Chip Scoggins: U's Pitino getting close to using up his chances

[mplarson7]

Here's a quick look to the model of our conference:

MSU
2015-2016: Eron Harris - Suspended indefinitely for DUI
2014-2015: Kenny Kaminski - Kicked off team for various offenses
2013-2014: Kenny Kaminski - Suspended for multiple incidents
2012-2013: Derrick Nix suspended for drug possession
2011-2012: Korie Lucious kicked off team for various offenses
2010-2011: Chris Allen kicked off team

And outline what has been happening at IU for a few years, and you will have a list that is equivalent or more extensive than this one. The Gophers are not alone.

 

[Bad Gopher]

"Blame falls squarely on the individuals, because they’re adults who know right from wrong."

I'm not sure that's a safe assumption. A lot of these guys grow up in cultures where what we consider anti-social behavior is the norm. And because of their athletic achievements, they're treated like celebrities from an early age and learn they can get away with a lot of things. This whole flap might be a rude awakening for Dorsey.

 

[Blackhammer]

I find this comment inconsistent with the generally-held belief that Jerry Kill won by recruiting high-character kids and building a solid team and lockerroom.

The general premise is great. The point was high character is not a prerequisite to playing great defense.

 

[CentralGopher]

And there you have the problem with the "U".

College athletes are young adults like every other college student and they are going to make mistakes. Unfortunately, they are being asked to be ambassadors for the institution as part of their role, so they will be held to a higher standard. Coaches do need to recruit for character, particularly when they are rebuilding the program and need to put a wall up around their state to retain the best, local talent. Why would a parent want to send their kid to a school that repeatedly has questionable character issues?

Minnesota should get rid of Pitino now and find a coach who understands what it will take to build long term success. There is no reason that Minnesota should not be competitive in basketball every single year.

If you think it is only a U problem you have some mighty big blinders on.

 

[bottlebass]

C'mon. You guys all just sound a little jealous your college experience wasn't up to par with these guys'. "It looks bad for the university" wah wah wahhhh. It's college, people have sex in college. Sometimes with multiple people. Just because you never got the chance to Eiffel Tower a girl doesn't mean no one should have that chance. Should it have been video taped? In my view no, but I know lots of people who make videos. Should it have been posted to twitter? In my view no, but there are lots of people who do that too.

The coach took immediate disciplinary action. I'm assuming he will run them into the ground if they are going to stay on the team (like in that Coach Carter movie). People make mistakes. That is how we learn. The important thing is if they learned from their mistake and can go on with their life. Unless it comes out they did not have consent to film the female who cares? I wish I had a few videos of certain nights freshman year of college. Co-ed dorms were miraculous.

 

[Bad Gopher]

C'mon. You guys all just sound a little jealous your college experience wasn't up to par with these guys'.

That's not it at all. What happened in the dorm room down the hall in my freshman year wasn't my concern. When it threatens to deep six my favorite athletic program - the one I support with my season ticket purchase - that's when it becomes my business. This is not a live-and-let-live situation.

 

[bottlebass]

That's not it at all. What happened in the dorm room down the hall in my freshman year wasn't my concern. When it threatens to deep six my favorite athletic program - the one I support with my season ticket purchase - that's when it becomes my business. This is not a live-and-let-live situation.

Why should it deep six your favorite athletic program is what I'm saying. Everyone is freaking out, where is the evidence they broke any kind of law? I didn't see the video, were they using condoms? Maybe we should all be congratulating them on practicing safe sex?

 

[Bad Gopher]

Why should it deep six your favorite athletic program is what I'm saying. Everyone is freaking out, where is the evidence they broke any kind of law? I didn't see the video, were they using condoms? Maybe we should all be congratulating them on practicing safe sex?

Because my favorite athletic program holds itself and its players to a higher standard than those people down the hall. It's the moral standard that the regents and president and public and alumni largely want them to espouse. There's always a customer or benefactor and always accountability to them.

 

[Minnesconsin fan]

Yeah and it's not a "toss-up" question. Madison has let their coaches Alvarez, B.B. an now possibly Bo Ryan run a little wild, but their players for the most part have been pretty well behaved.

Maybe the U should hire guys that have sex with co-eds but make sure their players don't.

It certainly has worked for the Badgers.

i heard a few years ago that one of the prime Badger recruits that was also being heavily recruited by North Carolina and a few other of the blue bloods, got a minor consumption ticket on his official recruiting visit to Madison. That sounds like a character red flag but it didn't stop anyone from recruiting him and it certainly didn't stop Bo from signing him.

I was complaining about my 14 year old once to a friend that has kids in their mid to late 20's and he said not to worry too much yet- their actions will disappoint you more when they start drinking and stop thinking.

