Daily Gopher take on Redshirts for this Fr class

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Interesting take on the redshirting. I think he has some valid points as to the Gophers and the fans to tough it out a bit and look for the long term. On the other hand, if we don't win as many games as we like, do we lose out on some recruits? I have mix opinions about this whole deal It would be fun to sit down with Kill having a beer discussing these points.
 

Yeah - obviously it's ideal to redshirt guys but I don't think we can afford to redshirt as many as he would like to see.
 

The concept of "mass, wholesale redshirting..." is just another example...

of the bloated, costly excesses that major college football has succumbed to during the past thirty years. It benefits the "haves..." of the college football world much more than the "have nots..." Certainly, the Ohio State...Florida...Texas...Alabama types of teams can stockpile more players for longer periods of time than the Indiana, Duke, Vanderbilt, Iowa State, Baylor, and Minnesota types of teams. All the redshirts in the world are not going to make the bottom feeders more competetive with the top dogs. The rich will just get richer and the poor will stay just as relatively poor as they always have been. You can NOT "redshirt" your way to the top of the conference standings.

How much does it cost in terms of scholarships to keep football players around and elegible so that they have five years on scholarship so that they can complete four years of elegibility? Then, of course, you also have to include the concept of "redshirting" with all of the Title IX athletes. Five years to complete four years of elegibility for Title IX players????? IF you grant male athletes redshirt priviliges, you also have to grant female athletes redshirting priviliges.
Go ahead and play your best players Coach Kill. This redshirting stuff just hasn't EVER worked out here at Minnesota. There haven't been any Big Ten Championships here at Minnesota in football since they started allowing mass-redshirting. The mistaken "feel-good" Monday Morning quarterbacks always cry: "...always redshirt EVERY freshman player...and then when we start all 5th year senior players...we will REALLY be good..."

It doesn't work. It benefits the best teams the most...and it really doesn't even help them. It is just another reason to keep 85 scholarship players on college football teams. That is entirely too costly and also inflates the number of Title IX scholarship players that must be kept around for a fifth season.

I hope Coach Kill plays ALL the true freshmen unless there is a medical problem that any face during their freshmen seasons. Then, a medical redshirt award MAY make some sense. But, otherwise, mass, automatic redshirting is just another example of excess in college sports and should be eleminated to help control the costs of college football and college sports in general.

; 0 )
 

I see what Phil Miller is saying, it would obviously be nice to RS everyone, but that simply won't be the case this season (IMO).

But I agree, it would certainly be interesting to be a fly on the wall and listen to Coach Kill and his assistants hash this one out.


On a side note, redshirting is much more beneficial to the middle of the road teams than the big time programs. The marquee 5 star / 4 star player often have their sites set on the NFL ASAP and they also are guys who are probably more physically developed at a younger age. Us, middle of the road, BCS programs tend to get more kids who are "projects" and really benefit from the 5th season. (See Iowa, WI, Boise St., TCU, etc.).
 


Eery year the Ohio State types of programs have 5th year seniors who could have...

been starters for Minnesota or Indiana who are still waiting for their chance to start even ONE game for OSU. IF OSU ever does have an injury, they have SO much depth that they can just plug a 5th year senior offensive lineman or linebacker into their starting lineup. The "haves" have and the rest don't "have..." when it comes to quality players just sort of wasting away waiting for their chance to play as 5th year seniors.

Mass redshirting gives Ohio State even more advantages over a program that sits in the bottom third of the conference most years.
 

Having the opportunity to get guys to work with the S&C for a year or two before getting on the field is nothing but beneficial. The same goes for knowing the system. If we can get away with redshirting guys, especially linemen, the rewards will be reaped in the future. I just don't know if there's enough warm bodies to to that with everyone we should thanks to the lost classes showing up yet again during a regime change.
 

I read this: the Indiana, Duke, Vanderbilt, Iowa State, Baylor, and Minnesota types of teams and stopped reading.

There is absolutey ZERO reason for Minnesota to be associated with these teams that have huge disadvantages in competing in college football. Nobody should look at Minnesota at one of those teams as if the reasons why Minnesota has been unsuccessful are even remotely similar to the other teams you list Wren. Each one of those teams would kill to be the only school in a major media market with no other D1 college in their own state. If you consider Minnesota one of those teams, please just go away. Our goals should be compete for championships, not lumping the Gophers in with Indiana as have nots and making excuses for failure.
 

Ohio St redshirts less than a school like WI...

If you weren't capable of having a sound debate, i'd show you with the numbers. But, Wisconsin and Iowa RS more than tOSU.
 



