Chip on Gophers: Pitino never connected with MN HS and AAU coaches; first two calls should be Beilein and Musselman; can't let Marquette get Garcia

[BleedGopher]

Chip was on with Judd:

- A change is going to happen. They'll wait until after the BTT. Short of winning that thing they won't get in NCAA Tournament.
- It will be interesting to see if they go after Beilein or Mussleman. They have the money to do it.
- My first two calls would be Musselman and Beilein. Make them tell me no.
- Medved will be a name. Smith will be a name. Their names will pop up.
- Coyle is a guy in the background but he's aggressive in hiring and firing. He gets the person he goes after (cites Fleck, Whalen and Motzko)
- The crowd that was angry with Coyle for dropping sports will give him some blowback.
- The buyout will likely come from a booster.
- Musselman will be the big name. Arkansas will do everything they can to keep him.
- There is a lot of untapped potential here, but also some challenges.
- Tre, Tyus, Jalen and Chet will not stay here. But you cannot take Jelly over Wright. You can't let Marquette get Garcia over you. You can't let that happen. It doesn't have to be all Minnesota kids but you can't miss on some of these kids. There's been too many misses here.
- You've got the facilities now, you're in a state where basketball is really good.
- For whatever reason, Pitino's personality did not click with the local HS and AAU coaches. There is not a connection there.

Conduits of Trouble: “It’s time to move on, it’s time for a change” – SKOR North

Star Tribune sports columnist Chip Scoggins joins Judd to discuss why Kyle Rudolph left Kirk Cousins' name out of his "thank you" note to Minnesota and the Viki

www.skornorth.com

Go Gophers!!

 

[Spottedmuskie]

The last bullet point; I don't think he really clicks with anyone. I've met him a few times and he has a cockiness/arrogance about him. Always felt like he was too good Minnesota and would use it as a stepping stone to coach at Kentucky, Lousiville, Duke or whatever. If a recruit would doubt or 2nd guess Minnesota, then Pintino would blow em off giving off a sense of "we don't need you" and he's onto the next one. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, I'm sure he's a good Dad and all that, but I'm not surprised if his personality clashed with coaches and recruits.

 

[Dano564]

On the recruits we didn't get, it didn't seem like we were close.
I don't know how I'm measuring that, but it just seems like that was the case.
Just my perception I guess.

 

[bigyetti18]

The last bullet point; I don't think he really clicks with anyone. I've met him a few times and he has a cockiness/arrogance about him. Always felt like he was too good Minnesota and would use it as a stepping stone to coach at Kentucky, Lousiville, Duke or whatever. If a recruit would doubt or 2nd guess Minnesota, then Pintino would blow em off giving off a sense of "we don't need you" and he's onto the next one. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, I'm sure he's a good Dad and all that, but I'm not surprised if his personality clashed with coaches and recruits.

Being arrogant/cocky is fine if you can back it up with performance. Reusse summed it up best in an article he wrote back in 2014 saying something along the lines of, "He walks on the sidelines pretending to know what a B1G coach looks like, however you don't see much coaching coming out of him"

 

[Bad Gopher]

That's a complete, fair and balanced bulleted list, as you'd expect from Chip.

The recruiting problems and the part about not connecting with local entities: that's a fatal flaw. Who can survive anywhere in any profession without connections and relationships? I know that a good piece of what I do involves a professional/social network. (Some of my national colleagues are my most treasured friends.)

He was hired largely in the hope/belief that he would be an ace recruiter, largely due to his personality and age--that it would allow him to break through and exploit the increase in talent in the region. Just look back at the articles and Gopherhole posts from then if you doubt that. It was also based on the hope that he was a coaching prodigy. Hearing the accounts now of what's essentially malpractice--not building a network of relationships, not attending games, not working as diligently as even more established coaches--this impending dismissal is way overdue.

