Coaching success

[tjgopher]

What are you getting at? MN doesn't have a long history of successful alumni lining up to coach here. Wisconsin has that and their AD started it all.

Fleck can't hire his son yet, and doesn't have a 2nd generation DC to carry on that tradition like Iowa.

Fleck has been a head coach for 8 seasons. He's 39 and still growing. If Fleck sticks around and continues to build maybe he will grow that type of program.

You don't think that is what Coyle and Fleck are working toward?

Exactly. Fleck has talked almost daily about trying to create cultural sustainability like Iowa. Problem is, it doesn't happen overnight, in fact by definition it is impossible for it to happen overnight. He is quite aware of the issue and his goal is to build the sustainability. He has clearly has had issues keeping D-line coaches and DB coaches.

doesn't have a 2nd generation DC to carry on that tradition like Iowa.

Not sure what you mean here by 2nd generation DC.

 

[tjgopher]

Swing and a miss. A revolving staff gradually degrades recruiting, does not develop players, and is not competitive on a consistent basis. That is failure. winners do not skate all over the place and the rewards follow success. People can say all day that coaches leave for promotions but in our case it is something else driving this. We maintain the same staff and you will see an improved year next year.

It depends. Hayden Fry went to 14 bowls, including 3 Rose Bowls, in a 17-year span and was in national title contention a couple of times. He always had staff members moving on to bigger and better jobs because of that success.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Swing and a miss. A revolving staff gradually degrades recruiting, does not develop players, and is not competitive on a consistent basis. That is failure. winners do not skate all over the place and the rewards follow success. People can say all day that coaches leave for promotions but in our case it is something else driving this. We maintain the same staff and you will see an improved year next year.

Yeah Alabama recruiting has been terrible and getting worse too... What staff member besides (Rob Smith) has not left here for a job that pays more money and closer to their family? So what else is driving it? I think the Kill regime gave us a bad example. I want our coordinators to be so good and envied that they get HC jobs or get plucked by the blue bloods. That means they were successful here. Eventually as we continue to get better, than we can do the plucking, but to truly believe that staffs will not be changing constantly is insane in this day and age.

 

[MplsGopher]

I think more important that keeping the staff, even if that ultimately just means the coordinators, the same over time, is keeping the schemes/playbook/philosophy the same over time.

Iowa and Wisconsin have their identity and their philosophy, on both sides of the ball, well entrenched.


To be honest, I'm not sure if Fleck could give a straightshooting and simple answer about what he wants the philosophy to be on each side of the ball, going forward and over the long run, and why he has chosen those for each side.

 

[Some guy]

Success for any coaching staff is continuity, consistency, longevity and knowledge, pretty much in that order. Captain obvious knows this as we all do. The people who do seem to get this philosophy are Coyle and Fleck. I give all the props deserved for last year and the Bowl win, the energy and excitement. But, we will not and cannot beat Iowa and Wisconsin when it really counts, like it did last year, unless we achieve the above conditions. Beating our rivals is #1 and the rest takes care of itself.
My advice to Coyle and Fleck is to make it a priority to establish the same quality staff profiles and systems our rivals have like I mentioned. Fleck is an elite recruiter and motivator, stick with that and find a staff to coach. Soften up the ego a bit, both guys should do that.

Your first sentence is flat out wrong.
Alabama is unquestionably the most successful college football program of the past 15 years and they have been a revolving door of assistant coaches.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Yeah Alabama recruiting has been terrible and getting worse too... What staff member besides (Rob Smith) has not left here for a job that pays more money and closer to their family? So what else is driving it? I think the Kill regime gave us a bad example. I want our coordinators to be so good and envied that they get HC jobs or get plucked by the blue bloods. That means they were successful here. Eventually as we continue to get better, than we can do the plucking, but to truly believe that staffs will not be changing constantly is insane in this day and age.

Let's be clear what the Kill example is:

Hanging onto Limegrover as OC forever, bad.

Hanging onto TC, good.

It's not all one thing or the other.... and I don't know anyone who was happy with Limegrover late in that timeline. Limegrover & Jerry's RUTM for YEARS not at all like throwing a fit about a down 2020 after 2019.

 

[MplsGopher]

Your first sentence is flat out wrong.
Alabama is unquestionably the most successful college football program of the past 15 years and they have been a revolving door of assistant coaches.

Coaches even go to Alabama to use it to make themselves look good (again), to then get opportunities elsewhere.

Maybe Muschamp will end up there.

 

[MplsGopher]

Let's be clear what the Kill example is:

Hanging onto Limegrover as OC forever, bad.

Hanging onto TC, good.

It's not all one thing or the other.... and I don't know anyone who was happy with Limegrover late in that timeline. Limegrover & Jerry's RUTM for YEARS not at all like throwing a fit about a down 2020 after 2019.

Fleck has no history of hanging onto a coordinator too long.

 

[tjgopher]

Fleck has no history of hanging onto a coordinator too long.

You mean besides hanging onto Kirk Ciarrocca for 7 of his 8 years as a head coach and Rob Wenger for all 8 years as a head coach?

 

[MplsGopher]

You mean besides hanging onto Kirk Ciarrocca for 7 of his 8 years as a head coach and Rob Wenger for all 8 years as a head coach?

*Too* long. What defines *too*, in that sense?

No one says "boy, you sure held onto him for too long" if they do well.


Good point about Wegner, though. I'm not sure our special teams under Fleck have ever been a strong suit? They certainly aren't this year, either.

 

[tjgopher]

*Too* long. What defines *too*, in that sense?

No one says "boy, you sure held onto him for too long" if they do well.


Good point about Wegner, though. I'm not sure our special teams under Fleck have ever been a strong suit? They certainly aren't this year, either.

I missed your point, this was my mistake. I thought you were saying Fleck doesn't have a history of keeping his coordinators very long. I was trying to suggest in his eight-year coaching career, he has held on to them. You were saying something else. I get what you were saying now.

And, now that I understand what you meant, I don't think he held on to Kirk C too long. Wenger, maybe so.

 

[Some guy]

Well the entire body of work is 8 years. So, based on that, Fleck has done fine holding on to the coordinators. Seven years is a long time for any coordinator to stay with any one coach.

I think there is a generational gap when interpreting people moving on.

Some people think we are going to see coaches stay in a place for 35 years like generations of old. Even at the high school level there is a lot more movement than there was even 10 years ago.
Different age, different people, different choices

 

[MplsGopher]

Saban and Dabo can stay as long as they wish, so long as they keep doing what they're doing. Everyone else though ...

I think most movement comes from coaches looking to move up, to a new challenge, or most like it's the school moving on from them.