Coaching Hypothetical

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EasyThere Pilgrim said:
How would this prevent players from leaving for money once they become good?

Are you saying that an experienced coach could put together a completely new team each year...with players that don't command money? And make NCAA runs with these teams.
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Experience is the entire difference. Experience means having dealt with these kinds of situations before and having a much more solid end in mind when putting together a team.

Inexperience is hoping your recruiting pans out and your head coach can manage the team to not be an embarrassment.
 


Ewert86PC said:
Experience is the entire difference. Experience means having dealt with these kinds of situations before and having a much more solid end in mind when putting together a team.

Inexperience is hoping your recruiting pans out and your head coach can manage the team to not be an embarrassment.
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"much more solid end in mind"

As in recruiting lower rated 'diamonds in the rough' that won't go pro or command NIL money? Workman-like...teamwork with no individual stats?

Or do you mean the new coach's charisma will get the players to turn down the money?
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
No one has addressed my question.

How is this a coaching issue? How do you build a winning program?

How do you keep the players from going pro or transferring for money?
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We don’t know that anyone left for money. That’s speculation. No one has left to go pro.
 


EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Payne looking for a $500K/year contract isn't a coaching issue.

Garcia & Christie going pro wouldn't be a coaching issue.

Are you saying that Ben coached these guys up too quickly? Or should have focused on less talented players? How should the new coach navigate this?
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No...but you know that and are just being obtuse because you have no real answer to my question.

Is the fact the team was an NIT squad his fault? If they are the same next year is that his fault?

Weren't you the one saying we need to support Ben because "Clem struggled early" even though all of us were telling you the system doesn't work that way anymore? The idea of that is building a team that will succeed. Now are you saying we have to support Ben because the system is set up that way?

I will ask again...is there anything in your mind we can criticize Ben over?
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
We don’t know that anyone left for money. That’s speculation. No one has left to go pro.
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It's rumored that Payne wants $500K/yr. I think he left for money. But we can wait & see.

If no one leaves, we'd have a very good team.
 


Dave H said:
No...but you know that and are just being obtuse because you have no real answer to my question.

Is the fact the team was an NIT squad his fault? If they are the same next year is that his fault?

Weren't you the one saying we need to support Ben because "Clem struggled early" even though all of us were telling you the system doesn't work that way anymore? The idea of that is building a team that will succeed. Now are you saying we have to support Ben because the system is set up that way?

I will ask again...is there anything in your mind we can criticize Ben over?
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I don't think we should criticize Ben yet.

The only way for a normal coach to succeed at Minnesota...even a good coach like Clem...is to build a team.

If building a team is no longer possible due to money...then there is no hope. Hiring a new coach would be pointless...unless it's a Calipari-type.
 



EasyThere Pilgrim said:
If no one leaves, we'd have a very good team.
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Not yet! - unless you think Ben can add one center and play all 5 starters 40 minutes per game for the entire season.

If all players stay in place, we have four returning starters, one returning reserve who played a grand total of 56 minutes over the season, and two incoming freshman (one of who appears to be a longer term project). I don't expect Fox to return unless Ben manages to talk him out of intended retirement like he did Curry. The coach has a lot of work to do this offseason and he has yet to demonstrate the level of perseverance necessary to acquire a truly satisfactory set of transfers in the offseason.
 

Yeah, in a perfect world, you would prefer to hire a HC with a proven track record of success at the high-major D1 level.

the questions are:
would a coach of that stature want to come to MN?.....and....
would the MN administration be willing to pay a salary big enough to attract that type of coach?

realistically, if/when the MN job becomes open, I think the odds are a lot higher that MN will get more interest from a young "up-and-comer" type who is willing to take on the challenge.

an established coach just doesn't need to take on that type of challenge - unless it's a Tubby situation where it's an older coach on the back half of his career arc who is looking for one more big contract.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Yeah, in a perfect world, you would prefer to hire a HC with a proven track record of success at the high-major D1 level.

the questions are:
would a coach of that stature want to come to MN?.....and....
would the MN administration be willing to pay a salary big enough to attract that type of coach?

realistically, if/when the MN job becomes open, I think the odds are a lot higher that MN will get more interest from a young "up-and-comer" type who is willing to take on the challenge.

an established coach just doesn't need to take on that type of challenge - unless it's a Tubby situation where it's an older coach on the back half of his career arc who is looking for one more big contract.
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McCollum would've and thus no reason to keep Mr. Training Wheels.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
realistically, if/when the MN job becomes open, I think the odds are a lot higher that MN will get more interest from a young "up-and-comer" type who is willing to take on the challenge.
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What is the 'challenge' for a new coach?