Oh, and lastly, IF Musselman is interested, as Reusse reported, and IF they have the money, as Chip says, let's get it done. Arkansas will fight like hell to keep him, so it comes down to who wants the 50/50 ball the most. We expect our athletes to outwork the other team for 50/50 balls; we should expect the same of U administration.

 

[Gopherfan84]

The last bullet point; I don't think he really clicks with anyone. I've met him a few times and he has a cockiness/arrogance about him. Always felt like he was too good Minnesota and would use it as a stepping stone to coach at Kentucky, Lousiville, Duke or whatever. If a recruit would doubt or 2nd guess Minnesota, then Pintino would blow em off giving off a sense of "we don't need you" and he's onto the next one. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, I'm sure he's a good Dad and all that, but I'm not surprised if his personality clashed with coaches and recruits.

The HS and AAU folks didn’t like Monson or Smith either. At some point they are also the issue and it’s not all on Pitino. I do agree it seemed Pitino was starting to get outworked and the staff didn’t do enough homework to create what a MN player was like Purdue and Wisconsin do.

 

[Gopher Teeth]

[

The HS and AAU folks didn’t like Monson or Smith either. At some point they are also the issue and it’s not all on Pitino. I do agree it seemed Pitino was starting to get outwork and the staff didn’t do enough homework to create what a MN player was like Purdue and Wisconsin do.

If your coaches are getting outworked, then how can we be surprised when their respective teams get outworked? Of all criticisms that one bothers me the worst about a coach.

 

[Gopherfan84]

If your coaches are getting outworked, then how can we be surprised when their respective teams get outworked? Of all criticisms that one bothers me the worst about a coach.

I agree. I know it was touched on in another thread, but being a young “go getter” that’s trying to prove he got this job out of merit instead on his name makes it even worse

 

[PMWinSTP]

The last bullet point; I don't think he really clicks with anyone. I've met him a few times and he has a cockiness/arrogance about him. Always felt like he was too good Minnesota and would use it as a stepping stone to coach at Kentucky, Lousiville, Duke or whatever. If a recruit would doubt or 2nd guess Minnesota, then Pintino would blow em off giving off a sense of "we don't need you" and he's onto the next one. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, I'm sure he's a good Dad and all that, but I'm not surprised if his personality clashed with coaches and recruits.

When I met him, he was very personable, conversational and relaxed.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

It would extremely interesting to know the real reasons why MM recruits shunned RP. This would make an excellent story if some ambitious writer could get the facts and get in the head of these kids. Invite them to the local watering hole and feed them lots of “truth serum”!

 

[MplsGopher]

Not saying I don't believe it ....... but man ... you're saying Garcia wanted to be a Gopher and Pitino just didn't try??

That is plain hard to swallow. No way he can get to this level and just be that incompetent, it would have to be a conscious decision?

So either part of the story is missing here, or someone is giving some revisionist history about what actually happened.

 

[Tucker32]

If your coaches are getting outworked, then how can we be surprised when their respective teams get outworked? Of all criticisms that one bothers me the worst about a coach.

This is always going to be hard as knowing some of them, they get "insulted" if the U coaches don't want every player they recommend. No matter the coach at any school, that is never going to be the case, and if that is the approach they are going to take it will always be difficult.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Not saying I don't believe it ....... but man ... you're saying Garcia wanted to be a Gopher and Pitino just didn't try??

That is plain hard to swallow. No way he can get to this level and just be that incompetent, it would have to be a conscious decision?

So either part of the story is missing here, or someone is giving some revisionist history about what actually happened.

Stan Johnson is a straight grinder and he’s the reason Dawson ended up in Marquette no doubt. I agree though some are acting like Pitino didn’t even try and that can’t be/isn’t true.

 

[PMWinSTP]

This is always going to be hard as knowing some of them, they get "insulted" if the U coaches don't want every player they recommend. No matter the coach at any school, that is never going to be the case, and if that is the approach they are going to take it will always be difficult.

I think when you only have 3-5 spots a year, you have to be able to convey that and maintain a good relationship.

 

[MplsGopher]

Say you're Dawson. You really want to be a Gopher.