On the redshirting topic, I think it is just trying to create controversy where there is none. Nobody redshirts their entire freshman class anymore. If kids are true impact players, most of them will be leaving after 3-4 years on campus, do you want one of those years to be a redshirt year? Not a whole lot of truly great 5th year seniors in the NFL draft. As I mentioned in a previous post a lot of the kids on the recruiting trail want/expect a chance to earn playing time as true freshman and don't want to redshirt. To run a program where redshirting is almost mandatory is to severely limit the type of recruits you can attract.
 

It's a Talker

It would be nice if whoever wrote the article for the Daily Gopher had been to practice. The topic is a conversation starter. There are a lot of sides to whether you redshirt these guys. Maybe you decide you'd just as soon this guy is gone as soon as possible. Several things we don't know...how tough a guy is, how strong he is really, how coachable, could he play another position,
is his demeanor just not right for the task, seemingly no ability to understand the task....tons of factors whether you think a guy will play. What is the competition at that position right now? Who we got coming in?

We can speculate all we want but Kill and his staff have a lot more input to make these decisions than we do. His staff has been figuring this out together for 10 years. Coach Kill and his staff will make good decisions based on All the factors. There is too much we don't know. Be nice but we can't redshirt everybody or maybe even most from watching practice. They'll be playing.
 

There are very few 5th year seniors at a typical senior day. Most either are done after 3 years because they were really good and went to the NFL early, done after 4 years because they redshirted and they leave as redshirt juniors, they were good enough to see the field in some capacity as a freshman and leave after 4 years or they see the writing on the wall and graduate in 4 years and don't come back for a 5th year.

The main exception are offensive lineman. However, the top offensive lineman are going to see the field as freshman or they are going to leave after their redshirt junior season anyway.

Play the guys that can help, period.
 

In regards to Shortell, I think he plays in Kill's system--especially with Leidner and Nelson (and maybe Robert Gregory) coming in 2012. I was in the "redshirt Shortell no matter what" crowd until I'd seen him in practice. He is far more mature on the field than Parish, and has better skills. If he ends up as a Junior starting QB in 2013 with Parish, Foreman, and two RSF QBs backing up, we are in excellent shape.

Cobb and Crawford-Tufts are a conumdrum for me. If Wright and Kirkwood continue to have health issues, we will need Cobb. C-T has shown he can make tough catches and has explosive speed.

Kill is a football-smart guy and has shown in the past that he does not make rash decisions. His recruits for 2012 somewhat show his hand in 2011.

A question--can JC transfers redshirt at all (other than injury)? I seemed to think that they are not eligible for a "no play" redshirt.
 



^^ You don't really want to recruit a JUCO player if you think he is going to have to redshirt to be ready.
 

The fact that Wren is allowed to continue posting here is embarrassing. I can recall perhaps one or two salient points in the thousands and thousands of words' worth of textual diarrhea he has vomited onto this message board.
 

EG#9 said:
I read this: the Indiana, Duke, Vanderbilt, Iowa State, Baylor, and Minnesota types of teams and stopped reading.

There is absolutey ZERO reason for Minnesota to be associated with these teams that have huge disadvantages in competing in college football. Nobody should look at Minnesota at one of those teams as if the reasons why Minnesota has been unsuccessful are even remotely similar to the other teams you list Wren. Each one of those teams would kill to be the only school in a major media market with no other D1 college in their own state. If you consider Minnesota one of those teams, please just go away. Our goals should be compete for championships, not lumping the Gophers in with Indiana as have nots and making excuses for failure.
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Wren gets a little carried away, but his point (I think) is that redshirting helps the "have" schools and not the "have not" schools. While I don't really see his argument making a big impact on these teams, the fact that he listed us in the "have not" pile of BCS teams along with the others he named is - unfortunately - accurate. We are not one of the powerhouses of college football. It doesn't mean we can't, or we won't, or we've given up or anything - it's just the way that it is. When you don't win a conference championship in a half-century, I'm sorry, but you should be considered an also-ran.

The fact is that being in a major market DOES hurt the team's chances for success. That cannot be disputed. To what extent it plays is debatable. Does it mean we can't ever achieve high levels of success? Of course not. But we all need to (university president, AD, et. al. included) understand all of our competitive disadvantages (weather, pro sports city, lack of local talent compared to other areas) and come up with a plan to be able to counteract them in order to succeed. Any business out in the corporate landscape worth its salt does the same exercise. The U should be no different.
 

dpodoll68 said:
The fact that Wren is allowed to continue posting here is embarrassing. I can recall perhaps one or two salient points in the thousands and thousands of words' worth of textual diarrhea he has vomited onto this message board.
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I fail to see where Wren's post is embarrassing. He stated his opinion like others.
 

