Dabo details blatant tampering

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Do these contracts have non-competes in addition to the buyouts?

Sure, you can leave before the end of your contract but you have to pay your buyout and sit out the year…

I’d guess that would deter some of this movement.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Players like coaches ought to be able to talk to other programs, transfer at any time for any reason within the confines of their signed contracts or suffer the penalties agreed to within said contract.

I’m now convinced nothing will destroy the college football business. We’re all hopelessly addicted and ratings indicate we will tune in even if there is a 1% chance of the team pulling an Indiana. Acceptance is the first step to recovery.

Prove me wrong
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Agree. The college football equivalent of soap operas is upon us and I fully expect Swinney and Golding to settle this in the Octagon. All we'll need is The Real Housewives of Sanford Hall (is Sanford still standing?).

Pro ball is organized and ownership outside of Green Bay is a composed of a bevy of billionaires (is there a standard term for group of billionaires like "herd of cattle," "flock of birds," or 'murder of crows"?) Those guys may hate each other, but there is some semblance of an honor code and at least a grudging adherence to overall governance. College football is much more amorphous and frankly, I don't see the schools--especially the top-tier football programs--being interested in reining things in.

It's only going to get worse. I don't know how many here are aware of the Charles Bediako case as it relates to college basketball. Bediako played two seasons for Alabama, declared for the NBA draft (and went undrafted), and has played the last three years in the G-League. There was a case involving Baylor being allowed to have James Nnaji on their team. Nnaji played professionally in Europe, was drafted by the Detroit Pistons but didn't sign (his draft rights have been traded twice since), but was declared eligible last December. The courts are trying to sort out if European professional basketball equates in terms of college eligibility with American professional basketball. Anyway, this kerfuffle along with the Pavia decision of last year may simply allow players to keep playing at the college level by destroying any notion of elgibility limits.
 





GreasyGopher said:
Ok…

1. Where did you find that?

2. If true, what exactly is the point of the portal window?
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According to "Gemini": The college football transfer portal's primary purpose is to empower student-athletes by providing them with increased freedom of movement and a transparent process to explore opportunities at other schools. It serves as a central database that allows players to inform their current institution of their intent to transfer and openly communicate with coaches from other programs without restrictions.
 

Some guy said:
The point of the portal is to facilitate transfers


Where I found it was here on earth
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Your original statement implies that football players are free to transfer at any time without any negative impact.

If it’s true that players can transfer at any time outside of the portal window, I’m certain there are strings attached (I.e. sitting out a year).

Additionally, NCAA athletes have always been subject to rules that didn’t apply to the regular student body so using the fact the some engineering student can transfer at will is not sufficient evidence to support the point you’re attempting to make.
 

Kitzmann57 said:
According to "Gemini": The college football transfer portal's primary purpose is to empower student-athletes by providing them with increased freedom of movement and a transparent process to explore opportunities at other schools. It serves as a central database that allows players to inform their current institution of their intent to transfer and openly communicate with coaches from other programs without restrictions.
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Ok, can players still transfer without repercussions if they miss the portal window?
 

GopherGuy82 said:
Wild West out there. Great story for those that think these kids aren't getting righteous bucks.
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The next shoe to drop will be collectives writing checks they can’t deliver on if their fundraising falls short. This is an uncontrolled arms race with some less than straight shooting characters. Will we see some creative shell LLC machinations and dissolutions. No recourse for the player. The Jiffypop popcorn is ready to go at a moments notice. I for one am entertained but I can see where some people might be upset.

My only objection to Dabo is that he and his peers ought to also agree to a transfer portal period of 10 days following the season. Musical chairs. The betting market would be on fire. Make it so.
 
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GreasyGopher said:
Ok, can players still transfer without repercussions if they miss the portal window?
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Yes. The portal is just Facebook marketplace for players that want to catch on someplace else and need a marketing platform. The tampering thing is a joke. We all understand this.
 

50PoundHead said:
Agree. The college football equivalent of soap operas is upon us and I fully expect Swinney and Golding to settle this in the Octagon. All we'll need is The Real Housewives of Sanford Hall (is Sanford still standing?).

Pro ball is organized and ownership outside of Green Bay is a composed of a bevy of billionaires (is there a standard term for group of billionaires like "herd of cattle," "flock of birds," or 'murder of crows"?) Those guys may hate each other, but there is some semblance of an honor code and at least a grudging adherence to overall governance. College football is much more amorphous and frankly, I don't see the schools--especially the top-tier football programs--being interested in reining things in.

