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CPTMidnight

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College basketball does not work the same way it did when Ben started which is a startling fact considering he has only been here 3 years. Most are still trying to grasp what this means.

One thing it means is that local kids might leave, or might stay, or might leave and then come back all based on dollars being thrown around in April of each year. This is going to be tough for many to come to terms with but the sooner people understand this the sooner we can begin to fix some of these problems.

For example: If you are mad at kids for not playing for the home team it is about the same as knocking a local baseball prospect for not signing with the Twins farm system. Sure - you could be mad at this kid but nobody is listening because it is just business for the teams involved and for the player. The players assume you would quit your job and move on if you got a better offer - why not them?

Some of you need to adjust expectations for the "amature" basketball league we follow:
  • Teams will be rebuilt every year and if you changes coaches you may lose all your players.
  • You will lose players to the portal every year (Everyone, every year)
  • Evaluating portal talent, quickly crafting rosters, and selling portal candidates will be the most important coaching talents required
  • AD's ability to support the local NIL programs will become their most important contribution and their primary measure of success/failure.
  • Big money programs will simply win the most games. Complaining wont help - start donating.
  • Any team ("ANY") with a rich enough benefactor can put together a highly competitive team.
  • Players will NOW make decisions based on the following: Education, Coaches ability to sell the next year's vision/roster, development/in-game coaching reputation, potential to be on a "special" team, & financial compensation (not in that order)
  • Kids without playing time may be more likely to move if they feel like they can get to an NIL level at another team.
  • The less talented kid is more likely he is to stay with your team and clutter up your roster.
  • Coaches will be looking for more flexibility in terminating scholarships.
  • Some players will change teams every single year just to make the most money
  • Players will have much more power and some legacy coaches will not be able to make this transition and will begin to retire.
  • With rosters changing so quickly some teams will go from last to first and the reverse. So... rebuilding is not really a thing anymore. Just reload and win next year.
  • Teams with an established base of financial support and existing success will be more likely to continue as they likely will have more NIL to offer out of the gate and the earlier success will only help their future donations
  • Athletic departments may be in the position to need to decline donations and ask people to move giving to the NIL programs
  • Probably a lot more that I am missing...
I am not saying I like it - but the only people not making money in a 100 billion dollar industry have found a way to get paid and they are not going back.

Is Ben a good coach for the new paradigm? Can Coyle indirectly help bring dollars to the players to create winning programs? Will local business get on board? I guess we shall see...
 


The Ivy League will be the future blue bloods if they get smart. Think of all those rich alumi.

What's a couple million a year to a billionaire hedge fund owner?
 


CPTMidnight said:
College basketball does not work the same way it did when Ben started which is a startling fact considering he has only been here 3 years. Most are still trying to grasp what this means.

One thing it means is that local kids might leave, or might stay, or might leave and then come back all based on dollars being thrown around in April of each year. This is going to be tough for many to come to terms with but the sooner people understand this the sooner we can begin to fix some of these problems.

For example: If you are mad at kids for not playing for the home team it is about the same as knocking a local baseball prospect for not signing with the Twins farm system. Sure - you could be mad at this kid but nobody is listening because it is just business for the teams involved and for the player. The players assume you would quit your job and move on if you got a better offer - why not them?

Some of you need to adjust expectations for the "amature" basketball league we follow:
  • Teams will be rebuilt every year and if you changes coaches you may lose all your players.
  • You will lose players to the portal every year (Everyone, every year)
  • Evaluating portal talent, quickly crafting rosters, and selling portal candidates will be the most important coaching talents required
  • AD's ability to support the local NIL programs will become their most important contribution and their primary measure of success/failure.
  • Big money programs will simply win the most games. Complaining wont help - start donating.
  • Any team ("ANY") with a rich enough benefactor can put together a highly competitive team.
  • Players will NOW make decisions based on the following: Education, Coaches ability to sell the next year's vision/roster, development/in-game coaching reputation, potential to be on a "special" team, & financial compensation (not in that order)
  • Kids without playing time may be more likely to move if they feel like they can get to an NIL level at another team.
  • The less talented kid is more likely he is to stay with your team and clutter up your roster.
  • Coaches will be looking for more flexibility in terminating scholarships.
  • Some players will change teams every single year just to make the most money
  • Players will have much more power and some legacy coaches will not be able to make this transition and will begin to retire.
  • With rosters changing so quickly some teams will go from last to first and the reverse. So... rebuilding is not really a thing anymore. Just reload and win next year.
  • Teams with an established base of financial support and existing success will be more likely to continue as they likely will have more NIL to offer out of the gate and the earlier success will only help their future donations
  • Athletic departments may be in the position to need to decline donations and ask people to move giving to the NIL programs
  • Probably a lot more that I am missing...
I am not saying I like it - but the only people not making money in a 100 billion dollar industry have found a way to get paid and they are not going back.

