goldenboy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,473
- Reaction score
- 851
- Points
- 113
Thompson, Ihnen and the four freshmen.
Well—Ramberg, too, I suppose.
Current Roster who you want to keep rankings
- Thread starter Otis
- Start date
Well—Ramberg, too, I suppose.
MNVCGUY
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2011
- Messages
- 20,079
- Reaction score
- 21,478
- Points
- 113
Yeah, way too early to give up on true freshman....it is always amazing how quickly some fans are ready to write a player off just because they struggle at the start of their career.
Gopher_In_NYC
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2010
- Messages
- 20,970
- Reaction score
- 14,617
- Points
- 113
Thanks.
Not sure how this wouldn’t factor into their decision making process - the ones who aren’t immediately eligible upon transferring.
Gopher_In_NYC
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2010
- Messages
- 20,970
- Reaction score
- 14,617
- Points
- 113
Great point - remembering how ineffective Aikman and Manning were in their rookie years.
well it goes beyond that....
Battle, Garcia, & Cooper pro ball overseas
Fox graduated and just want to hang it up after 2 injuries
bleedsmaroonandgold
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2011
- Messages
- 7,087
- Reaction score
- 2,362
- Points
- 113
+1
Way too early, at an individual level, to write off any one freshman. Unfortunately, to some extent, they are all victims of how poorly this team has been put together. I think for the fan base at large, if you have a competitive team and there are a few freshmen with some growing pains, it is easier to see that for what it is. With a team as bad as ours, it is easier to lump them in with an ever-growing list of complaints about a team that is sitting at the bottom of the conference (and a long way from 13th) that appears to have no real identity or strength.
Otis
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2014
- Messages
- 5,786
- Reaction score
- 2,928
- Points
- 113
This thread is about who you want to build with for next year. So who do you keep to build with?
Garcia, Evans, JoJ, Christie, Payne, Henley, and Betts are the ones you definitely need to keep. Because they have potential.
Cooper should be expendable but is the only PG on the roster.
Carrington I don’t think has had a chance yet to prove himself. He suffers from not doing great in extremely limited time. He did have a 20 pt game though.
Battle is a good player but he has one year left and you know what he is. He could go or stay and not have much effect on the bottom line except slow development of others. This is why he is expendable. How many of you would start him ahead of Garcia and JoJ next year?
TT is pretty much done and should transfer. St. Thomas?
Fox and Ihnen are unknowns, we don’t see them rehabilitating or working out. Only an insider is going to know what they are capable of and then you have to trust their judgement, which is currently in question.
Sorry for being blunt about Battle, he just is what he is and doesn’t fit well. I also think his future pro career is going to be very limited.
You would think so but the problem is that the NCAA acts like a legalistic, limiting society when making rules but a banana republic when it comes to enforcing them.
Gopher_In_NYC
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2010
- Messages
- 20,970
- Reaction score
- 14,617
- Points
- 113
To clarify, my point was if Garcia has to sit out a year if he’s going to transfer, why would he? He’ll be a year older then and that’s not an asset if he wants to play in the NBA, which isn’t unreasonable. Being a stud playing on a bad or average team doesn’t hinder your draft status, plus he has his family situation.
Battle has only a year left, so no sense in him transferring either IMO. Cooper, has multiple years of eligibility left, but might not find a better team in P5
Yes, I don't think any of them have a particularly high probability of transferring. Battle may have the best chance of immediate eligibility since he might be able to graduate and apply for a waiver as a grad student. I don't think Garcia has done enough yet to attract much interest from the NBA or higher paying foreign clubs. If he goes somewhere else and is allowed to play, he could get more positive exposure by playing on a more successful team but may not get the same level of playing time. In terms of playing time, I think that here is as good as it gets for Cooper unless he moved well down the mid-major ranks.
Wet_Blanket_Guy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2019
- Messages
- 1,547
- Reaction score
- 1,268
- Points
- 113
I agree with most of what you said, but I think Carrington has proven who he is...and that is a low level D1 player. He is not an attacker and shoots low %s. (his 20Pt game was against weak competition so its not a strong argument *20 pts was against Arkansas Pine-Bluff. The only other time he scored double digits was against UNLV, not a P5 conference) *shoots 29% on treys
TT honestly would probably get destroyed in the Summit. There are lots of big guys who are strong and don't have skill in the summit. Those guys would crush TT with size and muscle (going deep in your memory banks, when Gophers recruited Rickert, UMD came to the Barn and almost beat the Gophers, they had a C named Jason Schneeweis, guy was a 6'9" 280" chiseled mountain of a man...there a lots of these guys in the Summit. Not skilled, but damn could he move people...and he would move TT.
Fox - two many injuries and never proved anything at the D1 level, big jump from NSIC to B10 (and that was before his knees exploded...move on)
Ihnen - he showed nothing in two years of playing before the injuries, I don't think he turned into a stellar 3 and D guy (which relies on athleticism) while recovering from knee injuries these past two years)...time to move on from him *plus Ben thought he could play guard*
Ihnen showed in his second year that he could defend and rebound in space. What the state of his athleticism and skill set is after two years of injuries is- I don't know. But if defense is of value (it is) then I think he could play a valuable role here. On offense I really like him stationed where Ben errantly places Payne today (IMO). Pitino had him set up at the high post and it had a good look and Ihnen was at least a moderate threat to score from there versus Payne, who for now, can be ignored at the top of the circle.
Wet_Blanket_Guy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2019
- Messages
- 1,547
- Reaction score
- 1,268
- Points
- 113
But defense relies on athleticism to an extent...and his will be tested (due to multiple knee surgeries).
i would 100%.
