/top 25 regular in 2018, I think the hot seat will be a comfortable warm going into year 3.

I think he has the ingredients, but boy, this one will sting if it doesn't work out.
 


If people want to be upset after this last game, fine. Not that I wouldn't have preferred a win, but if you're getting upset about the coaching after this game, you'll be upset about the coaching 5 or 6 more times this year, and probably 6-8 times next year before we start looking to be better after that.

We are 2 years away from 2019 and even then we'll be at a talent disadvantage against many teams.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
There was no one even covering the slot receiver. Winfield is playing deep here as a safety, also the play he got hurt on. This is pathetic defensive scheming.
Click to expand...

Curious if you were complaining about the pathetic defensive scheme when they hadn’t lost a game yet?
 


HoustonTXGopher said:
There was no one even covering the slot receiver. Winfield is playing deep here as a safety, also the play he got hurt on. This is pathetic defensive scheming.
Click to expand...

Love it. No way we could find video of a poor alignment where a long conversion was made in the last 6 years either. keep trying...
 

bfast said:
Was thinking about this question.

Do we hit about year 3 before Fleck will have to start coaching for his job - assuming first two years are mediocre bowl or worse? With 2-3 cream puffs scheduled per year, it'll be hard to not win 6 in the first two years.

The Richard Pitino situation comes to mind.

Let's be honest: people will see a mediocre bowl eligible 2017 as a success (even though we could achieve more with current squad). If they're not in contention for the West title/top 25 regular in 2018 I think the hot seat will be really warm going into year 3.
Click to expand...

LOL
 

In 2014 we were 8-5. We beat Michigan on the road 30-14. Nebraska on the road 28-24. Iowa 51-14. And Northwestern 24-17. It was, imo, the best team we've had since 2003.

Fast forward to 2015. We finish 6-7. We lost to Michigan at home. Nebraska 48-25 at home. Iowa 40-35. And Northwestern 27-0.

Did the coaches have unbelievable game plans in 2014, and then all of a sudden get completely out-coached the following year? Or did our own talent drop-off from one year to the next and the other teams had better years?
 

Apparently the zone RUTM disguised as a Zone Read, which sometimes was a zone read, w/o ever making any effort to spread the defense out and letting them key on RS1 and SB23 each and every play seems smart to some of you. We scored 24 points. God forbid we make some effort to score more when it is needed to win. Great. It's the best we can do. No talent. Have you seen the rankings? Anything but blame PJ because that would be admitting the savior just got schooled. Sorry folks, my eyes are wide open here. Try it sometime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 





mnsports1 said:
Love it. No way we could find video of a poor alignment where a long conversion was made in the last 6 years either. keep trying...
Click to expand...

WTH does that have to do with it? Stop making this a PJ vs Kill/Claeys discussion. It is the go to for all you Flecksters. Can't it be both? Kill got outcoached some games. Claeys got outcoached some games. Guess what - Fleck got outcoached Saturday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Spoofin said:
Apparently the zone RUTM disguised as a Zone Read, which sometimes was a zone read, w/o ever making any effort to spread the defense out and letting them key on RS1 and SB23 each and every play seems smart to some of you. We scored 24 points. God forbid we make some effort to score more when it is needed to win. Great. It's the best we can do. No talent. Have you seen the rankings? Anything but blame PJ because that would be admitting the savior just got schooled. Sorry folks, my eyes are wide open here. Try it sometime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

It was the same offense we've run all year. Including when we scored 48 at Oregon St. I agree it was ugly, but having Rhoda drop back and throw 40 times probably isn't a recipe for success either.
 



John Galt said:
HoustonTXGopher said:
A fair question, I see it hasn't been answered yet.
Your assumption, and it's a huge one, is that Claeys would have won 9 games again this year. And beaten every team that he beat last year.
Click to expand...

tbf Claeys probably would have kept most of our o-line, our corners would be much more comfortable in Johnson's defense, and none of our players would be suspended for pot so it's not an unfair assumption to say that we would probably be better this year with the Claeys and the Johnsons at the helm.

