As of right now the Gophers have no available scholarships. The rush to fill the roster with Mav, Chip and Ingram has created a dilemma which handcuffs the team from signing another HS recruit like Philip Nolan or now a transfer like Trent Lockett. What exactly are teams allowed to do in this situation? Can they simply tell player his scholarship has been cancelled like a stringer-sorting fisherman? Would a player like Mav want to stay on the team if he was told he will not play in the future? The addition of Lockett would definitely improve the roster and to a degree compensate for the loss of Joseph.
Cutting scholarship players
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From the Barn
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Scholarships are one year renewable. They can do what ever they damn well please.
Tubtastic said:
Not sure about Crean, but I do agree. I will support and cheer for every player who has worn the maroon and gold and gave it their all and I hate to see ANY of them leave unwillingly. I'd love for them to stay as walk-ons even if they would. However, you are correct. It is about winning and Tubby will have a tough task at hand. It is about winning though, within the rules, and I hope Tubby and the U understand that and do what is necessary.
bemidjigopher
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Tubby's don it before in 09 the gophers cut Busch and Kevin Payton and the year before that Tubby "encouraged" Flip's kid to be a grad assistant. The first year to make room for Hoff and Nolan the team cut Brandon Smith and the kid from St.Thomas Acadamy left for Utah State.
stocker08
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Personally, I don't worry about speculative players. I am concerned with players on our current roster. Let's wait until we run into this issue before worrying about it. If we have players on our team that have committed to playing in the maroon and gold, great. I never want to see a player run out of town.
howieramone
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Clem's Gophers
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They didn't cut Brandon Smith.
You are right about Busch and Payton. Both graduated and had another year of eligibility and it appears both were sent packing. Newcomers that year were Cobbs, White, Williams and Mbakwe to fill out the 13 Scholarships. Busch went to Colo St and Payton to Europe.
The others do not fall into the sent packing category.
Ryan Saunders was never a scholarship player. (Injury probably led to Grad Asst position.)
Smith and Bryce Webster did not leave because of scholarship shortage.
Tubby's first year here he had 10 players on Scholarship. http://www.gopherhole.com/page/show/334844-gopher-basketball-all-time-records-database
I think 2nd semester Tubby gave Travis Busch a scholarship.
Also, for the last dozen years or so, the average number of scholarship players leaving the program on a yearly basis has been somewhere between 2 and 3. I thought that number would go down when Tubby came but it has stayed pretty much the same.
Of course, they can do whatever they please, but the question is should they do whatever they please to field the best team possible in light of present circumstances. I have no experience of the inner workings of big time college basketball, but my guess is that the likelihood that there is some middle ground between "running them off" and allowing them to stick around when they can't contribute is probably high. My guess is that guys who are asked to leave are probably given some choice with the knowledge they won't play, and the coaches will help them find another place to play, especially if the guy needs to step down a level to play. (My one near experience is a D-1 football player who was between his junior and senior seasons and the coaches wanted his scholarship. They didn't take it, but told him he was not in their plans. He and his parents talked about it, and he decided to hang up football, pay for his senior year and get on with life. No bitterness. He could have stayed but he was worn out and his family could foot the bill, so he moved on.)
That having been said, this staff has made some bad decisions in hind sight with these issues. Allowing Travis Busch to go when you had two forwards with baggage coming in was a mistake. Losing both of those guys and not having Travis around killed us that year. Pushing (if that is what happened) Colt out the door may have cost us a tournament bid this year, and not having Cobbs (for illustration only- probably left on his own) when the guards crashed last year started the cesspool we are in now. Roster turnover however it has happened has not helped us upgrade at all, with one possible exception of Dre Hollins "replacing" Cobbs on the scholarship grid.
In the end, few of us will ever know if a guy really transferred or was pushed out the door. Only he and the coach know. But if we were not filling the roster with summer recruits, these issues would not be as signifiicant. Like many others, I am opposed to completing a roster with guys who can't play B1G basketball, and we may have a couple on the team right now. We would be better off completing a roster with walk ons that can be granted a scholarship if they become available and they earn it later on.