There's no way only one freshman is gonna play this year, that's just not possible based on how Kill is talking. There is such a thing as preparing for the future, but at the same time, you owe it to the current upperclassmen and the team as a whole to reasonably do your best to win as many games as you can THAT season. This doesn't mean you play dudes for one play and botch up their eligibility, but I'm talking, if you believe this true freshmen is gonna be a part of the game plan every single week, and will make a true contribution to your squad every single week, how do you not play him when you're lacking the depth the coaches say they are?

Marcus Jones is a no-brainer. He will play a ton. A guy like Shortell or Foreman, if Kill has designs on getting him important reps every week to ease things off Gray, and not just slop duty, then play him. Sounds like a couple O-lineman are gonna be out there. But at the same time, it appears we will still have a ton of guys redshirting anyway, so if a few guys who will contribute heavily get on the field, I don't think he's doing damage to the future of the program.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
I fail to see where Wren's post is embarrassing. He stated his opinion like others.
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He pretty much never addresses the point of the thread. This thread is about who should and should not be redshirted. Instead, he goes off on a rant about how redshirting shouldn't exist and how much money it costs the colleges. If you want to discuss that, start a new thread - don't put that crap in here. I'm just amazed that he didn't once mention Mason, Maturi, and/or Brewster.

His sole purpose here is to push his agenda, whatever that may be that certain day - usually something to do with textually fellating Mason and/or excoriating Maturi for 50 years of Gopher futility. (Of course, no one else is allowed to bash Mason or Weber - only Wayne's bashing of Maturi and Bruininks is allowed.) He talks and talks and talks, to no one in particular, and with no point other than, like I said, to push his agenda.

Also note how he never directly responds to others who point out the Mack-truck-sized holes in his arguments. He usually responds with sophomoric insults and uses said post to once again push whatever agenda he feels is important that day.

He takes tons and tons and TONS off the table, and very, very rarely brings anything to it. Like I said, it's embarrassing that an otherwise-quality site allows certain things to persist, like Wren and the Vadger trolls being allowed to post.
 

EG#9 said:
I read this: the Indiana, Duke, Vanderbilt, Iowa State, Baylor, and Minnesota types of teams and stopped reading.

There is absolutey ZERO reason for Minnesota to be associated with these teams that have huge disadvantages in competing in college football. Nobody should look at Minnesota at one of those teams as if the reasons why Minnesota has been unsuccessful are even remotely similar to the other teams you list Wren. Each one of those teams would kill to be the only school in a major media market with no other D1 college in their own state. If you consider Minnesota one of those teams, please just go away. Our goals should be compete for championships, not lumping the Gophers in with Indiana as have nots and making excuses for failure.
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WHAT on earth are you trying to say eg#9????????? Why hasn't Minnesota won a Conference championship...even tied for a conference championship since 1967??????? And then they tied for the Conference championship with Purdue and Indidan.

If you try that lame old excuse that they haven't had coaches good enough...you HAVE to point your finger directly at the administration of the University of Minnesota. THE ADMINISTRATION hires the coaches...fires the coaches and hires the replacement coaches. They did not really WANT to win a championship in 44 years so they purposly hired bad coaches and couldn't find decent replacement coaches??????? Is that also why the administration abandoned the BRICK HOUSE?????????? Is that why the administration accepted a place to play in which the Gophers ranked in importance BEHIND the twins and vikings???????? Has the administration been totally inept, incapable of making good hires, totally incompetent since 1967????? It would certainly seem so when evaluating the plight of the football program.

It is so easy for you to try to say that the Gophers SHOULD not be considered with that list of teams...but...WHAT is the reality of the situation eg#9?????? What are you smoking down there in iowa eg#9??????? The administration at the University of Minnesota has gotten exactly what the administration at the University of Minnesota has WANTED and has SUPPORTED and has bought and has paid for regarding the football program. Ever since 1967.

I stand by what I say: ALWAYS!

; 0 )
 

dpodoll68 said:
He pretty much never addresses the point of the thread. This thread is about who should and should not be redshirted. Instead, he goes off on a rant about how redshirting shouldn't exist and how much money it costs the colleges. If you want to discuss that, start a new thread - don't put that crap in here. I'm just amazed that he didn't once mention Mason, Maturi, and/or Brewster.

His sole purpose here is to push his agenda, whatever that may be that certain day - usually something to do with textually fellating Mason and/or excoriating Maturi for 50 years of Gopher futility. (Of course, no one else is allowed to bash Mason or Weber - only Wayne's bashing of Maturi and Bruininks is allowed.) He talks and talks and talks, to no one in particular, and with no point other than, like I said, to push his agenda.

Also note how he never directly responds to others who point out the Mack-truck-sized holes in his arguments. He usually responds with sophomoric insults and uses said post to once again push what ever agenda he feels is important that day.