But .... Marquette's head coach visited your mom, at her work. OK? And?

I guess you can try to argue that if you can win over the parent(s), they can argue on your behalf to the kid.

 

[Cayman]

This is always going to be hard as knowing some of them, they get "insulted" if the U coaches don't want every player they recommend. No matter the coach at any school, that is never going to be the case, and if that is the approach they are going to take it will always be difficult.

I have noticed pattern that, even if it’s not particularly early on, Pitino seems to give a scholarship offer to every single high major caliber player that the state of Minnesota produces, even in weird cases like with Brad Davison where the staff supposedly was out of contact with him for awhile, and then for some reason offered just a few days before he committed to Wisconsin. When Tubby was here there were a couple players here and there that went to high majors and never got an offer from the Gophers. Does Pitino feel pressured to extend offers to players he doesn’t even particularly want, just for the sake of keeping coaches happy, leading to a lower hit rate on in-state players, and an increased perception that he’s half-assing the recruitment of Minnesota kids?

 

[Cayman]

Being arrogant/cocky is fine if you can back it up with performance. Reusse summed it up best in an article he wrote back in 2014 saying something along the lines of, "He walks on the sidelines pretending to know what a B1G coach looks like, however you don't see much coaching coming out of him"

Has Minnesota had a coach that Reusse liked in either football or basketball? My recollection is he hated Brewster from the day he was hired, didn’t like Tubby, condescendingly refers to Pitino as Lil Ritchie or something, thinks Fleck is a bozo/blowhard/used car salesman. Maybe he gave some credit to Kill/Claeys for their better seasons? Idk Reusse having a negative opinion on a Gopher coach feels like par for the course.

 

[WriterGoph]

I wish Musselman's agent was NOT creating this "interested" narrative. It's just gonna ruin things for some of our fans when he is not the guy. I am just not buying that there is any actual reality that he is leaving Arkansas to come here.

Lets talk about real candidates.

 

[bigyetti18]

Has Minnesota had a coach that Reusse liked in either football or basketball? My recollection is he hated Brewster from the day he was hired, didn’t like Tubby, condescendingly refers to Pitino as Lil Ritchie or something, thinks Fleck is a bozo/blowhard/used car salesman. Maybe he gave some credit to Kill/Claeys for their better seasons? Idk Reusse having a negative opinion on a Gopher coach feels like par for the course.

It sure seems not! I wish the beat writers would have more insight. Does Fuller really provide anything?

 

[Some guy]

Reporters fretting about the buyout two weeks ago now reporting we have the money to get the big boys.

They’re like weather people

 

[Bad Gopher]

Not saying I don't believe it ....... but man ... you're saying Garcia wanted to be a Gopher and Pitino just didn't try??

That is plain hard to swallow. No way he can get to this level and just be that incompetent, it would have to be a conscious decision?

So either part of the story is missing here, or someone is giving some revisionist history about what actually happened.

I'd like to know the truth. All I know for a fact is that the Gophers were slow to recognize him and offer him. I was wondering why we weren't on him back when he was still 4-star rated; then Texas became the first major to offer him. I was mad about that then and still wonder how it could have played out differently.

 

[Tucker32]

I think when you only have 3-5 spots a year, you have to be able to convey that and maintain a good relationship.

Agree. However, the relationship goes both ways and when one side thinks you should offer every player they believe you should it makes it hard. If they get their feelings hurt and write you off because you disagree with your assessment it's hard. Relationships go two ways.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Has Minnesota had a coach that Reusse liked in either football or basketball? My recollection is he hated Brewster from the day he was hired, didn’t like Tubby, condescendingly refers to Pitino as Lil Ritchie or something, thinks Fleck is a bozo/blowhard/used car salesman. Maybe he gave some credit to Kill/Claeys for their better seasons? Idk Reusse having a negative opinion on a Gopher coach feels like par for the course.

He recognized Holtz as the big time talent he was but still made fun of him and denigrated him. Maybe he's just an asshole.