I will always be curious as to how the Seth Green experiment would have ended up.
Hell, I'm watching Wake Forest games this year because I miss our defense so much.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 

John Galt said:
It was the same offense we've run all year. Including when we scored 48 at Oregon St. I agree it was ugly, but having Rhoda drop back and throw 40 times probably isn't a recipe for success either.
Click to expand...

Yes, the difference is we didn't need to do anything else to win those other games. Fairly big difference, wouldn't you say? As for passing 40 times - I made no such request in my post. Quite the opposite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Spoofin said:
WTH does that have to do with it? Stop making this a PJ vs Kill/Claeys discussion. It is the go to for all you Flecksters. Can't it be both? Kill got outcoached some games. Claeys got outcoached some games. Guess what - Fleck got outcoached Saturday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Every coach is "out-coached" at certain times. Fleck, Harbaugh, Meyer even Saban. The problem is that you never said it about Kill or Claeys and have been drooling at the mouth in anticipation of saying it about Fleck...
 

Spoofin said:
Yes, the difference is we didn't need to do anything else to win those other games. Fairly big difference, wouldn't you say? As for passing 40 times - I made no such request in my post. Quite the opposite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

So what is your request coach? Have the ultra-athletic Connor Rhoda keep the read-option?
 

John Galt said:
Every coach is "out-coached" at certain times. Fleck, Harbaugh, Meyer even Saban. The problem is that you never said it about Kill or Claeys and have been drooling at the mouth in anticipation of saying it about Fleck...
Click to expand...

I never said it about Kill or Claeys, huh? You have any idea how many posts I have? You've read them all? Hell, even I haven't. I have ripped Kill's offensive approach on here repeatedly recently in regards to Rutgers and did the same when he was here. You don't think I was mad at Claeys after the MI game? Go to bed JG - you are a fool.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

John Galt said:
HoustonTXGopher said:
A fair question, I see it hasn't been answered yet.
Your assumption, and it's a huge one, is that Claeys would have won 9 games again this year. And beaten every team that he beat last year.
Click to expand...

Of course Claeys would’ve won at least 9. Probably 12.

Claeys beat Maryland last so he for sure would’ve beat them this year. I mean it’s “Maryland”. Sure they went on the road and beat “Texas” but going on the road and beating “Minnesota” no way.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 

Spoofin said:
Apparently the zone RUTM disguised as a Zone Read, which sometimes was a zone read, w/o ever making any effort to spread the defense out and letting them key on RS1 and SB23 each and every play seems smart to some of you. We scored 24 points. God forbid we make some effort to score more when it is needed to win. Great. It's the best we can do. No talent. Have you seen the rankings? Anything but blame PJ because that would be admitting the savior just got schooled. Sorry folks, my eyes are wide open here. Try it sometime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Who do you want to spread the offense out with? All of our elite WRs? The offense scored the same amount of points as last year and we turned the ball over on Maryland's 5.

Rhoda has to keep the ball a time or two and he actually tried once and failed. That's on Rhoda. How did Fleck's offense work so well the last several years at Western Michigan with a QB that had about the same athleticism as Rhoda?
 

John Galt said:
So what is your request coach? Have the ultra-athletic Connor Rhoda keep the read-option?
Click to expand...

Seriously? Yes JG, that is one great idea. Last time someone went with the "great idea coach" to me here was when I suggested Silver red shirt this year. That was probably you too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

I guess to me it is not so much about finding someone to blame. Is Fleck perfect, of course not, he would be the first if he was. It just isn't my first instinct to blame the coach for most things that are decided by players playing. In college FB I blame coaches for roster management, pre-snap penalties, lack of discipline, poor clock management, etc. These are not what seemed to cost us this particular game. Some of them, like roster makeup, can't be pinned to Fleck this year. Sorry that you can't accept that. We all get that you don't like him, and feel free to try to convince us that everything that goes wrong is his fault. As much as you want to scream it, it doesn't make it true. Fleck will have plenty to be blamed for in his time here, all coaches do. He has done multiple things I would have done differently already this year. Even though you have been working super hard with your little hater club doesn't mean anything you have identified so far are any of those things. Your eyes may be wide open, but it appears you don't know what your looking at.
 