It's only going to get worse. I don't know how many here are aware of the Charles Bediako case as it relates to college basketball. Bediako played two seasons for Alabama, declared for the NBA draft (and went undrafted), and has played the last three years in the G-League. There was a case involving Baylor being allowed to have James Nnaji on their team. Nnaji played professionally in Europe, was drafted by the Detroit Pistons but didn't sign (his draft rights have been traded twice since), but was declared eligible last December. The courts are trying to sort out if European professional basketball equates in terms of college eligibility with American professional basketball. Anyway, this kerfuffle along with the Pavia decision of last year may simply allow players to keep playing at the college level by destroying any notion of elgibility limits.
Click to expand...


We will see selective application of the rules. Written by _______.
 

GreasyGopher said:
Your original statement implies that football players are free to transfer at any time without any negative impact.
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I disagree with this assessment of what I said. Eligibility wise, yes.
GreasyGopher said:
If it’s true that players can transfer at any time outside of the portal window, I’m certain there are strings attached (I.e. sitting out a year).
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There are not
GreasyGopher said:
Additionally, NCAA athletes have always been subject to rules that didn’t apply to the regular student body so using the fact the some engineering student can transfer at will is not sufficient evidence to support the point you’re attempting to make.
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Disagree
 




Pompous Elitist said:
Players like coaches ought to be able to talk to other programs, transfer at any time for any reason within the confines of their signed contracts or suffer the penalties agreed to within said contract.

I’m now convinced nothing will destroy the college football business. We’re all hopelessly addicted and ratings indicate we will tune in even if there is a 1% chance of the team pulling an Indiana. Acceptance is the first step to recovery.

Prove me wrong
Click to expand...
Sure .... the penalty for transferring and breaking your contract should be that you are ineligible to play for any team for the length of that contract.

That works for me.
 

Mensah absolutely should transfer to Miami. Right now. Do it. They literally can't stop you ... they can't put a chain around you and prevent you from getting in your car or on a plane.

And he should be ineligible to play for Miami or any other team for the duration of the contract he signed with Duke.

Prove me wrong
 

GopherGrit said:
Sure .... the penalty for transferring and breaking your contract should be that you are ineligible to play for any team for the length of that contract.

That works for me.
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A non-compete like that would never be enforceable, as you know. The terms of the contract can be solid, or they can be squishy. As you know.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
A non-compete like that would never be enforceable, as you know. The terms of the contract can be solid, or they can be squishy. As you know.
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I'm talking about laws and NCAA rules.

Let them go to court if they don't like our laws regarding breaking a signed contract.

So you're saying the court can't do what it did in the Mensah case? Sure seems like it did it just fine.


Monetary damages aren't good enough
 

GopherGrit said:
Mensah absolutely should transfer to Miami. Right now. Do it. They literally can't stop you ... they can't put a chain around you and prevent you from getting in your car or on a plane.

And he should be ineligible to play for Miami or any other team for the duration of the contract he signed with Duke.

Prove me wrong
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So, you’re alleging this is then pay for play. An he is an employee of the school.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
A non-compete like that would never be enforceable, as you know. The terms of the contract can be solid, or they can be squishy. As you know.
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Are you thinking it wouldn’t be enforceable due to the scope being too broad?

What about a year long non-compete limited to FBS schools?
 


GreasyGopher said:
Are you thinking it wouldn’t be enforceable due to the scope being too broad?

What about a year long non-compete limited to FBS schools?
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In the Mensah case the hearing is Jan 29 so we will get a better idea of what irreparable harm amounts to and whether the non-Duke booster court agrees with Duke’s arguments..put a provable number on the NIL value... Good luck, since it’s obviously pay for play.

From a common sense standpoint can schools prevent coaches from moving to a new school? No. I’ve never seen a coach agree to or subject to a non-compete clause. There is a specific buyout or guaranteed salary clause, not some squishy undefined “irreparable damages”. They are employees.
 

GreasyGopher said:
I’m pretty sure that these players are now contractors entering into contracts directly with the University with the introduction of revenue sharing.
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Yep they are considered independent contractors which is a farce, legally or common sense-wise. There are tenets of employment versus IC and violators face very stiff penalties. Shall we proceed through each point? However, there are always carve outs so…

Jiffypop at the ready.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
In the Mensah case the hearing is Jan 29 so we will get a better idea of what irreparable harm amounts to and whether the non-Duke booster court agrees with Duke’s arguments..put a provable number on the NIL value... Good luck, since it’s obviously pay for play.