 

[bottlebass]

Because my favorite athletic program holds itself and its players to a higher standard than those people down the hall. It's the moral standard that the regents and president and public and alumni largely want them to espouse. There's always a customer or benefactor and always accountability to them.

Good luck recruiting kids here with rules like a private christian college. No sex, no you can't even dance with a girl, its FORBIDDEN! I'm sorry but anybody who thinks college basketball players aren't allowed to have sexual relations because they are part of a basketball program is extremely out of touch with reality.

 

[The Lorax]

Here's the point: What they did? Who cares. Videotaping it? really stupid. Tweeting the video? Even dumber

 

[Bad Gopher]

Good luck recruiting kids here with rules like a private christian college. No sex, no you can't even dance with a girl, its FORBIDDEN! I'm sorry but anybody who thinks college basketball players aren't allowed to have sexual relations because they are part of a basketball program is extremely out of touch with reality.

Again, do you really think that this is what it's about? Obviously this isn't BYU. The issue, in case you haven't been paying attention, is that he allegedly did something very stupid - recorded the orgy and broadcast it to the public, apparently without the permission of everyone involved.

 

[Otis]

Because my favorite athletic program holds itself and its players to a higher standard than those people down the hall. It's the moral standard that the regents and president and public and alumni largely want them to espouse. There's always a customer or benefactor and always accountability to them.

As a two-time graduate of Minnesota (no joke intended), I would be willing to sacrifice a few standards in order to have a better athletic program. However, my moral compass compels me to relax those standards with regards to admittance for academics and not moral decency. Posting XXX videos on your twitter page is pretty damn bad!

Look at what hitting his child with a switch did for Adrian. The Governor called for the Vikings to suspend him. If we keep this guy on campus, how easy will it be able to raise funds for the new facilities? From a PR perspective, he most likely has to go.

 

[tmvander]

Good luck recruiting kids here with rules like a private christian college. No sex, no you can't even dance with a girl, its FORBIDDEN! I'm sorry but anybody who thinks college basketball players aren't allowed to have sexual relations because they are part of a basketball program is extremely out of touch with reality.

I don't think it is the sex thing it is the fact that it got posted online when (according to others) there was already a strict social media thing going on with the team. I highly doubt a coach comes right out and says "no sex while you play sports here" but I'm sure there is a speech about being careful when making those decisions. This wasn't being careful. I have no problem with the suspension.

These guys now know that the entire world has access to learn about what happened, their parents and family likely know what happened, and everyone on campus knows what happened. Embarrassment aside they let their team down. I think the punishment is good enough now lets move on.

 

[StCroix]

Here's the point: What they did? Who cares. Videotaping it? really stupid. Tweeting the video? Even dumber

Very true. Lapse in judgment that virtually everyone has at this age. VERY dumb. BUT, IMO, as long as no laws are broken, I don't see how you dismiss them.

That being said, I am very disappointed that this has to be a distraction just when it appeared we were starting to turn the corner.

Interesting, if this had been pre-smartphone, social media, more than likely, NO ONE would have known this happened unless it became a legal issue.

 

[dtrain19]

People are giving their opinions on what should or should not be done to the three players and that's fine. But, once again, not one of us know what all the details are or what exactly happened. To me that's irresponsible. Go Gophers!

 

[Blackhammer]

It's a Minnesota thing. The morally superior state where scandals grow like a cancer and never die no matter how minor. About now Dayton is do to weigh in from his Weekend at Bernies corpse state and call for banishment for all. lol Then when the pitchfork nation is done with this we can go picket that dentist's office who killed that lion. These kids acted like knuckleheads but enough already.

 

[tmvander]

Very true. Lapse in judgment that virtually everyone has at this age. VERY dumb. BUT, IMO, as long as no laws are broken, I don't see how you dismiss them.

That being said, I am very disappointed that this has to be a distraction just when it appeared we were starting to turn the corner.

Interesting, if this had been pre-smartphone, social media, more than likely, NO ONE would have known this happened unless it became a legal issue.

The only problem with the bolded is that I'm sure guys have been dismissed for less (relative term depending on your moral values). I don't know if anyone still knows the details on Carlos Morris but was what he did worse than posting a sex video to social media? Maybe yes and maybe no.

My point is this is scary considering there have been players that have been dismissed from teams for things such as whining over playing time, arguing with a coach or player, or just partying in general.

 

[jovs]

Yeah and it's not a "toss-up" question. Madison has let their coaches Alvarez, B.B. an now possibly Bo Ryan run a little wild, but their players for the most part have been pretty well behaved.

Maybe the U should hire guys that have sex with co-eds but make sure their players don't.

