could we have built to a 70K or 80K capacity right away?

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

just throwing this personal thought out there. considering how fast student season tickets went out the door and the large number of gopher fans on the season ticket waiting list (many who likely wanted to purchase 2 or more season tickets) who will not even have an opportunity to get season tickets could we have built to a 70K or 80K capacity right away rather than waiting?

also, my guess is there are a good number of other gopher football fans who wanted to buy season tickets, but didn't even get on the waiting list for this year because they knew they wouldn't have enough points to even be considered. likely they are hoping to get in once the stadium is expanded.

i get the idea around "building up demand" over a few years first, but it seems like perhaps there is already is enough gopher football fan demand for at least a 70K outdoor football stadium??

thoughts?

 

[anticallihan]

I am going to go not a chance.

Outdoors is the only draw to get up to the 70-80K range.. no sport but the vikings could draw that amount, but if you have not noticed they are not selling out either.

If we lowered season ticket prices, I would guess 60,000 was the best we could hope for as a sell out for the season.

I think they did everything perfect, and if we win... they will build demand for the product the right way.

I think considering our recent history of average attendance, they did the smartest thing and build a 50,000 seat stadium.

 

[DiehardGopher]

No way would building TCF as an 80k stadium have been the right move. If we had an extra 30k seats to work with right now we would be in thee same situation that we were in with the dome. Tons of dirty badger fans and alcoholic Iowa fans flooding the stadium. It would have been the absolute worst thing to do.

 

[Rouser]

Would have been foolish to build a big stadium when demand is not there. Demand is there for 50k. Nothing worse than an empty stadium right from the start. Also, would have been a bigger hurdle for fundraising.

 

[gophermartin]

How deep does the waiting list need to be for them to move forward with expansion? nm

The obvious answer is 30k. But is it?

Is it more like 20k? If they expanded the student section to 20k that would be less from the public.

Thoughts?

 

[GoAUpher]

just throwing this personal thought out there. considering how fast student season tickets went out the door and the large number of gopher fans on the season ticket waiting list (many who likely wanted to purchase 2 or more season tickets) who will not even have an opportunity to get season tickets could we have built to a 70K or 80K capacity right away rather than waiting?

also, my guess is there are a good number of other gopher football fans who wanted to buy season tickets, but didn't even get on the waiting list for this year because they knew they wouldn't have enough points to even be considered. likely they are hoping to get in once the stadium is expanded.

i get the idea around "building up demand" over a few years first, but it seems like perhaps there is already is enough gopher football fan demand for at least a 70K outdoor football stadium??

thoughts?

No. There isn't sustained demand. The newness of the stadium is what's pushing us into sellout territory. Anything bigger than 50K and we'd be back where we started...empty seats and too much red and black once a year. Also, we'd still be in the Dome as the project never would have been approved with the additional costs involved. Or, we would have had more seats with fewer ammenities to lure recruits and keep fans happy.

The obvious answer is 30k. But is it?

Is it more like 20k? If they expanded the student section to 20k that would be less from the public.

Thoughts?

The thing is, I don't think there is sustained student demand at that level either. While I think the increase in sales from the students is fantastic, there are certainly more impressive examples. PSU sells out a section that is over twice the size of ours in hours (if not less). My concern would be that if you raised the ticket allotment for the students you'd have to go to 2 per person to sell it out and we've seen what that does.

The U made the right choice. Going with 50K capacity did 2 big things:
1) it allowed the U to focus the money on building a great stadium versus a pretty good stadium.
2) it gives the team a chance to build on the excitement surrounding TCF to make it an ever hotter ticket.

 

[PlayHosea]

Excuse my ignorance here, but how great is the demand for tickets on campus? Are there tons of students who want to have tickets but can't get them?

 

[Go Gophers Rah]

I think they did the right thing in having it be a little smaller than demand warrants. As others have said, this makes getting tickets more of a "hot commodity" than if there were plenty to go around.

Having said that, I wish they would have sized it a little bigger so that it would have been larger than Memorial (IU); which is 53,500. As it stands, we have the 2nd smallest stadium in the conference behind NU's Ryan Field (49,256).

Not that I'm complaining.

 

[DarrenTheGreek]

The obvious answer is 30k. But is it?

Is it more like 20k? If they expanded the student section to 20k that would be less from the public.

Thoughts?

Since the stadium was built to be expanded in 10k increments, perhaps it will be expanded when the waiting list reaches 10-15k.

 

[Maximus]

Minnesota has averaged over 50,000....barely....twice.... in the last 20 years. And the only reason for that was we sold out the Iowa/Wisconsin game and drew a big crowd for each NDSU game.

