Coyle says changes could be coming to Gopher sports department

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I for one will be absolutely devastated if they get rid of baseball.

According to the University's financial reports from 2023 the sports are generating the following for profits/losses:
M Football: $35,020,493
M Basketball: $8,796,453
M Hockey: -$270,290
M Golf: -$544,163
W Golf: -$889,955
W Tennis: -$1,104,268
M Swim: -$1,253,055
W Gym: -$1,308,598
W Swim: -$1,529,398
M Wrestling: -$1,565,982
W Soccer: -$1,596,715
W Softball: -$1,995,502
W Rowing: -$2,053,653
M Baseball: -$2,102,017
M Track: -$2,279,468
W Volleyball: -$2,401,197
W Hockey: -$2,686,933
W Track: -$2,838,832
W Basketball: -$4,995,844

I know they're never going to cut women's sports but they really need to stop the bleeding for women's volleyball + basketball. Those 2 sports generate a decent amount of revenue but the expenses are WAY higher than baseball.
 
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DarrenTheGreek said:
I know they're never going to cut women's sports but they really need to cut the bleeding for women's volleyball + basketball. Those 2 sports generate a decent amount of revenue but the expenses are WAY higher than baseball.
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Agreed. And they should be able to generate more revenue from those two sports, plus softball. It's been a few years now since I have spoken to anyone about this, but at that time there was a reluctance to increase ticket and donation levels for volleyball and softball because they were viewed as "family friendly" options and people were concerned that women and girls were less likely to make increased financial commitments. So they were selling almost all the ticket inventory at prices that were lower what it appeared that the market could support. If we are moving toward a framework where football and men's basketball are going to be able to keep more of the revenue they produce, it might be time to re-visit those notions.
 

2nd Degree Gopher said:
Agreed. And they should be able to generate more revenue from those two sports, plus softball. It's been a few years now since I have spoken to anyone about this, but at that time there was a reluctance to increase ticket and donation levels for volleyball and softball because they were viewed as "family friendly" options and people were concerned that women and girls were less likely to make increased financial commitments. So they were selling almost all the ticket inventory at prices that were lower what it appeared that the market could support. If we are moving toward a framework where football and men's basketball are going to be able to keep more of the revenue they produce, it might be time to re-visit those notions.
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Nice post.

Maybe another angle, and this isn't meant to come off as rude, would be to have them play more locally. I don't really care how most of these teams (men and women's) compete against other big ten schools, but I'd be interested in how they compete against local schools. Like, I'll never go to a gopher baseball game against big ten teams, but if they competed against St. Thomas and such yearly, I'd at least have some interest. Almost like glorified high school sports, where the rivalries are cool.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
Nice post.

Maybe another angle, and this isn't meant to come off as rude, would be to have them play more locally. I don't really care how most of these teams (men and women's) compete against other big ten schools, but I'd be interested in how they compete against local schools. Like, I'll never go to a gopher baseball game against big ten teams, but if they competed against St. Thomas and such yearly, I'd at least have some interest. Almost like glorified high school sports, where the rivalries are cool.
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I'm just the opposite. Zero interest in games against school's like St. Thomas. More likely to go vs a big ten rival or a national powerhouse team that's from a different conference. Either way, baseball will just never generate a lot of revenue here.
 

Word said:
I'm just the opposite. Zero interest in games against school's like St. Thomas. More likely to go vs a big ten rival or a national powerhouse team that's from a different conference. Either way, baseball will just never generate a lot of revenue here.
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You're right, there's probably people who would stop watching and it'd be a break even situation in terms of the number of fans. I guess it would reduce travel costs though.
 





HitMeAgainIAmStillMoving said:
W Rowing: -$2,053,653

You dont have to rent the water. How do you spend 2 million on rowing?
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After $202k in revenue (roughly $50k from contributions and another $150k from "indirect institutional support" the operating expenses were:
$961,836 scholarships for 21.7 athletes
$144,850 Head Coach
$186,946 Assistant Coaches (3)
$71,391 Support Staff + Bonuses
$24,767 Recruiting
$393,045 Team Travel
$97,896 Equipment + Uniforms
$144,960 Facilities (Debt Service, Leases, Rental Fees)
$118,609 Admin Expenses (maintenance, security, equipment repair, etc.,)
$1,250 Membership, Conference and association Dues
$17,486 Student Meals (non-travel)
$93,189 Other
 



DarrenTheGreek said:
After $202k in revenue (roughly $50k from contributions and another $150k from "indirect institutional support" the operating expenses were:
$961,836 scholarships for 21.7 athletes
$144,850 Head Coach
$186,946 Assistant Coaches (3)
$71,391 Support Staff + Bonuses
$24,767 Recruiting
$393,045 Team Travel
$97,896 Equipment + Uniforms
$144,960 Facilities (Debt Service, Leases, Rental Fees)
$118,609 Admin Expenses (maintenance, security, equipment repair, etc.,)
$1,250 Membership, Conference and association Dues
$17,486 Student Meals (non-travel)
$93,189 Other
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That "other" bucket is extensive... Wonder that accounts for 🤔. Or maybe it isn't, I'm not an accountant
 


GophersInIowa said:
I have no idea if this makes sense for every sport (or not any sport) but maybe ditching the current conferences for non-revenue sports and creating new regional conferences could save on some travel costs. Most conferences are no longer regional so the travel costs have continued to increase I'm guessing.
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Yea, we could see planning realignments. I do not know what. Good points.
 