From the Barn
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Flip's kid was a walk-on with the shoulder of a 90 year old. He was a grad assistant because he couldn't play anymore.
justthefacts
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Sorry, but I think taking away a kid's scholarship who then has to sit a year to transfer to another school is despicable. If your litmus test for whether something is OK is "What Would Crean Do," you are in big trouble.
brucekaupa
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Dude...YOU won't know we've run into the issue until after it's resolved. (Unless Tubby consults with you on the daily basis.) The only time we have a chance to worry about it is NOW.
Bryce Webster
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What'd you call me? Also, I didn't go to Utah State
I remember having high hopes for Bryce Webster. Anyway, I'm usually against cutting players. I think if you commit to somebody, you should allow them to see it out. Don't forget, Aaron Robinson, Jeff Hagen, and Brent Lawson turned from players who looked like they'd never amount to anything into NCAA tournament players. However, I'm a bit of a hypocrite, because I wasn't crying to see Payton gently pushed towards the door, and there are a couple of kids on this squad who I would not exactly miss if they headed for the hills and were replaced by Nolan and Lockett.
Didn't you guys ever see the 1977 Robbie Benson Film "one on one" - His coach (same actor who played the Nevada Senator in Godfather II) tried to force Robbie Benson's character to relinquish his scholarship. Had a senior rough up the Freshman and made Benson's character do extra laps...Funny stuff...But Benson dug deep and when the star point guard got hurt, Benson was pressed into service and wound up winning a game for his team. Awful movie, but I'm sure that kinda stuff happens.
I suspect both Mav and Chip would rather transfer then hang around and wait for injuries.
I suspect both Mav and Chip would rather transfer then hang around and wait for injuries.
brucekaupa
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It wasn't that bad of a year for Robbie's character. He also got to hop in the sack with Annette O'Toole.
I love the last line of the movie, "I can play whereever I want!" Yeah...one good game and you can play whereever you want...
SelectionSunday
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Annette O'Toole was rather fetching back then.
My favorite line from Henry Steele (Benson) was, "All the way up with a red-hot poker". ... that's how you stick it to the coach that wronged you.
brucekaupa
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...clearly the above would not be an issue if the team had a good practice facility.
justthefacts
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I can't tell if your point is that because there is precedent, it means it's ethically and morally fine for Minnesota to do this, but I certainly hope that you'd pick a better role model if so.
That sure is reading 200% more into that than it was. It was simply a comment relevant to the conversation, no more no less.
There's so much erroneous info in this post, I don't know where to start. Technically, I don't think one thing you said was correct.
Busch - came to MN with no scholarship, was a walk-on, was given a scholarship for two years, then told he was going to be a walk-on again as a senior, he chose to leave. If you want to say his scholarship was "cut" that's correct. But, he was definitely not cut from the team, and he was never promised a scholarship, ever. But, he was given two years of free school. He definitely could have stayed on as a senior as a non-scholarship guy, but decided someone else would pay for his school and left.
Payton - wasn't cut, left on his own, I don't think he ever graduated
Saunders - walk-on, injured, went into grad assistant spot
Smith - kicked off team for violating team rules
Webster - transferred on his own, didn't like MN, not run off
Hoff and Nolen - were not given scholarships from guys who were "cut"
From gophersports webpage-
University of Minnesota men’s basketball head coach Tubby Smith and the Golden Gopher basketball program today announced that guards Travis Busch and Kevin Payton will forgo their final season of eligibility at the University of Minnesota. Both players are seniors academically and are on schedule to graduate this spring.
howieramone
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Bryce, I'm curious as to your take on cutting players.
Bob_Loblaw
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The idea of cutting players or not-renewing players scholarship offers is disgusting. Part of being a Coach is being able to know who to give a scholarship to and who not to give a scholarship to. These Coaches are going into 16/17/18 year old kids home and asking them to attend the University of MN because THEY think they will help the basketball team. If the players don't turn out to be as good of basketball players as the Coaches hoped, they shouldn't get cut.
If I was a recruit or a recruit's parent and I knew that this kind of stuff was going on at a particular school, I would definitely hold that against the Coach.
If I was a recruit or a recruit's parent and I knew that this kind of stuff was going on at a particular school, I would definitely hold that against the Coach.
brucekaupa
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No more disgusting than players choosing to leave to play for another school. It's a 2-way street.
brucekaupa said:
Exactly. It's a two way street. If guys can transfer before 4 years is up why can't coaches cut them before 4 years is up?
However, I think anyone who is "cut" should not have to sit a year when they transfer.