The last 13 years at Memorial they never drew more than 46,000.

There won't ever be a consistent demand for 80,000.

 

[Maverick]

Minnesota has averaged over 50,000....barely....twice.... in the last 20 years. And the only reason for that was we sold out the Iowa/Wisconsin game and drew a big crowd for each NDSU game.

The last 13 years at Memorial they never drew more than 46,000.

There won't ever be a consistent demand for 80,000.

Ever is a pretty long time.

I prefer to believe that if the Gophers build a predictable and consistant winner (8+ per season 5+ Big Ten), challenge for the title every 3 to 5 years, and provide great entertainment and fun for the family, then over time, demand will grow and grow and grow to the point that there very well could be a consistent demand for 80,000 .....

 

[GoAUpher]

Having said that, I wish they would have sized it a little bigger so that it would have been larger than Memorial (IU); which is 53,500. As it stands, we have the 2nd smallest stadium in the conference behind NU's Ryan Field (49,256).

Since Indiana averages around 30K-35K per game and only sells out for Purdue or OSU I could honestly care less. What good is 53,500 seats (soon to be 5K more with the expansion) if you don't even come close to filling them?

 

[DarrenTheGreek]

Ever is a pretty long time.

I prefer to believe that if the Gophers build a predictable and consistant winner (8+ per season 5+ Big Ten), challenge for the title every 3 to 5 years, and provide great entertainment and fun for the family, then over time, demand will grow and grow and grow to the point that there very well could be a consistent demand for 80,000 .....

Maybe. Maybe not. Even though I like the Vikings, I don't think the Gophers can ever pass them in popularity as long as they are around. We are a professional sports market.

It will also be interesting to see how the campus handles 50k people on game days this fall.

 

[parkinglotgopher]

Excuse my ignorance here, but how great is the demand for tickets on campus? Are there tons of students who want to have tickets but can't get them?

PH - no numbers or inside information here, but making educated guesses based on what I've seen. At this moment, I don't believe there are a bunch of kids walking around Dinkytown wondering how they missed the boat on student tickets. I do get the feeling that come Sept 12, there will be substantially more of these folks. Enough to sell an additional 5,000 tickets? My guess would be no. Enough to sell another 1,000 tickets, maybe 1,500? I'd guess yes.

 

[GMan]

Since the stadium was built to be expanded in 10k increments, perhaps it will be expanded when the waiting list reaches 10-15k.

Does anyone know how the 10k increments will be added?

 

[highwayman]

I am going to go not a chance.

Outdoors is the only draw to get up to the 70-80K range.. no sport but the vikings could draw that amount, but if you have not noticed they are not selling out either.

If we lowered season ticket prices, I would guess 60,000 was the best we could hope for as a sell out for the season.

I think they did everything perfect, and if we win... they will build demand for the product the right way.

I think considering our recent history of average attendance, they did the smartest thing and build a 50,000 seat stadium.

I agree except for the ticket price comment. Less than $40 a game is too expensive? Playing at a new stadium, it's the best sports deal in town! The worst seats at Northwestern are $50.

For 2009
Twins will average $33
Vikings $73
Wolves $49
Wild $60

Yes, Twins will be cheaper, but for the college football spectacle, Gopher football tickets are a bargain!

 

[gophermartin]

Are they all gone???

PH - no numbers or inside information here, but making educated guesses based on what I've seen. At this moment, I don't believe there are a bunch of kids walking around Dinkytown wondering how they missed the boat on student tickets. I do get the feeling that come Sept 12, there will be substantially more of these folks. Enough to sell an additional 5,000 tickets? My guess would be no. Enough to sell another 1,000 tickets, maybe 1,500? I'd guess yes.

Are the 8000 student tix currently available actually all gone? I knew they were close to selling them all. (2000 for new students..freshmen).

GM

 

[littlebigboy]

They have priced the lower income gopher fans out. Also less kids from those familys. Thats what builds tradition and future fans. Would you rather have 20,000 cheaper seats and get people into gopher football and have 70,000 in the stadium or 50,000 that already have money and are already fans. I remember when the bleachers in front of Cooke Hall were full of HS band and football players, that were usually brought by HS or HS boosters. Most kids wanted to be gophers. THE KEY IS THE PROGRAM HAS TO WIN!!!!!

 

[GoAUpher]

They have priced the lower income gopher fans out. Also less kids from those familys. Thats what builds tradition and future fans. Would you rather have 20,000 cheaper seats and get people into gopher football and have 70,000 in the stadium or 50,000 that already have money and are already fans. I remember when the bleachers in front of Cooke Hall were full of HS band and football players, that were usually brought by HS or HS boosters. Most kids wanted to be gophers. THE KEY IS THE PROGRAM HAS TO WIN!!!!!