From a common sense standpoint can schools prevent coaches from moving to a new school? No. I’ve never seen a coach agree to or subject to a non-compete clause. There is a specific buyout or guaranteed salary clause, not some squishy undefined “irreparable damages”. They are employees.
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You're the one who keeps bringing up a tangential and as far as I can tell irrelevant point about "non-competes".

There doesn't need to be any such clause in any contract.

It can just be a rule: you break your contract, then the rules say you aren't eligible for the following season.


Perfectly fair
 
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Pompous Elitist said:
So, you’re alleging this is then pay for play. An he is an employee of the school.
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Michael Jordan was not an employee of McDonald's.

Whatever that relationship was legally, that's exactly the same case as we have with players signing defacto NIL contracts with schools directly.
 

Now that said ....

If being actual, dyed in the wool employees of the school allowed us to get to collective bargaining faster .... I'm for that.


Here's the rub: how do you do that only for P4 football and men's & women's basketball players .... but not any other sport at P4 schools, let alone any sport at any FBS, DI-AAA, DII, or DIII schools??

I don't see how that will fly.


But for all of those vast, vast other cases .... they can't afford the legal requirements (talking wages & benefits) of all those athletes in all those sports being full-time employees, as they would be based on hours spent.

They'd close down varsity athletes before going along with that.


And so ... why should we, literally, kill college sports for many thousands of student-athletes so that P4 football and basketball players can have collective bargaining??


We need new law. Just the absolute objective bottom line.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
In the Mensah case the hearing is Jan 29 so we will get a better idea of what irreparable harm amounts to and whether the non-Duke booster court agrees with Duke’s arguments..put a provable number on the NIL value... Good luck, since it’s obviously pay for play.

From a common sense standpoint can schools prevent coaches from moving to a new school? No. I’ve never seen a coach agree to or subject to a non-compete clause. There is a specific buyout or guaranteed salary clause, not some squishy undefined “irreparable damages”. They are employees.
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I think part of the difference between coach and player contracts is that it’s extraordinary difficult for a coach to join a team midseason but not that difficult for a player to join a team midseason.

If it’s just a buyout added to the contract, what’s to stop a school from shopping on another teams roster midseason?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Yep they are considered independent contractors which is a farce, legally or common sense-wise. There are tenets of employment versus IC and violators face very stiff penalties. Shall we proceed through each point? However, there are always carve outs so…

Jiffypop at the ready.
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Sure, I’d love to get into that discussion.

Tell me how they get to contracts that are enforceable and stop free agency from occuring 24/7/365.
 

GreasyGopher said:
I think part of the difference between coach and player contracts is that it’s extraordinary difficult for a coach to join a team midseason but not that difficult for a player to join a team midseason.

If it’s just a buyout added to the contract, what’s to stop a school from shopping on another teams roster midseason?
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Make the buyouts hurt.
 

GreasyGopher said:
Sure, I’d love to get into that discussion.

Tell me how they get to contracts that are enforceable and stop free agency from occuring 24/7/365.
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Duke’s contract with Mensah for example is alleging “irreparable harm” if Mensah breaks his contract and is subject to injunctive relief (ie potentially very high monetary loss by inability to move on) but in the same paragraph stipulates if Duke breaks the contract Mensah does not suffer irreparable harm and is entitled to only seek monetary damages. I’d say if this holds up that is an effective way. Of course no player in their right mind would agree to that clause going forward.

A tenet of irreparable harm and injunctive relief:
“The requesting party must show that without the injunction, they would suffer harm that cannot be repaired with money alone.” Given that the business of Duke football is making money that seems like a specious argument. They can be made whole with a monetary penalty. The fact that there is a limited transfer portal is a totally separate issue and is certainly not the fault of Mensah. Logic 101. That’s the NCAA’s fault. Go bark at them.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Yes. The portal is just Facebook marketplace for players that want to catch on someplace else and need a marketing platform. The tampering thing is a joke. We all understand this.
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Are you sure about that? Pretty sure they are required to enter the portal prior to transferring. Why was no one transferring before the portal opened? Teams in the playoffs have an extended portal date, so not sure if that played into this since he originally signed with Ole Miss. Have we seen anyone else enter the portal from a non playoff team after the portal closed?
 

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