I just posted something in a thread about the House anti-trust case. the P4 conferences are reportedly setting new roster and scholarship limits, with some fairly significant changes from current practice. the kicker is that individual schools have the option to decide how many scholarships to give out for each sport, but they cannot exceed the roster limit.

So a school like MN - if it chooses - could decide to hand out fewer scholarships for certain sports if it is trying to set aside money for the new revenue-sharing agreement. but of course, if MN is not funding all of its scholarships for certain sports, that could lead to a recruiting or competitive disadvantage if other schools in the conference are funding sports to the full roster limit.

some big decisions facing Coyle & company in the new landscape of power-conference athletics.
 



DarrenTheGreek said:
I for one will be absolutely devastated if they get rid of baseball.

According to the University's financial reports from 2023 the sports are generating the following for profits/losses:
M Football: $35,020,493
M Basketball: $8,796,453
M Hockey: -$270,290
M Golf: -$544,163
W Golf: -$889,955
W Tennis: -$1,104,268
M Swim: -$1,253,055
W Gym: -$1,308,598
W Swim: -$1,529,398
M Wrestling: -$1,565,982
W Soccer: -$1,596,715
W Softball: -$1,995,502
W Rowing: -$2,053,653
M Baseball: -$2,102,017
M Track: -$2,279,468
W Volleyball: -$2,401,197
W Hockey: -$2,686,933
W Track: -$2,838,832
W Basketball: -$4,995,844

I know they're never going to cut women's sports but they really need to stop the bleeding for women's volleyball + basketball. Those 2 sports generate a decent amount of revenue but the expenses are WAY higher than baseball.
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Hockey with the ice rinks is expensive. In the State of Hockey those programs are untouchable.

Minnesota at every level subsidizes hockey. Think it's expensive for kids to play? It is way more expensive out East.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
Let them continue. If they are competing for the love of gymnastics or swimming, fine, but you don't need a scholarship to do it.



We have art because someone wanted to make it. If they managed to sell it and live off of the money, great for them. As for the art degree, it wouldn't bother me at all if it went away. I don't think society benefits at all from hundreds of art majors graduating every year and then entering food service careers. I am fine though with having a generic major for athletes that don't really want the education though.



I believe what you're getting at here is that the state subsidized part of it, right? I'll agree with that, but I think there's a difference between funding an education so someone can then earn significantly more money and thus pay more back in taxes versus subsidizing sports that very few people watch or are even aware of.

I don't think either of us are wrong or right. This is more about personal preference. You seem to prefer a scenario where everyone gets something where I prefer the scenario where the sports exist if they can support themselves.

Cheers.
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Name checks out.
 

DarrenTheGreek said:
I for one will be absolutely devastated if they get rid of baseball.

According to the University's financial reports from 2023 the sports are generating the following for profits/losses:
M Football: $35,020,493
M Basketball: $8,796,453
M Hockey: -$270,290
M Golf: -$544,163
W Golf: -$889,955
W Tennis: -$1,104,268
M Swim: -$1,253,055
W Gym: -$1,308,598
W Swim: -$1,529,398
M Wrestling: -$1,565,982
W Soccer: -$1,596,715
W Softball: -$1,995,502
W Rowing: -$2,053,653
M Baseball: -$2,102,017
M Track: -$2,279,468
W Volleyball: -$2,401,197
W Hockey: -$2,686,933
W Track: -$2,838,832
W Basketball: -$4,995,844

I know they're never going to cut women's sports but they really need to stop the bleeding for women's volleyball + basketball. Those 2 sports generate a decent amount of revenue but the expenses are WAY higher than baseball.
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The women are not protected and in fact scholarships would have to come off about equally to men. Keep the same ratio of scholarships. Equal axe hit.

The dollars may be inequal. Only the scholarship number counts.

Previously men did get the ax because the numbers were not balanced. Now they are balanced and have to ax about equally to stay balanced in the ratio.
 

Ski-U-Ham said:
That "other" bucket is extensive... Wonder that accounts for 🤔. Or maybe it isn't, I'm not an accountant
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Could be a number of things based upon the "buckets" listed above that mostly pertain directly to the costs of managing the team. Probably some shared campus costs that don't fall into admin expenses or facilities make up a portion. Could be housing for the rowers. Possibly stipends/outside medical costs/write-offs of uncollectable receivables/banquets or camps/etc....
 

Coyle owns some of this tho. The Ben raise after a last place finish was boobery.
 