 

[howeda7]

Has Minnesota had a coach that Reusse liked in either football or basketball? My recollection is he hated Brewster from the day he was hired, didn’t like Tubby, condescendingly refers to Pitino as Lil Ritchie or something, thinks Fleck is a bozo/blowhard/used car salesman. Maybe he gave some credit to Kill/Claeys for their better seasons? Idk Reusse having a negative opinion on a Gopher coach feels like par for the course.

I think he genuinely liked Claeys and at least respected Kill, even if he thought the "Country Jer" part was an act (it was.). He liked Clem.

I don't really recall him disliking Tubby. He hated Brew and doesn't like Fleck for sure.

 

[DanvilleGopher]

Stan Johnson is a straight grinder and he’s the reason Dawson ended up in Marquette no doubt. I agree though some are acting like Pitino didn’t even try and that can’t be/isn’t true.

I think there is a big difference between 'trying' and doing 'all in your power' short of cheating. He has a 'name'... helps him get in the door (nothing wrong with that) for sure. It's on him after that to close the deal and me thinks this is where things go flat.. he can't do it, doesn't try hard enough or just flat out gives up when he doesn't get the reception he feels he deserves.

 

[7866Fan]

Pitino's problem with AAU/Coaches is the result of not offering McKinley Wright, and the bad blood it created with D1 Minnesota.

 

[Go Gophs]

The HS and AAU folks didn’t like Monson or Smith either. At some point they are also the issue and it’s not all on Pitino. I do agree it seemed Pitino was starting to get outworked and the staff didn’t do enough homework to create what a MN player was like Purdue and Wisconsin do.

This is not the fault of the club coaches or organizations. It is the fault of the University 100%. Make the right hire, win some games, then you will get the kids you want here. Monson was terrible, Smith was done after about 2 years and Pitino had no experience yet you wanted him to lead a team in the best conference in the land.

I get what you are saying, but if you have a high end kid in your program, what makes you look better? Sending him to Wisconsin or Michigan State where they compete for conference titles, or sending them to the U, watching them stagnate their growth and play on bottom 5 teams?

That's why I've said, whoever comes here, if they are to be successful. At first, they must win more with less. It is just the way it is. This is not a destination for top recruits. Heck, it is not a destination the top half or 1/3 of D1 basketball recruits. Create a culture and grind until you can win some and then it will start to happen with more talent coming.

 

[Go Gophs]

Not saying I don't believe it ....... but man ... you're saying Garcia wanted to be a Gopher and Pitino just didn't try??

That is plain hard to swallow. No way he can get to this level and just be that incompetent, it would have to be a conscious decision?

So either part of the story is missing here, or someone is giving some revisionist history about what actually happened.

See that is the thing. He didn't "get to this level". His dad did. He hasn't proven he can coach even a high school team yet. It's called a silver spoon and he has been fed from it.

Winning half of your games in a poor conference can happen to anyone. I bet you could do it if you had as much time as they get to recruit and work with players.

 

[Gopherfan84]

This is not the fault of the club coaches or organizations. It is the fault of the University 100%. Make the right hire, win some games, then you will get the kids you want here. Monson was terrible, Smith was done after about 2 years and Pitino had no experience yet you wanted him to lead a team in the best conference in the land.

I get what you are saying, but if you have a high end kid in your program, what makes you look better? Sending him to Wisconsin or Michigan State where they compete for conference titles, or sending them to the U, watching them stagnate their growth and play on bottom 5 teams?

There is a difference in sending kids to better programs and not getting along with the Gophers coach continually. Your argument about being better resulting in more wanting to stay home is also true. I’m not saying it’s even 50-50 fault, but neither side is free of fault.

 

[Northeastgopher]

Could it be that the reason he didn’t get Minnesota recruits is that they/ their AAU coaches could tell Pitino was a bad coach? I’d imagine if people on this board could complain for years it was probably more apparent to people that actually play and coach at a high level.