D.J. Durkin hiring shows coaches care more about each other than players

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Hypothetical scenario: an immobile and hobbled Annexstad is drilled by a defensive end at Maryland, suffers subdural hematoma. Training staff slow to recognize the symptoms until sudden vomiting, loss of consciousness. Rushed to the hospital, staff there make mistakes in care and Annexstad dies. Lifetime ban? PJFs fault or the medical team? Both? Pushing players too far, too fast and risking further injury? Fluke event? Could ESPN twist some events or spoken words out of context from disgruntled players and make it seem like players are routinely pushed to play through injury?
 

MplsGopher said:
No, and I didn't say or imply that.

I'll give you one more chance to have an honest discussion. Please note, I'm not trying to change your mind, convince you that you're wrong and I'm right, etc. You don't need to react so hyper-defensively and be so biased.

It is possible to recognize that Durkin did something wrong, and still come down on the side that he deserves to be given a second chance at coaching.

You don't need to come out trying to convince people that Durkin is a saint.
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I realize this sort of trolling bit is your thing but once again I’m not the one arguing he should never have contact with football players again. I’m hearing that yelling at players, pushing them to their limits, and hurting their feelings is grounds for a lifetime ban. Did I miss something?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
’m hearing that yelling at players, pushing them to their limits, and hurting their feelings is grounds for a lifetime ban. Did I miss something?
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Yes, you did, on purpose it would seem. You're not being honest about the entirety of the situation, and you're doing that purposefully. I have no idea why.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Hypothetical scenario: an immobile and hobbled Annexstad is drilled by a defensive end at Maryland, suffers subdural hematoma. Training staff slow to recognize the symptoms until sudden vomiting, loss of consciousness. Rushed to the hospital, staff there make mistakes in care and Annexstad dies. Lifetime ban?
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This analogy is relevant only, and specifically only to, if people are claiming that Durkin should be blamed for the negligent medical care that the player received for heat stroke.

But no one ever said that, nor are they saying it now. You're trying to twist the entire story to be about this phantom point that no one has made or is making.

I don't see why you need to be so dishonest about this situation.
 

MplsGopher said:
Yes, you did, on purpose it would seem. You're not being honest about the entirety of the situation, and you're doing that purposefully. I have no idea why.
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I‘m giving you a chance...

Did I miss something, or not? There was an investigation that was pretty thorough (not the ESPN piece).

What is “the entirety of the situation“ from your POV?
 


Pompous Elitist said:
There was an investigation that was pretty thorough
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About if there was criminal negligence on Durkin's part. I agree and believe there wasn't.

That alone really does little to prove that he should be given a second chance at coaching, given what he allowed to go on in his strength program.
 

MplsGopher said:
This analogy is relevant only, and specifically only to, if people are claiming that Durkin should be blamed for the negligent medical care that the player received for heat stroke.

But no one ever said that, nor are they saying it now. You're trying to twist the entire story to be about this phantom point that no one has made or is making.

I don't see why you need to be so dishonest about this situation.
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The player dying is inextricably linked to the the ESPN piece in the public’s mind. This is clear. People conflate them in this thread. Even Wolken acknowledges Durkin was cleared of that.
 

MplsGopher said:
About if there was criminal negligence on Durkin's part. I agree and believe there wasn't.

That alone really does little to prove that he should be given a second chance at coaching, given what he allowed to go on in his strength program.
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Which was what?
 





I know about getting yelled at, and some hurt feelings.

Go on...
 


I’m trying to ?‍♂️. I’ve read that post and I’m asking you what else? What was corroborated? Who are the sources? Have you read the formal investigation findings?

You asked me to think harder. That goes both ways. Can you think of scenarios where those events may have been exaggerated or taken out of context? Is that possible?
 



Pompous Elitist said:
Which is what? The investigation didn’t find much. Getting yelled at isn’t a crime. The slasher movie thing is sort of dumb, isn’t it? Guys don’t watch those anymore?

Kirby Smart and Saban, many others routinely eviscerate players and coaches on the sideline. Should they be banned from coaching? Gary Patterson, others have been accused of pushing players too hard and usually writen off as sour grapes from disgruntled players. Closer to home we’ve seen injured players put back on the field too soon. Lifetime ban?
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Do not go normalizing the actions of this sick man. There is a very distinct difference between discipline and abuse, encouragement and ridicule, etc. Every organization is designed and lead to get the results they get. He managed a culture of abuse and sick motivational techniques that not only killed one young man, but emotionally abused several others.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
You asked me to think harder. That goes both ways. Can you think of scenarios where those events may have been exaggerated or taken out of context? Is that possible?
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Anything is possible, and it is difficult to prove anything with near absolute certainty unless you have hard evidence. Hence why gaslighting works so effectively.

Given the number of players who have spoken out against the behavior of Court, I'm going to choose to believe them and conclude that he ran a perverse strength program at Maryland during Durkin's time.

Is that enough to say that Durkin shouldn't be given another chance at a P5 program? That's the discussion.

Kiffin has decided that the answer is no, at least as an assistant.
 

Check out the post above yours. ?

How many players spoke out? This is still totally unclear. These sound more like the complaints of players that got by on athleticism in high school but couldn’t cut it at the next level.
 

From the Washington Post

They asked if you could sum everything up in a sentence or two,” Darmstadter, the former kicker, said of his interview with a commission member. “I told them, to me, a bully is someone who picks on someone or belittles someone because they can or because it makes them feel good to put them down. Coach Durkin and Court never struck me as a bully. They did things with the intent of trying to make you better.

“Court would say I’m being hard on you because, when these workouts are over, you go into camp and you have to perform if you eventually want to get on the field,” he continued. “Coach Durkin would say he’s being hard or yelling because of these reasons. I thought they did a good job of saying the ‘why.’ I wouldn’t classify it as bullying. I’d classify it as an intense, competitive atmosphere where they try to foster guys to work hard, take risks and hopefully be successful on the field.”

Even before the Sept. 21 release of a report focused on the circumstances around McNair’s death composed by consulting firm Walters Inc., there was a growing sentiment among many close to the program that the eight-person commission will find that allegations of an unhealthy and abusive culture were overblown.

McNair report details attempts at Maryland to revamp athletes’ medical care

“My understanding is that the ‘toxic culture’ label was said, and then it was repeated so often that it was accepted as fact, and I don’t believe that they are going to find that that’s the case at all,” ESPN’s Scott Van Pelt, a prominent Maryland alum, said on a podcast recently. “In fact, I think they’ll find quite the opposite among the rank-and-file players that are there that I believe are supportive of Durkin.”
 

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