I'd love to have 20K cheaper seats and have a 70K crowd. The point is that the demand isn't there, even with cheaper seats. Like you said, it all comes down to W's.

Also when it comes to HS teams/bands/etc I've always assumed the reason the Athletic Dept has approx 2K seats was so they could use them to host groups like that.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

Ever is a pretty long time.

I prefer to believe that if the Gophers build a predictable and consistant winner (8+ per season 5+ Big Ten), challenge for the title every 3 to 5 years, and provide great entertainment and fun for the family, then over time, demand will grow and grow and grow to the point that there very well could be a consistent demand for 80,000 .....

It is extremely difficult to produce 5+ Big Ten wins. In the past ten years, the only teams to do that have been OSU at 6.0 and Michigan at 5.8. In the past five years. OSU, PSU, Wisconsin and Michigan have exceeded the mark.

In the past ten seasons, JoPA is 4.4, Ferentz 4.3 and Tiller 4.0. Alvarez averaged 4.4 in his last 7seasons.

I think the key is being in a position to win the BT on the last Saturday in November. That would generate a ton of interest that would likely have a carry-over. But our Gophers haven't done that in eons so its difficult to know how the fans would respond.

After the glitter of the new digs wears off, the Gophers will be hard challenged to fill the stadium unless Brewster can somehow, as Maverick stated, produce a consistent winner.

 

[GoAUpher]

Does anyone know how the 10k increments will be added?

I don't think anyone knows for sure, but my guess would be that top deck for the new seats would run GL to GL on the visitor side. Future expansions would then cover the remainder of the open/closed ends.

That would make the most sense from a quality of seat and asthetic perspective in case the demand never reached the full 80K that is possible.

 

[MrGopher]

I don't think anyone knows for sure, but my guess would be that top deck for the new seats would run GL to GL on the visitor side. Future expansions would then cover the remainder of the open/closed ends.

That would make the most sense from a quality of seat and asthetic perspective in case the demand never reached the full 80K that is possible.

I think that's about right, except i dont think that the open end will be touched in terms of expansion. It will stay open. Just the east end will gain an upper deck.

 

[GoAUpher]

I think that's about right, except i dont think that the open end will be touched in terms of expansion. It will stay open. Just the east end will gain an upper deck.

Oops, I should have been more clear. To clarify, I meant future expansion would extend the 3rd deck from the open end GL out to the current end of the 2nd deck (over section 201). As you say, all areas on the open end that are currently open will always remain so.

 

[maroonfive]

70,000 would be about right

Would they fill in the lower level with chairbacks and make the expansion all bleachers? This is what I think they should do and make the capacity from 65,000 to 70,000.

Go Gophers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GMan]

I agree 65,000 - 70,000 is about right. I really don't see any reason to build another level in the end zone. The only people that would want to buy those tickets are Wisconsin and Iowa fans.

 

[DarrenTheGreek]

As long as the expansion doesn't make TCF look like an erector set like PSU's stadium has become.

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

I hadn't heard about the 10k increments for expansion - that is a good idea. My preference all along would have been for 60k right away - to accomodate students and season-ticket holders and to pick up extra revenue for border rival games. 50k seems too small for a major college program.

 

[GoAUpher]

As long as the expansion doesn't make TCF look like an erector set like PSU's stadium has become.

TCF was built with the expansion in mind. The footings and base for the final deck is already in place. When they add more seats it will look as though it was there from the start rather than slapped on.

 

[GoAUpher]

Would they fill in the lower level with chairbacks and make the expansion all bleachers? This is what I think they should do and make the capacity from 65,000 to 70,000.

Go Gophers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Based on what I've seen and heard I'm guessing that they wouldn't change the seating in the existing levels when they add the upper level. As for what seats the new deck would have, I don't think anyone knows.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

As long as the expansion doesn't make TCF look like an erector set like PSU's stadium has become.

You may be a geek but you aint wrong...Happy Valley looks like a two year old went nuts.

That said, watching a game and being in that enviroment would make it worth while to play in a corn field next the sewage treatment plant and the hog confinement two miles from anywhere like PSU does. PSU, Michigan, Nebraska - three favorite game day experiences. (Haven't been to Tn or tOSU yet).

We win and everything gets better...keep losing and TCF will have to change it's name from the Bank to the Piggy Bank as attendance will dwindle just as it did at the dome.

Go Gophs!