Is Ben a good coach for the new paradigm? Can Coyle indirectly help bring dollars to the players to create winning programs? Will local business get on board? I guess we shall see...
Click to expand...

All of these things were true when Ben was hired. That is a fact.
 


TruthSeeker said:
The Ivy League will be the future blue bloods if they get smart. Think of all those rich alumi.

What's a couple million a year to a billionaire hedge fund owner?
Click to expand...
Problem is those hedge fund managers are not likely going to be die hard fans of the program willing to drop ridiculous amounts of money on college athletes in order to help the program win. Guess that person will find a much more productive way to use that money.
 

CPTMidnight said:
College basketball does not work the same way it did when Ben started which is a startling fact considering he has only been here 3 years. Most are still trying to grasp what this means.

One thing it means is that local kids might leave, or might stay, or might leave and then come back all based on dollars being thrown around in April of each year. This is going to be tough for many to come to terms with but the sooner people understand this the sooner we can begin to fix some of these problems.

For example: If you are mad at kids for not playing for the home team it is about the same as knocking a local baseball prospect for not signing with the Twins farm system. Sure - you could be mad at this kid but nobody is listening because it is just business for the teams involved and for the player. The players assume you would quit your job and move on if you got a better offer - why not them?

Some of you need to adjust expectations for the "amature" basketball league we follow:
  • Teams will be rebuilt every year and if you changes coaches you may lose all your players.
  • You will lose players to the portal every year (Everyone, every year)
  • Evaluating portal talent, quickly crafting rosters, and selling portal candidates will be the most important coaching talents required
  • AD's ability to support the local NIL programs will become their most important contribution and their primary measure of success/failure.
  • Big money programs will simply win the most games. Complaining wont help - start donating.
  • Any team ("ANY") with a rich enough benefactor can put together a highly competitive team.
  • Players will NOW make decisions based on the following: Education, Coaches ability to sell the next year's vision/roster, development/in-game coaching reputation, potential to be on a "special" team, & financial compensation (not in that order)
  • Kids without playing time may be more likely to move if they feel like they can get to an NIL level at another team.
  • The less talented kid is more likely he is to stay with your team and clutter up your roster.
  • Coaches will be looking for more flexibility in terminating scholarships.
  • Some players will change teams every single year just to make the most money
  • Players will have much more power and some legacy coaches will not be able to make this transition and will begin to retire.
  • With rosters changing so quickly some teams will go from last to first and the reverse. So... rebuilding is not really a thing anymore. Just reload and win next year.
  • Teams with an established base of financial support and existing success will be more likely to continue as they likely will have more NIL to offer out of the gate and the earlier success will only help their future donations
  • Athletic departments may be in the position to need to decline donations and ask people to move giving to the NIL programs
  • Probably a lot more that I am missing...
I am not saying I like it - but the only people not making money in a 100 billion dollar industry have found a way to get paid and they are not going back.

Is Ben a good coach for the new paradigm? Can Coyle indirectly help bring dollars to the players to create winning programs? Will local business get on board? I guess we shall see...
Click to expand...
You preach better than I do.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
All of these things were true when Ben was hired. That is a fact.
Click to expand...

FWIW -
Ben Johnson hired - March 2021
Transfer rules changed to allow 1-time free transfer -- April 2021
NIL rules changed to allow athletes to profit off name, image and likeness -- July 2021

so the two most significant changes to college sports happened shortly after Johnson was hired.

now, I assume these rule changes were in the works at the time, and Coyle presumably knew that changes were coming. but you would really have to be Nostradamus to have been able to predict how much D1 sports were about to change.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Problem is those hedge fund managers are not likely going to be die hard fans of the program willing to drop ridiculous amounts of money on college athletes in order to help the program win. Guess that person will find a much more productive way to use that money.
Click to expand...