He takes tons and tons and TONS off the table, and very, very rarely brings anything to it. Like I said, it's embarrassing that an otherwise-quality site allows certain things to persist, like Wren and the Vadger trolls being allowed to post.
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And you exempt yourself from your own complaints by posting this^. More irony!
 

The administration the moved the Gophers into the Metrodome is gone.
 

Oneoldgopher said:
And you exempt yourself from your own complaints by posting this^. More irony!
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I'm so sorry that I don't pass muster with a guy who thinks that "Smokin" Joe Salem is a person who exists.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I'm so sorry that I don't pass muster with a guy who thinks that "Smokin" Joe Salem is a person who exists.
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Coach Salem played for the Goph's on their last National Championship team and later coached the team in the early 80's.
 

Oneoldgopher said:
Coach Salem played for the Goph's on their last National Championship team and later coached the team in the early 80's.
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I'm well aware of who he is. I also know what his actual nickname is.
 

dpodoll68 said:
He pretty much never addresses the point of the thread. This thread is about who should and should not be redshirted. Instead, he goes off on a rant about how redshirting shouldn't exist and how much money it costs the colleges. If you want to discuss that, start a new thread - don't put that crap in here. I'm just amazed that he didn't once mention Mason, Maturi, and/or Brewster.

His sole purpose here is to push his agenda, whatever that may be that certain day - usually something to do with textually fellating Mason and/or excoriating Maturi for 50 years of Gopher futility. (Of course, no one else is allowed to bash Mason or Weber - only Wayne's bashing of Maturi and Bruininks is allowed.) He talks and talks and talks, to no one in particular, and with no point other than, like I said, to push his agenda.

Also note how he never directly responds to others who point out the Mack-truck-sized holes in his arguments. He usually responds with sophomoric insults and uses said post to once again push what ever agenda he feels is important that day.

He takes tons and tons and TONS off the table, and very, very rarely brings anything to it. Like I said, it's embarrassing that an otherwise-quality site allows certain things to persist, like Wren and the Vadger trolls being allowed to post.
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Well said. I don't block anyone in GH simply because I don't want to be confused as to what all the replies are about. But if I did, this wren guy would be the first one I'd block. It happens almost every time I see this guy post something and this thread is an example of how the subject gets twisted and off course because people can't help but respond (including me, in this case).
 


How to address a football coach

dpodoll68 said:
I'm well aware of who he is. I also know what his actual nickname is.
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Smokey...

I don't care what his "official" dpodoll68 nickname is... You are not the gatekeeper of all that is good and bad in this world. I have a nickname for you, but I am not asking your permission to use it. Out of respect for the GH board viewers, I keep it to myself. As for Smokin Joe... I like my version better, call it personal preference.
 

Oneoldgopher said:
Smokey...

I don't care what his "official" dpodoll68 nickname is... You are not the gatekeeper of all that is good and bad in this world. I have a nickname for you, but I am not asking your permission to use it. Out of respect for the GH board viewers, I keep it to myself. As for Smokin Joe... I like my version better, call it personal preference.
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Yeah, that's the ticket. It's not that you misuse/misremember/mistype it, it's that you have "your own" that you "like better". Good call.

As for your nickname for me, why don't you share it? I'm sure we would all love to hear it.
 

Bayfield

dpodoll68 said:
He pretty much never addresses the point of the thread. This thread is about who should and should not be redshirted. Instead, he goes off on a rant about how redshirting shouldn't exist and how much money it costs the colleges. If you want to discuss that, start a new thread - don't put that crap in here. I'm just amazed that he didn't once mention Mason, Maturi, and/or Brewster.

His sole purpose here is to push his agenda, whatever that may be that certain day - usually something to do with textually fellating Mason and/or excoriating Maturi for 50 years of Gopher futility. (Of course, no one else is allowed to bash Mason or Weber - only Wayne's bashing of Maturi and Bruininks is allowed.) He talks and talks and talks, to no one in particular, and with no point other than, like I said, to push his agenda.

Also note how he never directly responds to others who point out the Mack-truck-sized holes in his arguments. He usually responds with sophomoric insults and uses said post to once again push whatever agenda he feels is important that day.

He takes tons and tons and TONS off the table, and very, very rarely brings anything to it. Like I said, it's embarrassing that an otherwise-quality site allows certain things to persist, like Wren and the Vadger trolls being allowed to post.
Click to expand...

This is why he has been banned before at several other blogs. He has no respect or desire to have a conversation with others. His behavior of interrupting the conversation that is taking place with proselytizing of his never ending agenda is rude, annoying, and just bad manners. There are some here that feel the way you do but there are many who would agree with dopodoll.
 

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