It certainly has worked for the Badgers.

Love it, this recent issue with the Gopher is such a nit, who cares what players do in there own bed room as long as it is consensual, they are adults.

 

[bottlebass]

Again, do you really think that this is what it's about? Obviously this isn't BYU. The issue, in case you haven't been paying attention, is that he allegedly did something very stupid - recorded the orgy and broadcast it to the public, apparently without the permission of everyone involved.

DING DING DING to the bold and pure speculation on the underline. No one knows these facts except the people involved and maybe the coach. So again, stop freaking out from your moral high ground. Some people like to have fun in college.

 

[Bad Gopher]

DING DING DING to the bold and pure speculation on the underline. No one knows these facts except the people involved and maybe the coach. So again, stop freaking out from your moral high ground. Some people like to have fun in college.

We don't disagree, and I'm not speaking from moral high ground. My exploits would make a best-selling book, and I'm not kidding. I have it outlined already.

 

[JCK]

Unfortunately, sometimes it requires opportunity to test character. My guess is that at least two of these kids have been on the straight and narrow up to now. They have been busy playing BB most of their young lives. College is usually were women and alcohol become more available. Most of you pundits must think these guys have a track record. I would think it is tougher than one would think to examine character at this young age.

 

[FanSinceTheFifties]

Give me a break! Name a coach at the U who hasn't had discipline problems or academic issues. Name one who hasn't reached for a kid with questionable character to improve the team.

I'll be waiting.

Is that an endorsement of this practice?

 

[Holy Man]

Unfortunately, sometimes it requires opportunity to test character. My guess is that at least two of these kids have been on the straight and narrow up to now. They have been busy playing BB most of their young lives. College is usually were women and alcohol become more available. Most of you pundits must think these guys have a track record. I would think it is tougher than one would think to examine character at this young age.

Very true, but it's not a crap shoot, either. A few things one can examine are families of origin, the discipline in the programs they come from, and the reputation the player has earned outside the area of basketball. If the kid has been appropriately disciplined for previous transgressions, he has a good shot of not doing them in the future, too. Too many struggling families, too many programs that are undisciplined, and not enough accountability for these guys in non sports areas of their lives make for a cocktail of possible behavior problems. Present a kid who can play, does his homework, and takes his turn doing dishes and doing some non-basketball community service, and I'll give you a decent prediction that he is likely to stay out of extreme trouble in college.

 

[dex8425]

Like Nate Mason? He was his high school valedictorian.

 

[Blackhammer]

Very true, but it's not a crap shoot, either. A few things one can examine are families of origin, the discipline in the programs they come from, and the reputation the player has earned outside the area of basketball. If the kid has been appropriately disciplined for previous transgressions, he has a good shot of not doing them in the future, too. Too many struggling families, too many programs that are undisciplined, and not enough accountability for these guys in non sports areas of their lives make for a cocktail of possible behavior problems. Present a kid who can play, does his homework, and takes his turn doing dishes and doing some non-basketball community service, and I'll give you a decent prediction that he is likely to stay out of extreme trouble in college.

Gopher football player Dominic Jones was an outstanding athlete, student and leader in High School. Look at what happened in his case. And then in many cases you see high risk kids who turn into great students and great members of the community. So yes it is a crap shoot many times.

 

[minny01]

DING DING DING to the bold and pure speculation on the underline. No one knows these facts except the people involved and maybe the coach. So again, stop freaking out from your moral high ground. Some people like to have fun in college.

Completely agree with you. As of now, we don't know the facts about what happened. It does not appear that there is any criminal case being investigated. I do find it hard to believe that a kid, who had not posted on twitter since the season started because of team rules, would all of a sudden put this out there and think that it would be ok.

 

[Blackhammer]

Perhaps if we limited our recruiting to the Wally Cleavers and Theo Huxtables of the world we wouldn't have any problems.

 

[BarnBurner]

It's a Minnesota thing. The morally superior state where scandals grow like a cancer and never die no matter how minor. About now Dayton is do to weigh in from his Weekend at Bernies corpse state and call for banishment for all. lol Then when the pitchfork nation is done with this we can go picket that dentist's office who killed that lion. These kids acted like knuckleheads but enough already.

Bingo.

 

[GoodasGold]

It's a Minnesota thing. The morally superior state where scandals grow like a cancer and never die no matter how minor. About now Dayton is do to weigh in from his Weekend at Bernies corpse state and call for banishment for all. lol Then when the pitchfork nation is done with this we can go picket that dentist's office who killed that lion. These kids acted like knuckleheads but enough already.

Absolutely right! I'm still trying to get my head around Jon Grunseth in the swimming pool.