You know, billionaires and multi-multi millionaires in the financial sector buy sports teams (either alone or as part of a consortium). I would think donating big bucks to a college NIL fund would be a lot cheaper.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
All of these things were true when Ben was hired. That is a fact.
Click to expand...

Do you have conversations with random strangers that go like this ----

Random Stranger: "Nice day, huh, buddy?"

You: "Nice day? There are no nice days as long as Ben Johnson is destroying the Minnesota basketball program!"

Random Stranger: "What? I was just talking about the weather!"
 

short ornery norwegian said:
FWIW -
Ben Johnson hired - March 2021
Transfer rules changed to allow 1-time free transfer -- April 2021
NIL rules changed to allow athletes to profit off name, image and likeness -- July 2021

so the two most significant changes to college sports happened shortly after Johnson was hired.

now, I assume these rule changes were in the works at the time, and Coyle presumably knew that changes were coming. but you would really have to be Nostradamus to have been able to predict how much D1 sports were about to change.
Click to expand...

Then how did Ben possibly inherit an empty roster when he was hired if the transfer rule wasn't in place until a week later?

As far as NIL, that has far less of an impact than the transfer portal. Players have been going to the highest bidders for decades. The Gophers remain on a level playing field with the majority of the P6 there. There's also many examples of teams who shell out a ton in NIL who missed the NCAA tournament or had an early exit this season and teams that are very successful with little to no NIL.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
You know, billionaires and multi-multi millionaires in the financial sector buy sports teams (either alone or as part of a consortium). I would think donating big bucks to a college NIL fund would be a lot cheaper.
Click to expand...
Buying a team is an investment because those teams tend to go up in value. NIL/Pay for Play is just glorified fantasy sports where you try to buy the best team you can for a year and then do it all over again.

Gotta be a pretty diehard fan to throw big piles of money into he current messed up system. And betting those rich IVY league types probably don't fall into the same category of the rich boosters down in the SEC in terms of passion towards their team and desire to win in sports :)
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
You know, billionaires and multi-multi millionaires in the financial sector buy sports teams (either alone or as part of a consortium). I would think donating big bucks to a college NIL fund would be a lot cheaper.
Click to expand...
No return on investment giving cash to college athletes. Buying and selling a team builds substantial wealth.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Then how did Ben possibly inherit an empty roster when he was hired if the transfer rule wasn't in place until a week later?

As far as NIL, that has far less of an impact than the transfer portal. Players have been going to the highest bidders for decades. The Gophers remain on a level playing field with the majority of the P6 there. There's also many examples of teams who shell out a ton in NIL who missed the NCAA tournament or had an early exit this season and teams that are very successful with little to no NIL.
Click to expand...
The portal plus direct payments is still in its infancy. I am only trying to look ahead a couple of years to see what the world looks like.

Is it possible that some teams will be very bad at it and burn lots of money for nothing? Yes - already happening. Could some teams do more with less? Absolutely. Is it possible that a bunch of non NIL players might still make up a Cinderella team that shocks everyone? I certainly hope so...
 

Yeah. I can't believe that some of you are still talking about coaching. As if that's our problem.

But here's something you're missing. Just because we have a fund doesn't mean that our administration will use it to pay for great players. They might use it to pay for other sports or for general expenses or something. They've always been against having great football & basketball teams.

In this case...I actually couldn't blame them. Paying $500K for a player is very sleazy.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Yeah. I can't believe that some of you are still talking about coaching. As if that's our problem.

But here's something you're missing. Just because we have a fund doesn't mean that our administration will use it to pay for great players. They might use it to pay for other sports or for general expenses or something. They've always been against having great football & basketball teams.

In this case...I actually couldn't blame them. Paying $500K for a player is very sleazy.
Click to expand...
I believe that you can flag your donation for a specific sport and Dinkytown Athletes will use it for that specific sport.