M Hockey: -$270,290

I've always heard that men's hockey is one that turns a profit - is this just an accounting thing the department does or does it really not make a profit?
 

FireDaveLee said:
M Hockey: -$270,290

I've always heard that men's hockey is one that turns a profit - is this just an accounting thing the department does or does it really not make a profit?
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Maybe depends how you calculate hockey's pot of TV money. Selling 9,000 tickets a game for 21 games at $50-ish would net about $10 million just from tickets. I wonder what their expenses amount to?
 

One example of how a school cut losses -- after Katrina, Tulane (which was hammered by that Hurricane - they had to shut down the entire school for a semester) cut men's track, men's and women's tennis, men's and women's golf, women's swimming, women's soccer and men's cross-country. Then to get back in compliance with NCAA regs, they eventually added women's bowling and women's sand volleyball.

So they cut a lot of fairly expensive sports, and replaced them with fewer lower-cost sports, and pumped that savings into their football program (e.g., new stadium, increased coaching budgets, etc.). The football program got a lot better, and with that comes increased revenue from the team (e.g., they've moved up in conferences so the TV revenue is up), have increased ticket sales, more alumni contributions, etc.).

It's easier for a private school to restructure than a public one (and with Katrina Tulane did a lot of restructuring, more than just the athletics, they dropped entire academic departments and added new ones, re-did campus layouts, etc.). In the case of Tulane, it's worked well for them.
 

FireDaveLee said:
M Hockey: -$270,290

I've always heard that men's hockey is one that turns a profit - is this just an accounting thing the department does or does it really not make a profit?
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I don't have ready access to the numbers, but from what I remember, hockey historically made a profit. That changed as attendance dwindled toward the end of the Lucia era. They should be able to do better than break even over time.
 

FireDaveLee said:
M Hockey: -$270,290

I've always heard that men's hockey is one that turns a profit - is this just an accounting thing the department does or does it really not make a profit?
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2nd Degree Gopher said:
I don't have ready access to the numbers, but from what I remember, hockey historically made a profit. That changed as attendance dwindled toward the end of the Lucia era. They should be able to do better than break even over time.
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The switch to the Big 10 also cost them over $1 Million in lost broadcast rights that FSN was paying them.

I also think the Mariucci remodel last year came out of their budget.
 

Ope3 said:
The switch to the Big 10 also cost them over $1 Million in lost broadcast rights that FSN was paying them.

I also think the Mariucci remodel last year came out of their budget.
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So does none of the BTN revenue get allocated to hockey? Presumably, those broadcasts are part of the value of the BTN revenue.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
So does none of the BTN revenue get allocated to hockey? Presumably, those broadcasts are part of the value of the BTN revenue.
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Whatever revenue there is specifically from hockey I would guess gets split up amongst the Big 10 at large.

The dollar amounts I previously quoted, were what Lou Nanne has talked about on various local radio shows.
 

DarrenTheGreek said:
I for one will be absolutely devastated if they get rid of baseball.

According to the University's financial reports from 2023 the sports are generating the following for profits/losses:
M Football: $35,020,493
M Basketball: $8,796,453
M Hockey: -$270,290
M Golf: -$544,163
W Golf: -$889,955
W Tennis: -$1,104,268
M Swim: -$1,253,055
W Gym: -$1,308,598
W Swim: -$1,529,398
M Wrestling: -$1,565,982
W Soccer: -$1,596,715
W Softball: -$1,995,502
W Rowing: -$2,053,653
M Baseball: -$2,102,017
M Track: -$2,279,468
W Volleyball: -$2,401,197
W Hockey: -$2,686,933
W Track: -$2,838,832
W Basketball: -$4,995,844

I know they're never going to cut women's sports but they really need to stop the bleeding for women's volleyball + basketball. Those 2 sports generate a decent amount of revenue but the expenses are WAY higher than baseball.
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Softball is one of the fastest growing sports out there. Expenses are high probably from having to travel 80% of their season.
 


Do the zillions of dollars that The U supposedly rakes in from TV rights not offset these losses?
 

Vegwards said:
Do the zillions of dollars that The U supposedly rakes in from TV rights not offset these losses?
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that all depends on accounting. without a complete review of the athletic department's books, it's almost impossible to know how the TV revenue is accounted for. does that money go into one account, or is it divided up by each sport - with a % of TV money applied to the football budget, men's basketball, women's basketball, etc?

I assume that each sport has its own budget that lays out revenues and expenses. but to fully understand the budget, you would need to see exactly how those revenues and expenses are documented and allocated.

the athletic department is still paying off loans on Athlete's Village. where do those loan payments show up in the budget?

I am not accusing the U of MN of cooking the books. but within general accounting practices, there are still ways to make things look better or worse, depending on how they are handled.
 

Vegwards said:
Do the zillions of dollars that The U supposedly rakes in from TV rights not offset these losses?
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That's not really the question of concern. I think we could easily cover all expenses if we chose not to pay any of our football players. Of course, we'll head straight to the bottom if we choose that. So that's the delicate balance people are talking about.
 

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