IF and thats a big if, we get a PG who can get to the hoop and create on his own. and you take that part away from Battle and he is more of a set 3 point shooter waiting for kick outs or running him off screens he would still be a major part of this team.
Plus. Payne/Evans im not sure either will be ready to start at the 5 at the start of next year. So we are still probably looking at starting Garcia/Battle/JOJ as our starting front court
Of course.
Payne will be ready to start as a low post 5 next year. If the current offense is kept in place (hope not)- that may or may not be a problem depending on his ability to develop an off the dribble game or a mid range shot.
yeah we dont know that yet.....im not convinced from what i seen that it would be better than starting Garcia, Battle, JOJ
in a perfect world Payne will be starting. We have our Stud PG that can make things happen. And Battle is starting and hovering around the 3 point line and running off screens and the only thing he needs to do is shoot and not try to create on his own.
JOJ is the first forward off the bench
Let me rephrase. Payne has the ability to be developed, I don't think there is any doubt about that. The question is whether or not this staff can get him to the next level, to be a good Big Ten starting center by next season. That should be an expectation. He has the athleticism to become a PF as well, IF they can get him there. Of course a lot of that is up to him. His HS coach if I recall correctly seemed to think that his pace of development was amazing while in HS.
This will likely take care of itself after a terrible season. One of Garcia and Battle will likely transfer. I can see Cooper gone too. Then at least 1of the freshmen will be gone along with TT.
Ben will have to bring in a PG that can penetrate and guard someone. He also needs someone that can shoot the dang ball. It's embarrassing the way this team plays offense and shoots the ball.
Ben will have to bring in a PG that can penetrate and guard someone. He also needs someone that can shoot the dang ball. It's embarrassing the way this team plays offense and shoots the ball.
Bob_Loblaw
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2009
- Messages
- 20,777
- Reaction score
- 16,246
- Points
- 113
Unfortunately, if he is immediately good enough to make us competent, he'll be gone after 1 year.
Actually- that would be okay! If you can get a reputation for sending a kid into the league (if that's where he would go after year 1) then you will get more really good recruits. I will risk that for a year of competence here.
short ornery norwegian
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2011
- Messages
- 21,418
- Reaction score
- 15,268
- Points
- 113
with all due respect, I see a lot of people saying "get rid of half the roster and replace them with better players from the portal."
That assumes that, #1 - several players want to leave or can be convinced to leave, and
#2 - MN can locate and sign multiple higher-quality portal players.
It's not like going to the portal store and just grabbing players off the shelf. the players in the portal have to want to come to your school.
what does MN have to entice them? our booming NIL program offering 6-figure deals? Nope.
"go out and get better players" sounds like great advice. but actually making it happen - not so easy.
That assumes that, #1 - several players want to leave or can be convinced to leave, and
#2 - MN can locate and sign multiple higher-quality portal players.
It's not like going to the portal store and just grabbing players off the shelf. the players in the portal have to want to come to your school.
what does MN have to entice them? our booming NIL program offering 6-figure deals? Nope.
"go out and get better players" sounds like great advice. but actually making it happen - not so easy.
Dupreefor3
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2022
- Messages
- 439
- Reaction score
- 472
- Points
- 63
Agreed Battle a defensive liability because he's being asked to do something he's not capable of. The year Hofff had to play PG I always tell people the real issue was asking Rodney to play the two, Mbakwe to play the three and Ralph to play the four. It's the same concept with Battle. Unfortunately for him though Garcia a taller and better version of him but if last year showed anything Battle is very capable big ten stretch four and he would have many suitors as a grad transfer in the portal. Both Battle and Garcia are very good pieces, but they don't fit together or at least not in the way Ben wants to play
Dupreefor3
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2022
- Messages
- 439
- Reaction score
- 472
- Points
- 63
Plus you still have Payne
Off-GridTNgopher
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2010
- Messages
- 1,881
- Reaction score
- 1,513
- Points
- 113
Jim carry did marry her... So technically he did bed her....
Gopherfan84
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2012
- Messages
- 4,536
- Reaction score
- 3,281
- Points
- 113
How are you going to get this stud portal wing with a piddly NIL against other P5 schools who are offering a bag?
I think Carrington is more than a shooter. Honestly he’s an above average shooter only. He’s a plus defender and plays smart. There is no way I’d move off of him as he’s that depth guard that we need.
GopherWeatherGuy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2013
- Messages
- 15,980
- Reaction score
- 14,807
- Points
- 113
How do so many other schools do it with the same NIL situation as us, or no NIL like in the case of Northwestern? How does PJ remain competitive in football with a piddly NIL?
You sound like Tracy Claeys making excuses about switching to a 3-4 because 'all the good defensive lineman go to the helmet schools' and they couldn't recruit them here. Then PJ came in and moved back to the 4-3, has made the D even better, and put multiple defensive lineman in the NFL.
A good coach will find the recruits needed to win at whatever position. Stop making up these pathetic excuses about how our NIL can't get recruits here. If Ben can't find better guards and wings, which there are plenty of in the portal every year, it's because he's not a good enough recruiter and coach to do so. That's it.
Gopherfan84
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2012
- Messages
- 4,536
- Reaction score
- 3,281
- Points
- 113
Yet Wisconsin is a top 20 defensive team every year. There is a level of athleticism that is required to belong at the D1 level. You can be on the lower end of that scale and still be a really good defender. Gabe K is a great example. Tyler Wahl is another one. Bring a great defender requires awareness, grit, and effort. You don’t need elite athleticism to be an elite defender.