You don't even need to go through the org. For example, General Mills could just contract with Garcia (for example) and make him their official college basketball player for Wheaties for 100k including leveraging him for some photos and as a local representative for some meet/greet type events. - not that they would do that but you get the idea.
 


CPTMidnight said:
I believe that you can flag your donation for a specific sport and Dinkytown Athletes will use it for that specific sport.

You don't even need to go through the org. For example, General Mills could just contract with Garcia (for example) and make him their official college basketball player for Wheaties for 100k including leveraging him for some photos and as a local representative for some meet/greet type events. - not that they would do that but you get the idea.
Click to expand...
You mean like the way NIL was supposed to be approached from the beginning? Intriguing...
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Then how did Ben possibly inherit an empty roster when he was hired if the transfer rule wasn't in place until a week later?

As far as NIL, that has far less of an impact than the transfer portal. Players have been going to the highest bidders for decades. The Gophers remain on a level playing field with the majority of the P6 there. There's also many examples of teams who shell out a ton in NIL who missed the NCAA tournament or had an early exit this season and teams that are very successful with little to no NIL.
Click to expand...
My memory isn't great but I believe the rule at the time was a player could transfer without having to sit out if there is a coaching change. Then shortly after Ben was hired it changed to where everyone gets one free transfer regardless of reason.
 


GophersInIowa said:
My memory isn't great but I believe the rule at the time was a player could transfer without having to sit out if there is a coaching change. Then shortly after Ben was hired it changed to where everyone gets one free transfer regardless of reason.
Click to expand...
I don't think so, Carr transferred here after the coach who recruited him at Pitt was fired and had to sit out. There has been an argument in favor of this, but I don't believe it was ever actually a qualifying waiver reason.
 

GopherBlood777 said:
I don't think so, Carr transferred here after the coach who recruited him at Pitt was fired and had to sit out. There has been an argument in favor of this, but I don't believe it was ever actually a qualifying waiver reason.
Click to expand...
Maybe? Carr transferred to MN back in 2018. You might be right in that it was talked about but never implemented.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Maybe? Carr transferred to MN back in 2018. You might be right in that it was talked about but never implemented.
Click to expand...
As I recall, he required a waiver and most similar situations were getting waivers at the time. For the most part, if releasing school agreed, waiver granted. Pitt played hardball and no waiver granted.
 

Holy Man said:
As I recall, he required a waiver and most similar situations were getting waivers at the time. For the most part, if releasing school agreed, waiver granted. Pitt played hardball and no waiver granted.
Click to expand...
Yep. I remember that. I was thinking that after that for like a year they were giving automatic waivers when there was a coaching change. Then they opened up the free transfer for everyone in 2021.

I'm probably wrong.
 

CPTMidnight said:
I believe that you can flag your donation for a specific sport and Dinkytown Athletes will use it for that specific sport.

You don't even need to go through the org. For example, General Mills could just contract with Garcia (for example) and make him their official college basketball player for Wheaties for 100k including leveraging him for some photos and as a local representative for some meet/greet type events. - not that they would do that but you get the idea.
Click to expand...
True. But I think our administration would stick their noses in and make doing this difficult.
 



USAF said:
I think you're just making shit up
Click to expand...
I'm simply speculating. Based on past history.

Do you think we will buy a BB player from another team for $500K or $1M soon? Do you think our administration is soliciting this type of earmark from local businessmen?
 

The whole speech at the beginning of this thread kept saying we need to change, we need to adjust.

Nah, I don’t think so. Might be easier to just use my money on time on the multitude of other entertainment options that don’t expect me to accept an inferior product.
 

WoodburyTim said:
The whole speech at the beginning of this thread kept saying we need to change, we need to adjust.

Nah, I don’t think so. Might be easier to just use my money on time on the multitude of other entertainment options that don’t expect me to accept an inferior product.
Click to expand...
Is that how it came off? Did not mean it to.

People here keep talking about building a foundation, doing it right, local kids, building culture in an amateur college sport. That seems pretty much meaningless at this point.

This April is a free-for-all with teams paying to keep current players, losing kids to higher bidders, making offers to new kids, buckets of cash are exchanging hands.

It goes hard for me too - I miss the college basketball of the 70s and 80s when I was growing up.
 

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