Is it getting 5 players that would be better than Garcia, Christie, Hawkins, Mitchell, & Payne would be next year...and convincing them to turn down money?

Is it getting the most out of non-talented players that don't command money?

I STILL haven't heard any specifics.
 



EasyThere Pilgrim said:
It's rumored that Payne wants $500K/yr. I think he left for money. But we can wait & see.

If no one leaves, we'd have a very good team.
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Rumored. Got it. Thats fact now!

Rumor has it Ben told him to hit the road because he's lazy and ugly. Go spread the news.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
What is the 'challenge' for a new coach?

Is it getting 5 players that would be better than Garcia, Christie, Hawkins, Mitchell, & Payne would be next year...and convincing them to turn down money?

Is it getting the most out of non-talented players that don't command money?

I STILL haven't heard any specifics.
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Specifics are always such an aggravation. And yes, if you take your middle two paragraphs they would be the essence of a posting for a new coach!

WANTED: New Head BB coach for the U of M.
Requirements:
-Past success in D1 BB, with preferably several NCAA invites.
-Willing to work for a salary below the market average.
-Able to coerce D1 players with starting position abilities to remain at the U despite a lack of NIL funding equivalent to others in the conference.
-Ability to coach up athletes with a specific set of skills. Skills include, but are not limited to having not enough talent to start, having enough talent to contribute, but not enough talent to viably enter the portal.
-Able to receive commitments on every top level high school player in the state,
regardless of the fact the fulfilling of the above criteria leaves no open
scholarships.
-And finally, a commitment that after several fair to middling seasons, UCLA will not attempt to poach you, requiring the U to enhance your financial package.

Please do not delay in submitting your application. We expect a long list of qualified applicants. Please note the the chosen applicant will likely be judged by how little he is willing to work for!
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
"much more solid end in mind"

As in recruiting lower rated 'diamonds in the rough' that won't go pro or command NIL money? Workman-like...teamwork with no individual stats?

Or do you mean the new coach's charisma will get the players to turn down the money?
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As in self awareness of their coaching and player management skills. Turning down or accepting NIL money is only part of it. Helping a "student-athlete" make good decisions based on their life position and options.
 

Gopheritnow said:
Specifics are always such an aggravation. And yes, if you take your middle two paragraphs they would be the essence of a posting for a new coach!

WANTED: New Head BB coach for the U of M.
Requirements:
-Past success in D1 BB, with preferably several NCAA invites.
-Willing to work for a salary below the market average.
-Able to coerce D1 players with starting position abilities to remain at the U despite a lack of NIL funding equivalent to others in the conference.
-Ability to coach up athletes with a specific set of skills. Skills include, but are not limited to having not enough talent to start, having enough talent to contribute, but not enough talent to viably enter the portal.
-Able to receive commitments on every top level high school player in the state,
regardless of the fact the fulfilling of the above criteria leaves no open
scholarships.
-And finally, a commitment that after several fair to middling seasons, UCLA will not attempt to poach you, requiring the U to enhance your financial package.

Please do not delay in submitting your application. We expect a long list of qualified applicants. Please note the the chosen applicant will likely be judged by how little he is willing to work for!
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This is it right here.

I understand exactly what this board wants now. Thank you.
 

This post show just how wild the Ben Johnson hire was. As I said before Ben Johnson wasn't even the most qualified former Richard Pitino assistant for a potential head coaching position. Kimani has been rumored to be a candidate at places like Fordham and Iona over that past year or two while Ben Johnson has a Big Ten head coaching job. The assistant coaches, who don't take the baton from a retiring coach or a coach leaving for a better job, who go straight to head coaching jobs at the high major level are few and far between. Those who do this have amazing resumes (Jerome Tang almost 20 years at Baylor and a National Championship, Chris Collins a Coach K protege and had to take the Northwestern job which might have been the worst power 5 job at the time are two that come to mind). Someone like Dwayne Stephens spent 19 years on Izzo's staff at MSU and got the head coaching job at...Western Michigan. The resume of Rashon Burno, an ASU assistant coach that beat out Ben Johnson for the Northern Illinois job was better than Ben's.
 

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