Commit #26

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Here's what I came up with. I converted down from an 11.00 100m guy, broke it down into acceleration phase and top end speed phase, and went from there. From what I have learned, it takes 25 - 30 meters for 100m guys to get up to top speed. I figured 20m due to the shortness of the sprint and the urgency to get up to top speed. From what I have seen in my years of coaching and running track, an 11 flat 100m guy can run right around 10 m/s top end speed. So if it takes 3 seconds to accelerate for 20m up to top speed and then average 10 m/s the rest of the way, (8 seconds for 80 meters) you get 11 flat. Obviously this is just an estimate and everyone is different, but let's just go with it. Using those speeds and distances, it would take 3 seconds to go 21.87 yards (20m), the remaining 18.13 yards would be covered at 10.94 yd/sec (10 m/s) for an additional 1.66 seconds making the total 40 a 4.66.

Obviously this is an estimate, and maybe some of my assumptions are off, but I doubt that all of those recruits run 10.60 to 10.80 in the 100m to convert to a 4.4 to 4.5 40.
 

Schnoodler said:
You've got start time reaction, running start, iffy timing, to many weird things that make it totally unreliable and not even reflective of the sport for which they're measuring.

Interesting quote about the fastest track 40 ever:

Let me give you one more example to prove my point. In 1988 Ben
Johnson ran a then world record of 9.79 seconds to win the Olympic
Gold medal.

Well it turns out that he was on steroids at the time and was
stripped of his title.

Subsequent breakdowns of his 'roid induced run timed him as he
reached the 40 yard mark. (By the way his times at 50 and 60
meters were faster than the current world records at that
distance.)

His time?

4.38 seconds.

Mark Zeigler sums this up perfectly:

"He was running in spikes . . . on a warm afternoon perfectly
suited for sprinting . . . with a slight tailwind . . . with
years of training from arguably track's top coach, Charlie
Francis . . . with Carl Lewis and six others of the fastest men
on the planet chasing him . . . with 69,000 people roaring at
Seoul's Olympic Stadium . . . with hundreds of millions of
people watching on TV . . . with the ultimate prize in sports,
an Olympic gold medal, at stake."

Yet he only ran a 4.38 40 yard dash?
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Thanks for the conversation about this topic Schnoodler. As a track guy, 40 times have always bugged me.:)
 

Here's some math.

The basic math suggest that 40 yards is roughly .367% of the distance in a 100m dash.
Let's take your fast but not super fast kid in HS that maybe runs a 11.4 100m in track. 3.67% of 11.4 = 4.18

Now if you remember that in track there is the additional burden of reaction time at the start (.24 sec) and time lost to acceleration somewhere in that 100 meters is a much fast 40 than the average of 4.18. Maybe under 4 even.

Consider that there are different ways to measure the 40 for football, one of which is a running start. It's amazing we're not seeing crazy low times.

To highlight how low it could go let's look back at the Ben Johnson example. They actually got his time at the 40 mark. so you can through simple subtraction get his fastest 40 as elite sprinters don't slow down, the last forty yards would be his fastest. In high school except for the best conditioned your probably looking at the 40 yd mark to the 80. His forty yard mark was 4.38 his full time was 9.79. There is roughly 109 yards in a 100m. Thus his last 69 yards was at 5.31. If you factor that back to a forty his fastest 40 could have been 3.12.

So for the creative coaches out there, create whatever forty time you want.

In fact it would seem like we have some restraint being applied to keep this from happening.

Now using Ben Johnsons example, and using a touch pad to eliminate reaction time, and/or hand held timing, the first 40 yards of Ben Johnsons run was 44.7% of his run. So the equivalent of a 4.5 is 10.07, add .24 for reaction (because of the touch pad)and your looking at a 10.31 100m time. How many kids are doing that? No matter how you look at it, those 40 times to us mean nothing. At a combine maybe more.

using the same math, a kid sprorting a 4.35 forty has a 100 equvalent of 9.97. i don't think so.
 

The forty times listed by Rivals, Scout, ect for High School athletes are a joke. They simply list way too many kids as running in the 4.4's or 4.5's. Look to the NFL combine which takes only the cream of the crop from the college ranks. The best players in college spend a month or more specifically training for the combine and the 40 in particular. They learn techniques like how to get more out of their first or second step and how to run through the line to get the best time possible. Further, many of the skill position athletes will drop anywhere between 5 and 10lbs specifically to run a better 49 time at the combine.

Here are the results for last year: http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers

If kids were as fast as Rivals/Scout claimed coming out of high school, these times would be much faster.
 

Being an ex DB in the old days, you'd be suprised how fast you can run if somebody gets by you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 


Re.
I do find it strange that we have not landed a DE/pass rusher in this class despite having so many commits. I hope that area of the team is addressed by signing day.[/QUOTE]

DE position looks like a possible strength (despite the youth). They have four young guys that they are high on: Hageman - someone told me that he looks like he might become the next "Suh" - he may end up at DT b/c he is already 285-290, KGM - said to be the fastest DE, heard he was encouraged to learn both DE positions - - -apparently, coaches would like to see Hageman and KGM on the field together, Garin - other players say his technique and motor are great, size is the only worry at 230, and DL Wilhite has a lot of the same upside/size as Garin, but he also has experience. Will be interesting to see how these four shake out.

I expect to see Hageman as a starter next fall. Looks like the other starting spot will be more difficult to call.
 

one deeps @ D.E. next season

MNRideorDieChick
Junior Member

DE position looks like a possible strength (despite the youth). They have four young guys that they are high on: Hageman - someone told me that he looks like he might become the next "Suh" - he may end up at DT b/c he is already 285-290, KGM - said to be the fastest DE, heard he was encouraged to learn both DE positions - - -apparently, coaches would like to see Hageman and KGM on the field together, Garin - other players say his technique and motor are great, size is the only worry at 230, and DL Wilhite has a lot of the same upside/size as Garin, but he also has experience. Will be interesting to see how these four shake out.

I expect to see Hageman as a starter next fall. Looks like the other starting spot will be more difficult to call.


AFTER attending several bowl practices before the seniors come out and the coaching staff is working with next years roster the ones @ D.E were Jacobs and Wlhite
Both have excellent work ethic both were named to the big 10 all academic team both have returning experience Jacobs will be a junior Wilhite a red shirt sophmore

Jacobs lined up at the point Wilhite lined up at the rush or wide
Jacobs is probably the strongest of all the D.E and Wilhite is the fastest with the best first step

Wilhite was named defensive freshman of the year at the football banquet as well as being named to some all American all frosh squads
Unless something drastic happens those two will be your one deeps on the edge next year
 

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