Spoofin said:
Let's start with the game plan on both sides of the ball that showed we were unprepared, the uninspired effort the players put forth, and the crazy refusal to make any in game adjustments - especially with our offensive approach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The never-ending RUTM did me in - it was a nightmare from years past. No variety, no imagination - but despite hitting at only 50% Rhoda kept us in the game - if only he could have run some. On defense, we seemed (were) slow and the team in the first half almost flat. We were outsmarted by MD's offense.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Who do you want to spread the offense out with? All of our elite WRs? The offense scored the same amount of points as last year and we turned the ball over on Maryland's 5.

Rhoda has to keep the ball a time or two and he actually tried once and failed. That's on Rhoda. How did Fleck's offense work so well the last several years at Western Michigan with a QB that had about the same athleticism as Rhoda?
Click to expand...

So your argument is the offense worked with a different team with different players that played in a weak conference - so it should work here without any tweaks. Got it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Spoofin said:
Seriously? Yes JG, that is one great idea. Last time someone went with the "great idea coach" to me here was when I suggested Silver red shirt this year. That was probably you too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

10 keepers per game from Rhoda. Brilliant strategy coach. I'm sure that's the ticket to 10 wins, they should get you on the payroll.

JUCOs almost never red-shirt. They had every intention of playing Silver until Gary Moore awoke from his slumber this off-season. But don't hurt yourself patting your back...
 

hello-world said:
This is what I'm talking about:

http://video.btn.com/dj-turner-diving-catch-on-4th-and-10-vs-minnesota

Thomas is like ten yards off the line of scrimmage which means all three trips had time to develop, all three routes were open, and they converted a 4th and 10 into our red zone.
That's not acceptable. I understand prevent defense, but sometimes you need to trust your guys in man coverage. Trips right on 4th and 10 is on of those times.
Click to expand...

Last few years we've had one of the better pass defenses in the nation after decades of misery there. Hope we're not going back to the Mason soft coverage era (Michigan, 4th quarter, '03).
 

Spoofin said:
I never said it about Kill or Claeys, huh? You have any idea how many posts I have? You've read them all? Hell, even I haven't. I have ripped Kill's offensive approach on here repeatedly recently in regards to Rutgers and did the same when he was here. You don't think I was mad at Claeys after the MI game? Go to bed JG - you are a fool.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You sound as though you are near tears.
 

Spoofin said:
So your argument is the offense worked with a different team with different players that played in a weak conference - so it should work here without any tweaks. Got it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

And this is what it comes down to, is Fleck going to make the changes necessary to be a coach at this level?
Kill's offense and Claeys' defense evolved every year they were here.
I believe that Fleck's body of work so far suggests that he will figure it out sooner than later, but we'll have to wait and see.
 

hello-world said:
And this is what it comes down to, is Fleck going to make the changes necessary to be a coach at this level?
Kill's offense and Claeys' defense evolved every year they were here.
I believe that Fleck's body of work so far suggests that he will figure it out sooner than later, but we'll have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

Say what now?
 

John Galt said:
10 keepers per game from Rhoda. Brilliant strategy coach. I'm sure that's the ticket to 10 wins, they should get you on the payroll.

JUCOs almost never red-shirt. They had every intention of playing Silver until Gary Moore awoke from his slumber this off-season. But don't hurt yourself patting your back...
Click to expand...

Your argument is so weak. Did I ask for 10 keepers or any specific number? How about 2. He had one that went for 6 yards. How about a run to the outside. How about a jet sweep. How about a second bubble screen. Not 10. Any so we don't run into a +1 or +2 box each and every time. This isn't rocket science.

Most JuCos don't have 3 to play 2 and come into a position of strength that will be one of weakness in a year. Wasn't rocket science either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom